Ancient Origins Of Lds Temple Esoteric Rites?

[ChristKnight]

Happy Easter everyone! Before I head off to church then work (sadly the hospital never closes, and I didn't get to put in a holiday for today!), I wanted to get off this thread, as I've been thinking a lot about this lately.

Firstly, I love the temple. It was one of the things that I was always curious about, even before my conversion. After I was endowed, I wanted to become a temple worker (still think about it), then I was called as EQP, and well...

Anyway, I've been thinking about how the LDS temple relates to the Old Testament temple, as well as what we know about ancient Christian practices and beliefs, all in the context of what I've been thinking about lately: the LDS faith as a true restoration of not only priesthood authority, but true doctrines, ordinances, and practices.

So, how do LDS typically view the antiquity of the LDS temple and the ordinances performed therein? I guess I'm particularly interested in the Washing and Anointing, and the Endowment (and yes, I know we can't go into detail about those ordinances outside of the temple). What are some good resources on this?

One article that I've seen recommended many times is Early Christian and Jewish Rituals Related to Temple Practices. When I read that, I see a number of references to Gnostic texts. How do LDS view the ancient Gnostics? Did they practice authentic temple/esoteric rituals, or were these remnants of the authentic practices? If I understand the thinking correctly, the Gospel was given originally to Adam, and has gone through periods of apostasy and restoration throughout the ages. Because of this, vestiges of the true Gospel, including ordinances, can be found in various cultures and religions around the world. This would be why, for example, Nibley finds parallels between the LDS Endowment and ancient Egyptian practices, right? I'm assuming that is why he would find such Egyptian-LDS parallels as evidence of a restoration, right? I'm assuming I could be wrong as to the purpose of such a study, so I finally gave in and purchased The Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri-An Egyptian Endowment. How good is this book, I've seen it recommended here before. Does it also go into ancient Christian practices?

How do you view references to ancient Christian practices? I think that Catholics and Orthodox would find their own practices within the writings of the ECFs, with references to the "mysteries", i.e. sacraments in the West, and that they still do these anointings of the body, putting on white clothing, receiving a new name, etc. I asked on Temple Study about how the author views the LDS ordinances and early Christianity, and he said that he believes that the mysteries practiced by the early Christians are the same as that performed in LDS temples. If you agree, what are some evidences of that? Is this where Gnostic references, as seen in Tvedtnes' article, come in?

And what about in comparison to the Temple during Old and New Testament times? If I understand Margaret Barker's research correctly, she believes that there are differences between Solomon's Temple and the Second Temple, right? It certainly is interesting to see how she views temple practices and their relationship with Catholic/Orthodox liturgical practices (which is what I see much of her research as focusing on). But aside from that, and noting that obviously animal sacrifice is no longer necessary hence why it isn't performed, how does the LDS temple relate to ancient Temple practices?

That's about it. I'm sure I'm rambling and am probably incoherent at times, and I'm sure this is way too much for one thread, but this is a topic I've always been interested in, especially now that I'm trying to see how the LDS faith really is a Restoration, not just of priesthood keys and power.

Oh and random thought I had: I see that some have referenced an article about the hand as a cup in ancient temple practices (I need to find that article). It is interesting to me that Catholics receive the Eucharist with their hands as overlapping cups, cups to receive God (though of course in the Tridentine Mass/Extraordinary Form, the Eucharist is received directly on the tongue, though if I remember correctly, receiving in the hand is a more ancient practice. Interestingly, the Eastern Catholics and Orthodox receive in a spoon). No relevance to anything I guess, just random thought I had.

[volgadon]

Happy Easter everyone! Before I head off to church then work (sadly the hospital never closes, and I didn't get to put in a holiday for today!), I wanted to get off this thread, as I've been thinking a lot about this lately.

Firstly, I love the temple. It was one of the things that I was always curious about, even before my conversion. After I was endowed, I wanted to become a temple worker (still think about it), then I was called as EQP, and well...

Anyway, I've been thinking about how the LDS temple relates to the Old Testament temple, as well as what we know about ancient Christian practices and beliefs, all in the context of what I've been thinking about lately: the LDS faith as a true restoration of not only priesthood authority, but true doctrines, ordinances, and practices.

So, how do LDS typically view the antiquity of the LDS temple and the ordinances performed therein? I guess I'm particularly interested in the Washing and Anointing, and the Endowment (and yes, I know we can't go into detail about those ordinances outside of the temple). What are some good resources on this?

One article that I've seen recommended many times is Early Christian and Jewish Rituals Related to Temple Practices. When I read that, I see a number of references to Gnostic texts. How do LDS view the ancient Gnostics? Did they practice authentic temple/esoteric rituals, or were these remnants of the authentic practices? If I understand the thinking correctly, the Gospel was given originally to Adam, and has gone through periods of apostasy and restoration throughout the ages. Because of this, vestiges of the true Gospel, including ordinances, can be found in various cultures and religions around the world. This would be why, for example, Nibley finds parallels between the LDS Endowment and ancient Egyptian practices, right? I'm assuming that is why he would find such Egyptian-LDS parallels as evidence of a restoration, right? I'm assuming I could be wrong as to the purpose of such a study, so I finally gave in and purchased The Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri-An Egyptian Endowment. How good is this book, I've seen it recommended here before. Does it also go into ancient Christian practices?

How do you view references to ancient Christian practices? I think that Catholics and Orthodox would find their own practices within the writings of the ECFs, with references to the "mysteries", i.e. sacraments in the West, and that they still do these anointings of the body, putting on white clothing, receiving a new name, etc. I asked on Temple Study about how the author views the LDS ordinances and early Christianity, and he said that he believes that the mysteries practiced by the early Christians are the same as that performed in LDS temples. If you agree, what are some evidences of that? Is this where Gnostic references, as seen in Tvedtnes' article, come in?

And what about in comparison to the Temple during Old and New Testament times? If I understand Margaret Barker's research correctly, she believes that there are differences between Solomon's Temple and the Second Temple, right? It certainly is interesting to see how she views temple practices and their relationship with Catholic/Orthodox liturgical practices (which is what I see much of her research as focusing on). But aside from that, and noting that obviously animal sacrifice is no longer necessary hence why it isn't performed, how does the LDS temple relate to ancient Temple practices?

That's about it. I'm sure I'm rambling and am probably incoherent at times, and I'm sure this is way too much for one thread, but this is a topic I've always been interested in, especially now that I'm trying to see how the LDS faith really is a Restoration, not just of priesthood keys and power.

Oh and random thought I had: I see that some have referenced an article about the hand as a cup in ancient temple practices (I need to find that article). It is interesting to me that Catholics receive the Eucharist with their hands as overlapping cups, cups to receive God (though of course in the Tridentine Mass/Extraordinary Form, the Eucharist is received directly on the tongue, though if I remember correctly, receiving in the hand is a more ancient practice. Interestingly, the Eastern Catholics and Orthodox receive in a spoon). No relevance to anything I guess, just random thought I had.

I'll find you some good references. I'll start with some things I posted here.

[MormonMason]

The earliest Christians had esoteric teachings. Paul alludes to them in 1 Corinthians 2:7 (6-8 ). Directly following his mention of them, Paul, in the beginning of the next chapter, then speaks of how the Corinthians were not ready for meat so he had to give them milk.

There also is a brief discussion of this under the entry musterion Bauer's A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature. The gist of the discussion is that the Christians communicated these things in such a manner that they were hidden in a mystery so that people unauthorized or that outsiders would not learn of it.

It is of interest that Paul would say that if the princes of the world had known this hidden wisdom they would not have crucified Christ.

Edited March 31, 2013 by MormonMason

[mfbukowski]

I think that Joseph was inspired to create a new "endowment" similar to ancient ceremonies, made up of a soup of symbols and ideas and parallels to ancient ceremonies, but not necessarily direct descendents of any one of these traditions.

I think that the Endowment is a unique liturgy revealed for our age and times and purposes, a restoration of the functionality of what previous such liturgies represented while at the same time taking that to new levels of spirituality rationally and otherwise.

I don't think that previous ceremonies anywhere had to do with a notion of Christian Theosis, and is the difference. We are the only church which has had all the ordinances we have in one place and one time, so that parallels we see are just those- parallels.

It is a restoration as one might restore an old building while simultaneously making it into something completely new, with new purposes, and functions.

[Robert F. Smith]

.......................................

Anyway, I've been thinking about how the LDS temple relates to the Old Testament temple, as well as what we know about ancient Christian practices and beliefs, all in the context of what I've been thinking about lately: the LDS faith as a true restoration of not only priesthood authority, but true doctrines, ordinances, and practices.

So, how do LDS typically view the antiquity of the LDS temple and the ordinances performed therein? I guess I'm particularly interested in the Washing and Anointing, and the Endowment (and yes, I know we can't go into detail about those ordinances outside of the temple). What are some good resources on this?

One article that I've seen recommended many times is Early Christian and Jewish Rituals Related to Temple Practices. When I read that, I see a number of references to Gnostic texts. How do LDS view the ancient Gnostics? Did they practice authentic temple/esoteric rituals, or were these remnants of the authentic practices? If I understand the thinking correctly, the Gospel was given originally to Adam, and has gone through periods of apostasy and restoration throughout the ages. Because of this, vestiges of the true Gospel, including ordinances, can be found in various cultures and religions around the world. This would be why, for example, Nibley finds parallels between the LDS Endowment and ancient Egyptian practices, right? I'm assuming that is why he would find such Egyptian-LDS parallels as evidence of a restoration, right? I'm assuming I could be wrong as to the purpose of such a study, so I finally gave in and purchased The Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri-An Egyptian Endowment. How good is this book, I've seen it recommended here before. Does it also go into ancient Christian practices?

A lot of your questions are answered in Nibley's Message, and he includes appendices in the back in which he quotes from early Christian, Manichaean, Mandaean, and Christian Gnostic texts showing that they certainly practiced esoteric rites. Nibley's Message is extraordinary. You have only to look at the table of contents to see what he is up to.

Here for your enlightenment is a layout of part of the Gospel of Philip (a Valentinian Christian Gnostic sacramental catachesis) in proper sequence:

1. baptism

2. chrism - anointing

3. eucharist - thanks

4. sote - ransom-redemption-salvation

5. koiton - bridal chamber = Holy of Holies*

According to Isenberg, these are apparently the "five stages of a complete initiation," though the ritual itself is not given in detail – aside from baptism being by immersion.** Dates from the second half of the 3rd century A.D., dealing with initiation, sacred names, etc.# To these Nibley compares the Manichaean 5 tokens/ordinances.##

* Robinson, Nag Hammadi Library in English, 3rd ed., 144, 148-149, 151-155; Gaye Strathearn, “The Valentinian Bridal Chamber in the Gospel of Philip,” Studies in the Bible and Antiquity, 1 (2009), 83-103.

** W. Isenberg, in James Robinson, NHLE³, 140.

# W. Isenberg, in Robinson, NHLE³, 141; cf. also the Acts of Thomas, as discussed by J. Michael LaFargue, Language and Gnosis: The Opening Scenes of the Acts of Thomas, Harvard Dissertations in Religion 18 (Fortress, 1985), 215; B. C. Barrois, "Gnosticism Reformed," Dialogue, 27/1 (Spring 1994), 245-248, citing Irenaeus, 1:21, and 1:6:4, resp. on redemption and the bridal chamber.

## Nibley, Collected Works of Hugh Nibley XII:54, n. 40, citing Schmidt, Kephalaia, 38.

How do you view references to ancient Christian practices? I think that Catholics and Orthodox would find their own practices within the writings of the ECFs, with references to the "mysteries", i.e. sacraments in the West, and that they still do these anointings of the body, putting on white clothing, receiving a new name, etc. I asked on Temple Study about how the author views the LDS ordinances and early Christianity, and he said that he believes that the mysteries practiced by the early Christians are the same as that performed in LDS temples. If you agree, what are some evidences of that? Is this where Gnostic references, as seen in Tvedtnes' article, come in?

The early Christian Fathers were scandalized by the fact that the pagan mysteries had so much in common with the Christian mysteries, and some claimed it was a Satanic plot. A more modern Mormon writer used to say that Mormonism is the only modern mystery religion.

See especially Hugh M. Riley, Christian Initiation: A Comparative Study in the Mystagogical Writings of Cyril of Jerusalem, John Chrysostom, Theodore of Mopsuestia and Ambrose of Milan (Wash., D.C., 1974).

Richard Reitzenstein, Hellenistic Mystery Religions (Pickwick, 1980).

And what about in comparison to the Temple during Old and New Testament times? If I understand Margaret Barker's research correctly, she believes that there are differences between Solomon's Temple and the Second Temple, right? It certainly is interesting to see how she views temple practices and their relationship with Catholic/Orthodox liturgical practices (which is what I see much of her research as focusing on). But aside from that, and noting that obviously animal sacrifice is no longer necessary hence why it isn't performed, how does the LDS temple relate to ancient Temple practices?

The approach taken by younger LDS scholars (David Bokovoy, David John Butler, etc.) has been to examine the matrix of OT writings on the Divine Council, Mount of Assembly, Banquet of Salvation, temple liturgy in the Psalter, and temple layout/architecture & furniture & implements, as a group. Such motifs can be found also in the Book of Mormon, which surprises a lot of people.

One can examine specific temple texts in the Bible, in Genesis 1 - 2 (a number of non-Mormon scholars so define it). A good many stories in the Bible seem to be about something else, but actually include an esoteric ritual sequence, e.g., early examples are found in Ruth 3:3, II Samuel 12:20, and later in Exodus 29:4-8, and Leviticus 8:6-10. It may be necessary for the casual reader to study the Ruth instance with Edward F. Campbell's Anchor Bible edition of Ruth (Doubleday, 1975), 118-119, in order to understand the full Garden of Eden context and the other esoteric motifs.

Oh and random thought I had: I see that some have referenced an article about the hand as a cup in ancient temple practices (I need to find that article). It is interesting to me that Catholics receive the Eucharist with their hands as overlapping cups, cups to receive God (though of course in the Tridentine Mass/Extraordinary Form, the Eucharist is received directly on the tongue, though if I remember correctly, receiving in the hand is a more ancient practice. Interestingly, the Eastern Catholics and Orthodox receive in a spoon). No relevance to anything I guess, just random thought I had.

I think you would greatly enjoy Nibley's chapter on "Sacred Vestments" in his Temple & Cosmos (FARMS/Deseret, 1992), 91-138. It includes illustrations of the incense holders you are thinking of here in fig 22, on p. 106. You can read the text at http://maxwellinstit...103&chapid=1149 , but the illustrations are not included there. The caption to fig. 22 says: "Incense was often burned in special holders made in the form of a cupped hand, the 'golden spoons' of Exodus 25:29. From the Egyptian version (A) at Beni Hasan, c. 1100 B.C., to an actual steatite example (B) found at Meggido, the 'filled hand' (the Hebrew letter kap כ means 'palm') is the widespread sign of offering sacrifice."

Edited April 1, 2013 by Robert F. Smith

[volgadon]

This thread has some great comments amidst the dross.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/58869-are-the-lds-temple-rituals-supposed-to-be-anything-like-the-rituals-of-the-old-testament-temple/page__hl__%20ezekiel%20%20tragedian

[volgadon]

ChristKnight, you might be interested in this article.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/57922-ritual-retelling-of-biblical-narrative-in-lieu-of-temple-worship/page__hl__%2Bezekiel+%2Btragedian

[CASteinman]

The Early Christian Prayer Circle was always very interesting to me. There was a really good article found in "Mormonism and Ancient Christianity" I think this is pretty close to that:

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/transcripts/?id=59

There was some version of this that had a more detailed discussion about names on the prayer scroll -- and about how they have found actual names inscribed on ancient altars. This one seems to talk about that in a less direct (and in my view.. less interesting) way.

[Robert F. Smith]

The Early Christian Prayer Circle was always very interesting to me. There was a really good article found in "Mormonism and Ancient Christianity" I think this is pretty close to that:

http://maxwellinstit...nscripts/?id=59

There was some version of this that had a more detailed discussion about names on the prayer scroll -- and about how they have found actual names inscribed on ancient altars. This one seems to talk about that in a less direct (and in my view.. less interesting) way.

Even today, Bro. Steinman,

Orthodox Jews include a roll or list of people who need prayers in their Sabbath services.

[Maidservant]

noting that obviously animal sacrifice is no longer necessary hence why it isn't performed,

However, it is performed each week when we partake of the Sacrament. This is the Levitical offering. Or as I understand it.

A good many stories in the Bible seem to be about something else, but actually include an esoteric ritual sequence, e.g., early examples are found in Ruth 3:3, II Samuel 12:20, and later in Exodus 29:4-8, and Leviticus 8:6-10. It may be necessary for the casual reader to study the Ruth instance with Edward F. Campbell's Anchor Bible edition of Ruth (Doubleday, 1975), 118-119, in order to understand the full Garden of Eden context and the other esoteric motifs.

When I see the Old Testament, I see an entire ritual sequence from beginning to end that, after all, has only a limited connection to the stories themselves. That is, the stories are vehicles for the information--but the stories themselves are not the information. The stories are the veil over the information. That is why when I hear people dis-sing the Old Testament I wish I could shout, "You're looking at the pieces, not the whole puzzle!" or summat. Or as I understand it.

[volgadon]

A note of caution on "Gnosticism," from p. 7 of Michael Allen Williams' Rethinking "Gnosticism."

One of the most interesting developments in the history of religion in late antiquity was the emergence of certain forms of religious expression and practice that modern scholarship usually classifies under the rubric “Gnosticism,” or “Gnosis,” or “the Gnostic religion.” The term “gnosticism” seems to have originated in the eighteenth century. On the other hand, the words “gnosis” and “gnostic” are Greek terms that are actually found in some of the ancient sources that either describe or represent examples of certain of the religious forms in question. However, when used for the modern category “Gnosticism,” “Gnosis,” or “the Gnostic religion,” none of these terms has an ancient equivalent. Antiquity quite literally had no word for the persons who are the subject of the present study—that is, no single word. The category is a modern construction.

By way of contrast, we might note that Greek words like Christianos (the noun “Christian”), Christianikos (adjective), or Christianismos (“Christianity”) do begin to appear in ancient literature not too many generations after Jesus of Nazareth. And at least in some cases, their function in the ancient texts is essentially the same as that of their modern equivalents: to designate individuals and communities whose religious tradition and devotion presuppose a central role or place for Jesus. In antiquity as in modern times, there might be argument about what counts as “legitimate” Christianity, but the point is that in both instances there is a category “Christianity.”

This was not true for “Gnosticism,” nor even, as we will see, for “Gnosis” or “the Gnostic religion.” This is not to deny the existence of the persons or writings themselves that are usually treated under this modern category. They did exist, and their story constitutes one of the most intriguing chapters in the history of ancient religion. But in actuality we should speak of their “stories,” for a recurring argument in this study will be that interesting and important things about these people have been consistently obscured by the very decision to reduce their stories to the story of a single movement or religion, or “-ism.”

[rpn]

When I think of this, I can easily believe that ancient prophets and even Christ received the temple ordinances (probably on their mountain visits). But when I see how the record keeping is part of this dispensation in time, and therefore ordinances done anciently will have to be redone so they are recorded, I think it may be no accident that this IS the dispensation of temple work generally.

[williamsmith]

DARELL D. THORPE's research had/has a lot of good info on the subject.

Must save link, thanks to those who saved it.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030817121351/http://www.restorationhistory.com/rh/&ps.html

Edited April 1, 2013 by williamsmith

[CASteinman]

A note of caution on "Gnosticism," from p. 7 of Michael Allen Williams' Rethinking "Gnosticism."

I like this. I always feel a bit annoyed by that term, because I feel like they were all gnostics -- and just one mix of apostasies won out over other (sometimes similar sometimes different) mixes of apostasy.

As one of them said .. the heresies sprang up like Mushrooms... once the apostles were gone.

[CASteinman]

A note of caution on "Gnosticism," from p. 7 of Michael Allen Williams' Rethinking "Gnosticism."

I like this. I always feel a bit annoyed by that term, because I feel like they were all gnostics -- and just one mix of apostasies won out over other (sometimes similar sometimes different) mixes of apostasy.

As one of them said .. the heresies sprang up like Mushrooms... once the apostles were gone.

[Nathair/|\]

This might help answer the questions in the OP.

[Garden Girl]

Firstly, I love the temple. It was one of the things that I was always curious about, even before my conversion. After I was endowed, I wanted to become a temple worker (still think about it), then I was called as EQP, and well...

I hope you will not give up on this... Every week for six years I went into Portland to serve as an ordinance worker... One of the sweetest, most profound experiences I had was the day I was set apart by the temple presidency... as I left the president's office and walked across the temple area toward the dressing rooms to change for a session, I was completely filled with such a deep love for everyone that I saw... I can't really describe how deeply I felt this all encompassing love... and I said to myself... aha, this has been a gift... I've been given just a brief glimpse of Heavenly Father's love for us... and it made serving my sisters so very special. I never got tired of it. I suffered the sense of sadness when for health issues I had to give up my calling.

So, I do hope you will continue to look forward to serving in the temple.

GG

[mfbukowski]

I hope you will not give up on this... Every week for six years I went into Portland to serve as an ordinance worker... One of the sweetest, most profound experiences I had was the day I was set apart by the temple presidency... as I left the president's office and walked across the temple area toward the dressing rooms to change for a session, I was completely filled with such a deep love for everyone that I saw... I can't really describe how deeply I felt this all encompassing love... and I said to myself... aha, this has been a gift... I've been given just a brief glimpse of Heavenly Father's love for us... and it made serving my sisters so very special. I never got tired of it. I suffered the sense of sadness when for health issues I had to give up my calling.

So, I do hope you will continue to look forward to serving in the temple.

GG

I second that !

[ChristKnight]

The earliest Christians had esoteric teachings. Paul alludes to them in 1 Corinthians 2:7 (6-8 ). Directly following his mention of them, Paul, in the beginning of the next chapter, then speaks of how the Corinthians were not ready for meat so he had to give them milk.

There also is a brief discussion of this under the entry musterion Bauer's A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature. The gist of the discussion is that the Christians communicated these things in such a manner that they were hidden in a mystery so that people unauthorized or that outsiders would not learn of it.

It is of interest that Paul would say that if the princes of the world had known this hidden wisdom they would not have crucified Christ.

Thanks. It's interesting to think of Christianity as a mystery religion. I've been aware that the early Christians viewed the sacraments as "mysteries" (they are still referred as such in the Eastern churches), and the mysteries were carefully guarded. For example, in the liturgy, the catechumens were dismissed after the Liturgy of the Word (the reading of scripture, singing of psalms, etc), prior to the Liturgy of the Eucharist and the celebration of that mystery. This still occurs in many Catholic and Orthodox churches. I remember attending Mass at the Cathedral of St. Matthew the Apostle in DC, and they would dismiss those in RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults), who would go off to religious classes.

From your post, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I'm seeing you say that the early Christians not only believed in mysteries as in sacred rites/sacraments/ordinances, but also a "hidden wisdom" or knowledge, those esoteric teachings Paul implied about. Would this be something separate from the mysteries=ordinances/sacraments understanding? I mean, I guess you could say that the esoteric teachings could be imparted through sacred rites, however I'm wondering if these "mysteries" were not merely participating in ordinances. I think that traditional Christians would say that the mysteries are just the sacraments, and through the sacraments you participate in the life of God, receiving His grace. I'm curious how such an understanding is the same or different from additional insights found amongst the ECFs. Guess I need to get me hands on that Lexicon.

[ChristKnight]

I think that Joseph was inspired to create a new "endowment" similar to ancient ceremonies, made up of a soup of symbols and ideas and parallels to ancient ceremonies, but not necessarily direct descendents of any one of these traditions.

I think that the Endowment is a unique liturgy revealed for our age and times and purposes, a restoration of the functionality of what previous such liturgies represented while at the same time taking that to new levels of spirituality rationally and otherwise.

I don't think that previous ceremonies anywhere had to do with a notion of Christian Theosis, and is the difference. We are the only church which has had all the ordinances we have in one place and one time, so that parallels we see are just those- parallels.

It is a restoration as one might restore an old building while simultaneously making it into something completely new, with new purposes, and functions.

Mark! I of course always appreciate your insights on the temple and temple ordinances.

I can agree that the Endowment would be an ordinance for our times and purposes, in the sense that certain aspects have more contemporary origins to help convey what is believed to be eternal truths and knowledge.

That's interesting that you don't think that previous ceremonies had to do with theosis. I think that at least Catholics and Orthodox, perhaps the Easterns more so than in the West, viewed and still view the sacraments as vehicles for God's grace to be infused into the souls of the partakers, ways for them to participate in the life of God and become more like Him. On the other hand, it is true that it is only the LDS Church that claims to have, in addition to the "regular" sacraments/ordinances of baptism, confirmation, etc., there is also the washing and anointing, Endowment, and sealing. It seems that some, such as Bryce Haymond on Temple Study (does he post here?) hold to the view that the mysteries practiced by the ancient Christians are the same as those practiced in the temple today (though of course with various cultural "updates", so to speak). I think I need to read more on this (and this is really my favorite topic, in addition to revelation, in relation to the Gospel. I love reading about ordinances/sacraments, temples, etc), but I'm really curious to see if the early Christians had a notion of something like, for example, a washing and anointing separate from that found in baptism and confirmation/chrismation.

[ChristKnight]

This thread has some great comments amidst the dross.

http://www.mormondia...kiel tragedian

Thanks! Really good thread, covers many of the things I'm interested in. I think critics far too often are quick to say something like "Mormons practice Freemasonry in their temples!! It was all stolen from Freemasonry, there's nothing else to it!". Reading about ancient parallels to the LDS temple ordinances, whether talking about the importance of the Creation in esoteric rites, prayer circles, the importance of washing, anointing, and sacred clothing (I love the Initiatory and the blessings pronounced within it), etc, if anything, it shows that even if it's true that the LDS temple ordinances are not in fact valid ordinances practiced throughout time, the critics must better account for where they came from, instead of just claiming it came from Freemasonry, since many, if not most aspects of temple ordinances find no Masonic parallels (hope I'm being as vague as possible!).

[MormonMason]

Thanks. It's interesting to think of Christianity as a mystery religion. I've been aware that the early Christians viewed the sacraments as "mysteries" (they are still referred as such in the Eastern churches), and the mysteries were carefully guarded. For example, in the liturgy, the catechumens were dismissed after the Liturgy of the Word (the reading of scripture, singing of psalms, etc), prior to the Liturgy of the Eucharist and the celebration of that mystery. This still occurs in many Catholic and Orthodox churches. I remember attending Mass at the Cathedral of St. Matthew the Apostle in DC, and they would dismiss those in RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults), who would go off to religious classes.

From your post, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I'm seeing you say that the early Christians not only believed in mysteries as in sacred rites/sacraments/ordinances, but also a "hidden wisdom" or knowledge, those esoteric teachings Paul implied about. Would this be something separate from the mysteries=ordinances/sacraments understanding? I mean, I guess you could say that the esoteric teachings could be imparted through sacred rites, however I'm wondering if these "mysteries" were not merely participating in ordinances. I think that traditional Christians would say that the mysteries are just the sacraments, and through the sacraments you participate in the life of God, receiving His grace. I'm curious how such an understanding is the same or different from additional insights found amongst the ECFs. Guess I need to get me hands on that Lexicon.

It is hard to tell from a single passage of scripture what separates from what but the interesting thing about this passage is that it uses the same terms that the mystery religions used to describe their mysteries and their adherents. The wisdom Paul speaks of also was said by the passage to be communicated "in a mystery" to "the initiated." Whatever it was, if the Jews had known it they would not have had Christ crucified.

If you do intend to get hold of this lexicon, be aware that it assumes a working knowledge of Greek. It is a wonderful resource, however. Its current edition is the third English edition. You can still find 2nd edition copies out there (I have both the 2nd and 3rd editions at home) but I recommend the 3rd because of the revisions that it received to bring it current to Bauer's latest German edition as well as adding one or two useful features.

[ChristKnight]

A lot of your questions are answered in Nibley's Message, and he includes appendices in the back in which he quotes from early Christian, Manichaean, Mandaean, and Christian Gnostic texts showing that they certainly practiced esoteric rites. Nibley's Message is extraordinary. You have only to look at the table of contents to see what he is up to.

Thanks, yes I believe you were one of the people that I've seen recommend his book, so I can't wait for it to arrive on Wednesday!

So you would say that the esoteric rites practiced by the Manichaeans, Mandeans, and Christian Gnostics are vestiges of the true esoteric rites, rites that have been restored in the LDS faith?

Here for your enlightenment is a layout of part of the Gospel of Philip (a Valentinian Christian Gnostic sacramental catachesis) in proper sequence:

1. baptism

2. chrism - anointing

3. eucharist - thanks

4. sote - ransom-redemption-salvation

5. koiton - bridal chamber = Holy of Holies*

According to Isenberg, these are apparently the "five stages of a complete initiation," though the ritual itself is not given in detail – aside from baptism being by immersion.** Dates from the second half of the 3rd century A.D., dealing with initiation, sacred names, etc.# To these Nibley compares the Manichaean 5 tokens/ordinances.##

* Robinson, Nag Hammadi Library in English, 3rd ed., 144, 148-149, 151-155; Gaye Strathearn, “The Valentinian Bridal Chamber in the Gospel of Philip,” Studies in the Bible and Antiquity, 1 (2009), 83-103.

** W. Isenberg, in James Robinson, NHLE³, 140.

# W. Isenberg, in Robinson, NHLE³, 141; cf. also the Acts of Thomas, as discussed by J. Michael LaFargue, Language and Gnosis: The Opening Scenes of the Acts of Thomas, Harvard Dissertations in Religion 18 (Fortress, 1985), 215; B. C. Barrois, "Gnosticism Reformed," Dialogue, 27/1 (Spring 1994), 245-248, citing Irenaeus, 1:21, and 1:6:4, resp. on redemption and the bridal chamber.

## Nibley, Collected Works of Hugh Nibley XII:54, n. 40, citing Schmidt, Kephalaia, 38.

Thanks for the resources, always very enlightening and helpful. I'll have to look into the gnostic Gospel of Philip. On another forum, a poster that's a member of a modern Christian Gnostic church referred to the Gospel of Philip as one of the earliest Christian (obviously traditional Christians would have issues having "Christian" and "gnostic" in the same sentence) writings on sacramental theology.

The paper on the Bridal Chamber also looks intriguing, I've added it to my lengthy reading list. From what I've read in the past, not much is known about this sacrament (or Redemption apparently), so it'll be great to read what is said in that article, as well as Gnosticism Reformed (which I had seen before but hadn't read completely).

The early Christian Fathers were scandalized by the fact that the pagan mysteries had so much in common with the Christian mysteries, and some claimed it was a Satanic plot. A more modern Mormon writer used to say that Mormonism is the only modern mystery religion.

See especially Hugh M. Riley, Christian Initiation: A Comparative Study in the Mystagogical Writings of Cyril of Jerusalem, John Chrysostom, Theodore of Mopsuestia and Ambrose of Milan (Wash., D.C., 1974).

Richard Reitzenstein, Hellenistic Mystery Religions (Pickwick, 1980).

Interesting. I'm guessing that Nibley would say that this is because the Gospel was revealed since the days of Adam, so it's no wonder that there would be similarities with pagan mysteries? Assuming that he talks about such things, especially in relation to Egyptian practices, in Message, right?

I think you would greatly enjoy Nibley's chapter on "Sacred Vestments" in his Temple & Cosmos (FARMS/Deseret, 1992), 91-138. It includes illustrations of the incense holders you are thinking of here in fig 22, on p. 106. You can read the text at http://maxwellinstit...103&chapid=1149 , but the illustrations are not included there. The caption to fig. 22 says: "Incense was often burned in special holders made in the form of a cupped hand, the 'golden spoons' of Exodus 25:29. From the Egyptian version (A) at Beni Hasan, c. 1100 B.C., to an actual steatite example (B) found at Meggido, the 'filled hand' (the Hebrew letter kap כ means 'palm') is the widespread sign of offering sacrifice."

This really is fascinating to think about these parallels. I'll definitely have to read the entirety of Temple and Cosmos (I've read bits and pieces periodically).

Question for you: How do you view the "additional" ordinances, i.e. the esoteric ordinances, in relation to ancient Christian practices? In my casual, cursory, view, it seems like the ancient Christians had baptism, confirmation, Eucharist, etc., but what about, for example, a washing and anointing in addition to that already had in baptism and confirmation? Perhaps Riley's Christian Initiation would help with that (trying to find it, looks like NYPL doesn't have it!)? Like when Cyril talks about anointing, is he talking about that of Confirmation/Chrismation, or a separate anointing? It seems like when traditional Christians talk about initiation and the mysteries, they are talking about "the 7 sacraments", and don't really have a sense of additional esoteric rites involved in initiation, so it's interesting to see how the ancient Israelites and Christians would have viewed such things (it seems like the Christian gnostics had a sense of additional esoteric rites, such as Redemption and the Bridal Chamber, that the orthodox Christians didn't have).

[MormonMason]

Thanks! Really good thread, covers many of the things I'm interested in. I think critics far too often are quick to say something like "Mormons practice Freemasonry in their temples!! It was all stolen from Freemasonry, there's nothing else to it!". Reading about ancient parallels to the LDS temple ordinances, whether talking about the importance of the Creation in esoteric rites, prayer circles, the importance of washing, anointing, and sacred clothing (I love the Initiatory and the blessings pronounced within it), etc, if anything, it shows that even if it's true that the LDS temple ordinances are not in fact valid ordinances practiced throughout time, the critics must better account for where they came from, instead of just claiming it came from Freemasonry, since many, if not most aspects of temple ordinances find no Masonic parallels (hope I'm being as vague as possible!).

There are also interesting parallels with the Egyptian Opening of the Mouth ceremony. And, it is true that most of the temple ceremonies have no parallel with the rituals of Freemasonry. A number that seem to do belong to rites to which Joseph Smith did not belong, and which had no presence in Nauvoo or in the area, such as the various elements that come from the Order of the Royal Secret (also known to some writers as the Rite of Perfection) or from the Scottish Rite, which had no presence in Illinois until well after Joseph Smith's death.

[ChristKnight]

There are also interesting parallels with the Egyptian Opening of the Mouth ceremony. And, it is true that most of the temple ceremonies have no parallel with the rituals of Freemasonry. A number that seem to do belong to rites to which Joseph Smith did not belong, and which had no presence in Nauvoo or in the area, such as the various elements that come from the Order of the Royal Secret (also known to some writers as the Rite of Perfection) or from the Scottish Rite, which had no presence in Illinois until well after Joseph Smith's death.

Thanks. I've always been curious about Freemasonry, specifically the Scottish Rite (I visited the House of the Temple when I lived in DC), and have been tempted to join (until my Catholic brain would kick in and say "no you can't!!"), though I would convince myself that at 26, I'm too young . One of my coworkers is actually going about the process of joining Freemasonry at the moment.

The fact that the elements of the Endowment that do find similarity to Freemasonry are found in rites that Joseph Smith didn't belong to is interesting in itself. Perhaps another thread, another time.