Power And Control

[Bernard Gui]

A Lexus commercial is causing heads to turn-not at the spiffy car but at the statement, "the ultimate expression of power is control." Granted, it's ostensibly about the power of the car's motor, but there are hints of the relationship between control and power in other areas of life.

Is control the ultimate expression of power?

http://lexusenthusiast.com/2013/02/28/new-lexus-gs-commercial-synchronized/

Edited May 25, 2013 by Bernard Gui

[tyler90az]

Power and control for the evil man are not exclusive.

[ERayR]

A Lexus commercial is causing heads to turn-not at the spiffy car but at the statement, "control is the greatest expression of power." Granted, it's ostensibly about the power of the car's motor, but there are hints of the relationship between control and power in other areas of life.

Is control the ultimate expression of power?

Power is control. Control can be wielded in either direction. That is what the conflict in heaven was about. The gospel is all about learning self control and service to others.

[The Nehor]

Control, if meant in the sense of controlling other, is an evil thing. The redeemed are told that their dominion will endlessly flow to them without compulsion. Self-control is usually good and the ability to control the elements is neutral and can be used for good or ill.

[Bernard Gui]

Power is control. Control can be wielded in either direction. That is what the conflict in heaven was about. The gospel is all about learning self control and service to others.

So, is the ultimate expression off power restraint?

Edited May 25, 2013 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

Control, if meant in the sense of controlling other, is an evil thing. The redeemed are told that their dominion will endlessly flow to them without compulsion. Self-control is usually good and the ability to control the elements is neutral and can be used for good or ill.

Which is the greater expression of power, good or evil?

[halconero]

I would argue that power, both semantically and in practice is not expressed best through control, but the by the ability to act.

What does the word power even mean? In many languages, especially the romance ones, it can be expressed as a verb synonymous with "to be able to." Examples can be found in Spanish and French where the words "poder" and "pouvoir" are both a noun and a verb. I think that the true concept of power, consistent with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is the ability to act, and not be acted upon.

The destiny of the covenant keeping Saint is to grow and grow in power until it is perfect, or in other words, the ability to act over and in all things within the bounds set by the laws of Heaven. God is all powerful not because he is all controlling, but because he is able "to do" all things expedient for the salvation of his posterity. Control, within the worldly sense, is actually the destroyer of divine power. Control and temptation are the chief tools of the devil, to which people give themselves. They are acted upon and do not act within their own capacity as children of God. True power is based on persuasion, love, patience, growing in ability and helping those around grow in power as well.

Control as the ultimate expression of power would, in my opinion, lead to it being concentrated in one person, or self-destruct, as those seeking ultimate control would fight amongst themselves.

Worldly power and control is the quest of the evil and misguided in this world. It is the Unholy Grail of Satan, Secret Combinations and the lowly.

Heavenly power, the ability to do and to ultimately act even as God does is the goal of Children of Christ. It is based on freedom, and service.

[changed]

Control, if meant in the sense of controlling other, is an evil thing. The redeemed are told that their dominion will endlessly flow to them without compulsion. Self-control is usually good and the ability to control the elements is neutral and can be used for good or ill.

That is what I was thinking too. The war in heaven was over control - God gave us all free agency, Satan wanted to control us.... I find great peace of mind through "putting it all in God's hands" - ie, do what you can, but not have your heart set on controlling anything...

God, grant me the serenity to let go of the things I cannot change,

The courage to change the things I can,

And wisdom to know the difference.

[The Nehor]

Which is the greater expression of power, good or evil?

I have no idea what you mean.

That is what I was thinking too. The war in heaven was over control - God gave us all free agency, Satan wanted to control us.... I find great peace of mind through "putting it all in God's hands" - ie, do what you can, but not have your heart set on controlling anything...

God, grant me the serenity to let go of the things I cannot change,

The courage to change the things I can,

And wisdom to know the difference.

I prefer the advanced version of the prayer:

God, grant me the serenity to let go of the things I cannot change,

The courage to change the things I can,

And the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they ticked me off.

[Stone holm]

In the realm of human affairs power and control are synonymous.

[Yep]

A Lexus commercial is causing heads to turn-not at the spiffy car but at the statement, "the ultimate expression of power is control." Granted, it's ostensibly about the power of the car's motor, but there are hints of the relationship between control and power in other areas of life.

Is control the ultimate expression of power?

http://lexusenthusia...l-synchronized/

Proper restraint/exercise of power is the central point of our learning here on Earth. Power must be used properly with proper restraint. Power itself is often unsafe and under any other means. The power of procreation is an awesome power that if used without proper restraint or exercised inappropriately causes much pain and anguish for parents and/or children. I think the phrase is lacking. It would better read, "the ultimate expression of power is controlled power."

[ERayR]

I would argue that power, both semantically and in practice is not expressed best through control, but the by the ability to act.

What does the word power even mean? In many languages, especially the romance ones, it can be expressed as a verb synonymous with "to be able to." Examples can be found in Spanish and French where the words "poder" and "pouvoir" are both a noun and a verb. I think that the true concept of power, consistent with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is the ability to act, and not be acted upon.

The destiny of the covenant keeping Saint is to grow and grow in power until it is perfect, or in other words, the ability to act over and in all things within the bounds set by the laws of Heaven. God is all powerful not because he is all controlling, but because he is able "to do" all things expedient for the salvation of his posterity. Control, within the worldly sense, is actually the destroyer of divine power. Control and temptation are the chief tools of the devil, to which people give themselves. They are acted upon and do not act within their own capacity as children of God. True power is based on persuasion, love, patience, growing in ability and helping those around grow in power as well.

Control as the ultimate expression of power would, in my opinion, lead to it being concentrated in one person, or self-destruct, as those seeking ultimate control would fight amongst themselves.

Worldly power and control is the quest of the evil and misguided in this world. It is the Unholy Grail of Satan, Secret Combinations and the lowly.

Heavenly power, the ability to do and to ultimately act even as God does is the goal of Children of Christ. It is based on freedom, and service.

However, the ability to act comes through the control of the variables surrounding that action. If one has no power to control, their actions are very limited.

Edited May 25, 2013 by ERayR

[Stone holm]

I would argue that power, both semantically and in practice is not expressed best through control, but the by the ability to act.

What does the word power even mean? In many languages, especially the romance ones, it can be expressed as a verb synonymous with "to be able to." Examples can be found in Spanish and French where the words "poder" and "pouvoir" are both a noun and a verb. I think that the true concept of power, consistent with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is the ability to act, and not be acted upon.

The destiny of the covenant keeping Saint is to grow and grow in power until it is perfect, or in other words, the ability to act over and in all things within the bounds set by the laws of Heaven. God is all powerful not because he is all controlling, but because he is able "to do" all things expedient for the salvation of his posterity. Control, within the worldly sense, is actually the destroyer of divine power. Control and temptation are the chief tools of the devil, to which people give themselves. They are acted upon and do not act within their own capacity as children of God. True power is based on persuasion, love, patience, growing in ability and helping those around grow in power as well.

Control as the ultimate expression of power would, in my opinion, lead to it being concentrated in one person, or self-destruct, as those seeking ultimate control would fight amongst themselves.

Worldly power and control is the quest of the evil and misguided in this world. It is the Unholy Grail of Satan, Secret Combinations and the lowly.

Heavenly power, the ability to do and to ultimately act even as God does is the goal of Children of Christ. It is based on freedom, and service.

No not the ability to act, but the ability to control. I think you are correct you can have power and not wield it, but by definition the power is the ability to control in the realm of human affairs. You might have uncontrolled power in nature, depending on your view of God's influence on nature and/or to what extent you agree with theories such as the Gaia hypothesis.

[thesometimesaint]

Which is the greater expression of power, good or evil?

Right now the Devil rules with blood and horror.

[changed]

However, the ability to act comes through the control of the variables surrounding that action. If one has no power to control, their actions are very limited.

There's power to control inanimate objects (which is a good thing) vs. power to control sentient/living entities (which is a bad thing). When it comes to living entitites, we need to replace the word "control" with "inspire, influence, teach, guide, love, see face to face, understand, empathise with" etc. etc. instead of "control". When it comes to living entities - there is more power in being able to inspire/influence/guide, then there is in control. It is a weak, unloving, entity who controls others... it is a powerful entity who inspires others.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Power and control for the evil man are not exclusive.

Power and control is always an allusion.

[ERayR]

There's power to control inanimate objects (which is a good thing) vs. power to control sentient/living entities (which is a bad thing). When it comes to living entitites, we need to replace the word "control" with "inspire, influence, teach, guide, love, see face to face, understand, empathise with" etc. etc. instead of "control". When it comes to living entities - there is more power in being able to inspire/influence/guide, then there is in control. It is a weak, unloving, entity who controls others... it is a powerful entity who inspires others.

I can't buy your premise. If one is a horseback you had better control that sentient entity or you will soon find yourself afoot chasing your horse. Experience.

[Stone holm]

Power and control is always an allusion.

Did you mean illusion? If not what are they alluding to?

[Deborah]

When my children were young I could yell at them and it wouldn't phase them. But when I got really quiet and lowered my voice they knew I was really mad and meant business and they became quiet. I've used this technique quite often in teaching young children, getting very quiet when I wanted their attention.

True power is self-control, and not necessarily control over one's circumstances. One may think he has power if he has soldiers at his command but if he has no self-discipline it is only an illusion and once the soldiers are no longer around him he becomes the weakling he truly is. Joseph Smith illustrated true power when he stood in chains in prison and rebuked the guards. With all their guns and numbers they could not stand up to true power. He may not have had control over his circumstances but he certainly illustrated power.

[Questing Beast]

Good and evil exercise control in diametrically opposed ways. Good/God exercises control to uphold perfect freedom to choose for all beings possessing that ability/gift. Evil exercises control to subvert all will to itself, to destroy all exercise of free will by every other being but itself. That the apparent world of either good or evil cannot be distinguished merely by looking at a picture or other depiction of it should not be surprising: since evil wants to take over everything that good/God has created and prove that evil can do it even better. So complete subjection to "law and order" is the goal of evil, to the extent that everything is perfectly in its place without blemish or flaw, with every soul going about his/her duty without question, evincing "happiness" when commanded to do so, etc. Evil eradicates all non compliance without compunction, because evil KNOWS it is right and brooks not the least degree of disagreement from anyone, especially not disagreement from God. So the resulting world by all appearances would be paradisiacal if evil has its eternal way with creation. But there would be no allowed exercise of free will, and thus the total control of evil is to subject all things to its own will alone. God, on the other hand, controls the overarching defense of individual free will, thus making it impossible for evil to ever achieve the kind of world it wants to create....

[Stone holm]

Good and evil exercise control in diametrically opposed ways. Good/God exercises control to uphold perfect freedom to choose for all beings possessing that ability/gift. Evil exercises control to subvert all will to itself, to destroy all exercise of free will by every other being but itself. That the apparent world of either good or evil cannot be distinguished merely by looking at a picture or other depiction of it should not be surprising: since evil wants to take over everything that good/God has created and prove that evil can do it even better. So complete subjection to "law and order" is the goal of evil, to the extent that everything is perfectly in its place without blemish or flaw, with every soul going about his/her duty without question, evincing "happiness" when commanded to do so, etc. Evil eradicates all non compliance without compunction, because evil KNOWS it is right and brooks not the least degree of disagreement from anyone, especially not disagreement from God. So the resulting world by all appearances would be paradisiacal if evil has its eternal way with creation. But there would be no allowed exercise of free will, and thus the total control of evil is to subject all things to its own will alone. God, on the other hand, controls the overarching defense of individual free will, thus making it impossible for evil to ever achieve the kind of world it wants to create....

Interesting observation about strict law and order being associated with evil, what are the implications for socially conservative legislation?

Edited May 26, 2013 by Stone holm

[Questing Beast]

Dire. During the 50s the words "under God" were added to the Pledge of Allegiance. During McCarthyism. In reality, the perceived need for rote pledges and anthems and suchlike adherence by masses of citizens, especially in indoctrinating children in the virtues of the "State", are disturbingly evil in their need to control and enforce conformity. I pull back in revulsion from all such movements....

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Power and control is always an allusion.

I made a mistake my Drill Sargent in boot camp had power and control.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Dire. During the 50s the words "under God" were added to the Pledge of Allegiance. During McCarthyism. In reality, the perceived need for rote pledges and anthems and suchlike adherence by masses of citizens, especially in indoctrinating children in the virtues of the "State", are disturbingly evil in their need to control and enforce conformity. I pull back in revulsion from all such movements....

You have a problem with "under God"...our country needs God...the two you cite are not linked Joe McCarthy did not add it.

[halconero]

No not the ability to act, but the ability to control. I think you are correct you can have power and not wield it, but by definition the power is the ability to control in the realm of human affairs. You might have uncontrolled power in nature, depending on your view of God's influence on nature and/or to what extent you agree with theories such as the Gaia hypothesis.

Actually no, by definition power is the ability to act. Control in and of itself is a ancillary definition but not the primary. Power in human affairs is even more specific.

(1) : ability to act or produce an effect - Merriam-webster

1) ability to do or act; capability of doing or accomplishing something. - dictionary.reference.com

The etymology (origin of the word) of the word power: "ability; ability to act or do; strength, vigor, might," from Anglo-French pouair, Old French povoir, noun use of the infinitive, "to be able," earlier podir (9c.), from Vulgar Latin *potere, from Latin potis "powerful."

In these definitions control is mentioned as being an expression, but not the definition of power.

There is the power to create, the power to kill, the power to judge, and yes, the power to control. Even if it was shown that they were synonyms for control that would still be an indication of variation between the terms (synonyms, linguistically, all have variants between them. They are related words, but not exact replicas and also differ in use depending on various situations).

The wonderful thing about this thread is that it has prompted me to spend the past few days studying the concept of power in the scriptures, how it is used, how the power of God is expressed and how the power of the devil is expressed. The key to remember is the power means "to be able to" and does not automatically mean "to control." That can be an aspect, but it is not the only definition of it. (LDS.org agrees with me. The very first line under the definition of power is: The ability to act. It goes on to talk about control, but other ways power is expressed as well).

I'll be posting more later, but right now I have to head State side to the gold ole city of Spokane, WA.