Bill “Papa” Lee Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 I don't understand; what "has happened to so many in the church"?I fear as the scriptures indicate, they seek the praise of man. I just hope I am wrong...which I am a lot.
The Nehor Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 I fear as the scriptures indicate, they seek the praise of man. I just hope I am wrong...which I am a lot.Do you mean that in the original sense intended or in a "praise of hot men know what I mean, wink wink nudge nudge say no more" kind of way?
tyler90az Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Depending on what tax bracket you are in and if you are able to itemize. A great many pay tithes and offerings and get no deduction.Again I ask, have you refused your deduction for tithes and offerings?Then that is not 10% you are paying 7% tithing.
USU78 Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Only for about 16 years. That's not very long.Long enough for the Mormon stink to attach.
tyler90az Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 I agree, the Patriot Act and Citizens United were both greater indicators of a downward spiral.Amen.
tyler90az Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 That is Egalitarian Elitism. The WORST KIND! That is subjective, prove it with objective facts then that statement may hold some. You also need to prove to me how that is a true paradox. As you and I both know Egalitarianism and elitism are polar opposites themselves. So, in sum, what the heck are you talking about?
ERayR Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 I am like the polar opposite of an elitist I believe everyone is entitled to the same treatment.Good. That being the case you might want to check the tone of some of your posts.
tyler90az Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Truth is truth is truth is truth. I will try to check the tone though.
Stone holm Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Has anyone read the full Church news release? What is hitting the media appears to either be being taken out of context or it was badly bungled. Does anyone have the full text.?
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Do you mean that in the original sense intended or in a "praise of hot men know what I mean, wink wink nudge nudge say no more" kind of way?No not "hot men"...ekk
USU78 Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 For every ten you get 3 back?Here is the issue on that: Our SCOTUS has ruled (in the XVIIIth Century) that the power to tax is the power to destroy. This arose in a dispute on the taxability of bonds issued by one jurisdiction by another jurisdiction. Because of that ruling, there are such things as [federal] tax-free bonds issued by states, counties and cities and such. The issue presented because the ability of a local jurisdiction to borrow affected its ability to do business; indeed, its very existence as a going concern could be at risk if people couldn't invest their money in bonds issued by the local entity free of taxation. Its cash flows were at risk, and the SCOTUS stopped that risk: to tax the investor is indirectly to tax the city. Cannot do it.When it comes to religion, the same reasoning applies: if the US can tax a religion, it can destroy the religion. This is impermissible. Same thing with tithes and such: they must be treated the same as municipal bonds; i.e., the sovereign cannot tax the tithes because that tax would be an indirect tax on the church. Cannot do it.Of course, such niceties evaporate when its only Mormons . . . and their antagonists are media pets. 3
tyler90az Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 (edited) Has anyone read the full Church news release? What is hitting the media appears to either be being taken out of context or it was badly bungled. Does anyone have the full text.?Salt Lake City —The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released the following statement today regarding the decisions announced by the United States Supreme Court on cases involving marriage:"By ruling that supporters of Proposition 8 lacked standing to bring this case to court, the Supreme Court has highlighted troubling questions about how our democratic and judicial system operates. Many Californians will wonder if there is something fundamentally wrong when their government will not defend or protect a popular vote that reflects the views of a majority of their citizens. "In addition, the effect of the ruling is to raise further complex jurisdictional issues that will need to be resolved."Regardless of the court decision, the Church remains irrevocably committed to strengthening traditional marriage between a man and a woman, which for thousands of years has proven to be the best environment for nurturing children. Notably, the court decision does not change the definition of marriage in nearly three-fourths of the states." Edited June 26, 2013 by tyler90az
USU78 Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 I agree, the Patriot Act and Citizens United were both greater indicators of a downward spiral.CU exposed the corruption of congress: you cannot raise money; only I can raise money. You cannot speak; only I may speak.
ERayR Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Then that is not 10% you are paying 7% tithing.Get you head together and read for comprehension, Not everybody itemizes deductions and so do not get any deduction and even more are not in the 30% bracket so their deduction is much less. In deference to full disclosure I do not itemize so I get no tax advantage for tithes and offerings.
Stone holm Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Salt Lake City —The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released the following statement today regarding the decisions announced by the United States Supreme Court on cases involving marriage:"By ruling that supporters of Proposition 8 lacked standing to bring this case to court, the Supreme Court has highlighted troubling questions about how our democratic and judicial system operates. Many Californians will wonder if there is something fundamentally wrong when their government will not defend or protect a popular vote that reflects the views of a majority of their citizens. "In addition, the effect of the ruling is to raise further complex jurisdictional issues that will need to be resolved."Regardless of the court decision, the Church remains irrevocably committed to strengthening traditional marriage between a man and a woman, which for thousands of years has proven to be the best environment for nurturing children. Notably, the court decision does not change the definition of marriage in nearly three-fourths of the states."Yeah, I was afraid that it might be true. The news media is zeroing in on the first sentence which is being taken as an attack on our system of government. The last two sentences would have been sufficient, or better yet it should have been left to the Evangelicals and the Catholics to self-brand themselves.
Bikeemikey Posted June 26, 2013 Author Posted June 26, 2013 (edited) Salt Lake City —The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released the following statement today regarding the decisions announced by the United States Supreme Court on cases involving marriage:"By ruling that supporters of Proposition 8 lacked standing to bring this case to court, the Supreme Court has highlighted troubling questions about how our democratic and judicial system operates. Many Californians will wonder if there is something fundamentally wrong when their government will not defend or protect a popular vote that reflects the views of a majority of their citizens. "In addition, the effect of the ruling is to raise further complex jurisdictional issues that will need to be resolved."Regardless of the court decision, the Church remains irrevocably committed to strengthening traditional marriage between a man and a woman, which for thousands of years has proven to be the best environment for nurturing children. Notably, the court decision does not change the definition of marriage in nearly three-fourths of the states."Unfortunately the Church response is again written from the pejorative position that all mormons are americans. The phrase "our democratic and judicial system" is not actually "our" system for most mormons.The ruling didn't change the definition of marriage in any State, though my math may be hazy. Edited June 26, 2013 by Bikeemikey 1
The Nehor Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Truth is truth is truth is truth. I will try to check the tone though.Ah, a fellow tautology club member. 4
Stone holm Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Ah, a fellow tautology club member.Haven't heard that word in a while. Madison said that the 10th Amendment was merely a tautology. Appears that Justice Kennedy doesn't agree.
Stone holm Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Unfortunately the Church response is again written from the pejorative position that all mormons are americans. The phrase "our democratic and judicial system" is not actually "our" system for most mormons.The ruling didn't change the definition of marriage in any State, though my math may be hazy.Uh Bikeemikey you might want to edit the title so it doesn't read Us instead of US.
tyler90az Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 (edited) Yeah, I was afraid that it might be true. The news media is zeroing in on the first sentence which is being taken as an attack on our system of government. The last two sentences would have been sufficient, or better yet it should have been left to the Evangelicals and the Catholics to self-brand themselves.I am a bit heated up right now so forgive me all.When I first read the statement it read like it was written by bitter people who wasted time and money. It really is an embarrassment and goes so far as to question our governments legitimacy. Somebody needed to take a breath before they wrote that or collaborated on that statement. Edited June 26, 2013 by tyler90az
ERayR Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 (edited) I am a bit heated up right now so forgive me all.When I first read the statement it read like it was written by bitter people who wasted time and money. It really is an embarrassment and goes so far as to question are governments legitimacy. Somebody needed to take a breath before they wrote that or collaborated on that statement.And I think it is right on.Edited to add: Is this one of those times when it would have been alright to obfuscate? Edited June 26, 2013 by ERayR
Stone holm Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 I am a bit heated up right now so forgive me all.When I first read the statement it read like it was written by bitter people who wasted time and money. It really is an embarrassment and goes so far as to question are governments legitimacy. Somebody needed to take a breath before they wrote that or collaborated on that statement.Yeah I agree. This was not a graceful response and paints the Church and as a consequence all Mormons in a very bad light.
The Nehor Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 That is subjective, prove it with objective facts then that statement may hold some. You also need to prove to me how that is a true paradox. As you and I both know Egalitarianism and elitism are polar opposites themselves. So, in sum, what the heck are you talking about?I counter that until you prove the validity of reason such an exercise would be pointless.
Bikeemikey Posted June 26, 2013 Author Posted June 26, 2013 Uh Bikeemikey you might want to edit the title so it doesn't read Us instead of US.Don't think I can :-(
california boy Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 War is politics by other means, according to von Clausewitz.The Mann, Morrill and Edmonds-Tucker Acts were war by other means. War against Mormons and the Mormon Church.I happen to agree with you that the Edmonds-Tucker Act was a miscarriage of justice. I do however have a question for you. Do you wish that the church could have continued to practice polygamy including in our lifetime? Do you hope that the church will one day be again allowed to practice polygamy?
Recommended Posts