What I Think I Know About Joseph Smith Jr.

[EllenMaksoud]

If .... if.... if..... speculations without good foundations. Yeah. And if wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak

Horse meat is like totally haraam dude !

Edited March 22, 2013 by EllenMaksoud

[USU78]

Smith was the family name.

His paternal ancestor (named Smith) came from Sutterton in Lincolnshire, England.

Let's just pretend this piling on post of mine never happened . . .

Edited March 22, 2013 by USU78

[MormonMason]

Horse meat is like totally haraam dude !

Only one school (that of Maliki) of the four schools prohibits eating of horse meat. Of course, that school allows eating of predatory animals with fangs and Muhammad forbid it. Apparently, Muhammad himself allowed eating of horsemeat. Consider the following:

Narrated by: Jabir bin 'Abdullah: On the Day of the battle of Khaibar, Allah's Apostle made donkey's meat unlawful and allowed the eating of horse flesh.

Narrated by: Ibn 'Umar: The Prophet made the meat of donkeys unlawful on the day of the battle of Khaibar.

Narrated by: Ibn 'Umar: The Prophet prohibited the eating of donkey's meat.

Narrated by: 'Ali: Allah's Apostle prohibited Al-Mut'a marriage and the eating of donkey's meat in the year of the Khaibar battle.

Narrated by: Jabir bin 'Abdullah: The Prophet prohibited the eating of donkey's meat on the day of the battle of Khaibar, and allowed the eating of horse flesh.

(Sahih al-Bukhari 67:46-50; bold emphasis mine)

Consider also the words of A'ishah's half-sister:

Narrated by: Asma': We slaughtered a horse (by Dhabh) during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle while we were at Medina, and we ate it.

(Sahih al-Bukhari 67:36; bold emphasis mine)

[EllenMaksoud]

Only one school (that of Maliki) of the four schools prohibits eating of horse meat. Of course, that school allows eating of predatory animals with fangs and Muhammad forbid it. Apparently, Muhammad himself allowed eating of horsemeat. Consider the following:

Consider also the words of A'ishah's half-sister:

LOL I was thinking of the OT, which Muslims say they follow. They call it, "The Book* ". And, not knowing for sure, might I speculate that Sr. Asma and her party were perhaps desperate for food? Islamic custom allows for eating even pork if there is nothing else to eat. From my exposure to Muslims, it is my opinion that they are just as fragmented as *Christians version 8.1. **Having seen their versions of "The Book", I saw that they have their own versions of the Jewish holy book. It gets funner and funner.

** Of course the Mormons are Christianity version 1.0.

Edited March 22, 2013 by EllenMaksoud

[MormonMason]

LOL I was thinking of the OT, which Muslims say they follow. They call it, "The Book* ". And, not knowing for sure, might I speculate that Sr. Asma and her party were perhaps desperate for food? Islamic custom allows for eating even pork if there is nothing else to eat. From my exposure to Muslims, it is my opinion that they are just as fragmented as *Christians version 8.1. **Having seen their versions of "The Book", I saw that they have their own versions of the Jewish holy book. It gets funner and funner.

** Of course the Mormons are Christianity version 1.0.

True enough. Jews are forbidden to eat horses and camels by the currently existing version of the Torah (Taurat). Arabs (unless adhering to the school of Maliki), on the other hand, can do both. But, then the cultures are so different in places that even translations of the Bible in places wouldn't make sense to many Arabs without an additional footnote or two.

Consider the parable involving the two sons who are asked by their father to go out and do something. For the purposes of the biblical story, the good son is the one who refused but afterward did what the father asked and the bad son is the other one who said he would do but did not. For the Arab, the former son is the bad son! No traditional Arab son would disrespect his father like that!

On the other hand, the son who said he would do it but did not, did not do so because it was not Allah's will that he accomplish his father's wishes! "Insha' Allah" is ubiquitous in Islamic culture. You will often hear someone of that culture say "As Allah wills..." when asked to complete a task. If the task is not completed, Allah did not will it to be done and no one can be faulted because of being prevented by the will of Allah!

Believe me, I am not trying to insult but state what I have observed over the several decades of my life. Have you seen this?

[EllenMaksoud]

My only experience with Islam was in the US, and it was with both Shia and Sunni. From what I hear of other American women who have been overseas as Muslim wives, their experiences were very different than mine. And, yes I have heard tales of extreme laziness, using Allah SWT as a shield, by using, "Inshallah". It was a mixed bag for me in America. I was greatly weakened at the time because I was just coming out of a completely unexpected divorce and the subsequent destruction of my whole life. I have to say that if the Mormons had not rescued me ...

At times my experiences were humbling, some infuriating, some crushing, and some really funny. Almost as soon as I said my Shahadda a man told me to wear Niqab, and I did it. This only lasted a short time because even in super liberal Portland, Oregon, on the campus of PSU, people said very nasty and threatening things to me. There is no protection in Niqab in America. Funny, because in Saudia, I am told that Niqab is protection.

I still giggle because one day, I had two sisters over, and was cliping nails after prayer, and dropping them in trash can. One sister, a Shia from Al Kobar, freaked out and told me that I must take clippings into the bathroom and flush them because the evil jenn eat them! She was extremely emphatic and also insisted I shut bathroom door to trap them! Another one came when I was attending classes at Shia Masjid where one of the sisters was hunting for an online authority that would permit her to wear nail polish! LOLOLOLOL. The Shia are unique in that if you do not like what your Imam tells you, then you can find someone else to be under.

I think my experience with the Shia was much more agreeable than with the conservative Sunnis. I would be interested to hear your opinion of their 12 Imams and the fact that they believe Imam Mahadi is alive on earth today. If I am not mistaken, I think that some LDS practice that Jesus Christ is alive on earth today, though I have not talked to him.

It is hard at times even now, because once in a while when I leave the house, I feel the cold air on my head and have a flash of panic at my absent Hijab. I still often answer the phone with "As Salaam Alaykum, this is Khadijah". The culture penetrated clear to my bone marrow. Thankfully, those in my Ward have been uncommonly understanding.

[CASteinman]

So you haven't. It has nothing to do with DNA. It points out that the boards in the Jail aren't even contemporary with the Martyrdom. It also has nothing to do with any of the Church's truth-claims.

What difference does it make?

[CASteinman]

If I am not mistaken, I think that some LDS practice that Jesus Christ is alive on earth today, though I have not talked to him.

This would generally be an apostate belief. We have it by revelation as follows: "And again, verily I say unto you, that the Son of Man cometh not in the form of a woman, neither of a man traveling on the earth."

[EllenMaksoud]

This would generally be an apostate belief. We have it by revelation as follows: "And again, verily I say unto you, that the Son of Man cometh not in the form of a woman, neither of a man traveling on the earth."

I had wondered where the idea came from. I read so much and talk to so many people that it is hard to keep it all sorted.

[bcuzbcuz]

I think that there is so much going on with Muslims and Islam in the world that there is no 'statement' that can be made to categorize them very well. But weirdly that is exactly how Americans tend to look at muslims. Like they are all one 'raghead' group. I actually see this at one of the places I work where I sometimes speak up for Muslims in a community of people who do not have the time to actually study the people that they find contemptible. I speak up for them boldly and (just like here in this forum now that I think about it) people do not like what I have to say. I suppose I am a gadfly. Maybe I don't say it in a way that helps my cause. In any case, at this place where I work sometimes they have labeled me the "MusSimp" for "Muslim Sympathizer". But this sort of thing does not bother me. I say "yes, exactly!" and go on.

I am sorry you have faced this issue. I actually feel some generosity toward muslim women who wear modest clothing and headdress and I always try to make it a point look them directly in the face and get their eyes and make sure that they can see that I notice them as a person because I suspect they get overlooked or people are afraid of them.

Having said that, the stereotypes are not entirely without a reason. Islam is in turmoil and troubles around the world seem to be centered near or around muslim populations. This creates suspicion.

I agree for the most part, and like you, would take pleasure in being called a Muslim sympathizer. I have a sister-in-law who lives in Egypt and my wife and I have spent a couple of months in Egypt, Turkey and Tunisia. We were in Egypt one month prior to the overthrowing of Mubarak and in Tunisia three weeks before the latest anti-government demonstrations broke out that forced the retirement of Jebali.

We have nothing but good to say about how we were treated. Whether from old ladies, in the village poor quarters, who covered their faces and warmly greeted each morning as we passed, to the lighthearted and cheerful teenagers who practiced their English and gave hugs to me and to my wife, a thank you kiss on her cheek, I find stereotypes un-neighbourly and wrong. It would be the same as calling all Americans gun-loving rascists based on reports about the Ku Klux Klan. It is not enough to say the stereotype is not without reason or purpose.

A stereotype makes pre-judgement easier and justified every time something wrong happens but blatantly ignores all the good.

I think it will take many years of struggle, with many ups and downs in political fortunes and welfare of the peoples, in countries like Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Morocco, Algeria and hopefully Syria before life there returns to a calmer normal. Whether democracy will flourish is anyones guess, but the people in these countries will try to find a balance between newly won freedoms and age-old customs. The road to democracy in European countries was far from an easy jaunt in the park and American history is likewise a list of battles and struggles. Democracy is threatened in many countries by corruption and international monies that favor the rich and punish the poor. I don't expect the final outcome in the Arab world to be anything like what we assume freedom and liberties lead to.

But I find your comments refreshing and enlightening.

[Stargazer]

Horse meat is like totally haraam dude !

On my mission in Germany, m companion and I had dinner at one home, and the member served us this really delicious meat. It seemed like beef, but when I asked her she said it was horse (which in Germany at that time was legal although generally considered as a "poor persons" meat). I was astonished, and then had a second serving.

She was a little hesitant to admit to it being horse, but it didn't bother me -- apparently during the Depression when she was a little girl, her mother served horse one time and her father thought the meat was great until he found out it was horse. Then he had to leave the table and, ahem, well, he got rid of it.

[EllenMaksoud]

On my mission in Germany, m companion and I had dinner at one home, and the member served us this really delicious meat. It seemed like beef, but when I asked her she said it was horse (which in Germany at that time was legal although generally considered as a "poor persons" meat). I was astonished, and then had a second serving.

She was a little hesitant to admit to it being horse, but it didn't bother me -- apparently during the Depression when she was a little girl, her mother served horse one time and her father thought the meat was great until he found out it was horse. Then he had to leave the table and, ahem, well, he got rid of it.

I think my stepfather brought horse home one time and we ate some but when my mother found out, they had a terrible ruction. I really like sheep and goat, but it is my wish to have some camel meat some day. It is apparently only for the very rich in Saudia. This is not likely to happen.

[Stargazer]

I think my stepfather brought horse home one time and we ate some but when my mother found out, they had a terrible ruction. I really like sheep and goat, but it is my wish to have some camel meat some day. It is apparently only for the very rich in Saudia. This is not likely to happen.

OMG! Horse is haraam, but camel is not? Seems a bit odd, but...

Camel must taste great, then. Now you got me wondering how I can find some. Probably not going to happen, as you say.

[Calm]

Camel must taste great, then. Now you got me wondering how I can find some. Probably not going to happen, as you say.

http://www.theoldfoodie.com/2007/07/eating-camel.html

[jana at jade house]

We sampled camel's paw in China. We were not impressed. and sea cucumber is dreadful.

[Avatar4321]

I struggled greatly with changing back to American culture. The Muslim religion will always be with me, because as far as I am concerned Muslims are a great deal like Mormons, except they do not show Jesus Christ proper respect. I have permission to wear my hijab at church, and whether it be my Amish background or my Muslim background, I am still very modest. I have tried to abandon my Muslim modesty and dress like Mormon women and it is trying. Not that Mormon women are not modest, but my knees are not a thing of beauty.

In Islam, a woman can look a man in the eyes ONCE. She is not to smile at him or look twice. Perhaps it would be easier for them if you simply said Salaam Alaykum as a greeting. If they say Salaam Alaykum to you, then the correct response is Wa Alaykum Salaam.

I am finally able to look a man in the eyes and speak to him, but NOW I have been corrected for flirting. Wallah! What is a woman to do? I may be the only woman to ever have told the Stake President that it was the prophet Muhammad PBUH and my belief in the Qur'an that made the leap to Joseph Smith and the Bom easier.

You dont have to show your knees you know. Just saying:)

[CASteinman]

I think I had Camel meat a couple of times. Shawarma. As I recall, I was not able to tell it from goat very well -- except that maybe the goat had a bit more flavor. It might be how they were prepared.

[EllenMaksoud]

OMG! Horse is haraam, but camel is not? Seems a bit odd, but...

Camel must taste great, then. Now you got me wondering how I can find some. Probably not going to happen, as you say.

It is generally for the very rich in Saudia, and I have never had any. If you go back to the Old Testament, in the dietary laws, um I think perhaps in Leviticus, Camel is Halal (Permissible) because it is cloven hoof. Of course, in my opinion a camel's foot is no hoof at all, but foot pads, like dog, which is very Haraam (Forbidden). These things get very confusing and require scholar to answer. At least that is what I was told when asking complicated question. It seems that man with longest beard and beadiest eyes had this authority.