Lent

[Calm]

It is up to the individual.

CFR the temporary sacrifice can be sins as well as luxuries/good things in life. The idea that one gives up premarital sex or some other sin just for a short time so that they can experience something of what God---who was sinless all his life---felt in the sacrifices he made for mankind seems rather backwards.

Fasting in the time of Lent is the expression of our solidarity with Christ. Such was the meaning of Lent throughout the centuries and such it remains today....

It is necessary to give this question a wider and deeper answer, in order to clarify the relationship between fasting and "metanoia", that is, that spiritual change which brings man closer to God. We will try therefore to concentrate not only on the practice of abstention from food or from drink— that, in fact, is the meaning of "fasting" in the common sense—but on the deeper meaning of this practice which, moreover, can and must sometimes be "replaced" by another one. Food and drink are indispensable for man to live, he uses them and must use them, but he may not abuse them in any way. The traditional abstention from food and drink has as its purpose to introduce into man's existence not only the necessary balance, but also detachment from what might be defined a "consumer attitude". In our times this attitude has become one of the characteristics of civilization and in particular of Western civilization. The consumer attitude!

Man geared to material goods, multiple material goods, very often abuses them. It is not a question here lust of food and drink....

It is seen from this that modern man must fast, that is, abstain not only from food or drink, but from many other means of consumption, stimulation, satisfaction of the senses. To fast means to abstain, to renounce something...

Renunciation of sensations, stimuli, pleasures and even food or drink, is not an end in itself. It must only, so to speak, prepare the way for deeper contents by which the interior man "is nourished". This renunciation, this mortification must serve to create in man the conditions to be able to live the superior values, for which he, in his own way, hungers.

http://www.vatican.v...9790321_en.html

Edited February 16, 2013 by calmoriah

[saemo]

You are acting as if the only things given up for Lent are sins, but it would seem from the descriptions this is not in line with what is meant by making sacrifices for this holy time, that Catholics are instructed to give up sins at all times (of course) and Lent is something in a different category.

For Lent, LDS could give up going to the temple, listening to the MTC, reading FARMS/MI books, posting on message boards, doing genealogy or a thousand other things that are wonderful and good and that they enjoy and could put aside that enjoyment for 40 days in order to experience in some small way God's putting aside his enjoyment of life for mankind (if I understand the purpose of Lent correctly, if not I apologize...tell me and I will go reread the posts with more concentration).

Posting on message boards, yes, I know a few people who do this. The rest of your list I couldn't see giving up for lent.

The idea is to join our sacrifice to Christ's, which is rooted in how Catholics view suffering. I don't know of a comparison to make in Mormonism, since suffering is viewed differently.

As for the idea posted about giving up sins for lent. Yes, please do, as lent is also a time of repentnace, with the intention of never committing the sin(s) again. But lent is not a time for judging others, it is a time for deepened devotions. More prayer, fasting and alms giving than at any other time of the year, but it doesn't mean we aren't doing these things the rest of the year.

The best description of lent is found in the readings for Ash Wednesday, here.

http://usccb.org/bible/readings/021313.cfm

Edited February 16, 2013 by saemo

[Calm]

Lent is traditionally described as lasting for forty days, in commemoration of the forty days which, according to the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke, Jesus spent fasting in the desert before the beginning of his public ministry, where he endured temptation by the Devil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lent

If one is to connect in one's mind with Christ's fast in the desert, then the idea of giving up sin for 40 days rather than something that is 'nutritional' to the soul or body doesn't, again in my view, really follow through.

If one were to use Lent to give up a sin, IOW, attempt to completely abandon it with no intention of returning, that would make sense, but in your example of your friend, it would be in my view an insult to his faith to set aside his sin for only the period of Lent while always intending to return to it as there would be no real purification or sanctification of the soul going on....but perhaps Catholics view it differently.

Edited February 16, 2013 by calmoriah

[saemo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lent

If one is to connect in one's mind with Christ's fast in the desert, then the idea of giving up sin for 40 days rather than something that is 'nutritional' to the soul or body doesn't, again in my view, really follow through.

If one were to use Lent to give up a sin, IOW, attempt to completely abandon it with no intention of returning, that would make sense, but in your example of your friend, it would be in my view an insult to his faith to set aside his sin for only the period of Lent while always intending to return to it as there would be no real purification or sanctification of the soul going on....but perhaps Catholics view it differently.

Three or more different things going on during lent. One is fasting, prayer and alms giving. The 40 days is tied to Jesus' fast of forty days. Repentance is the major theme/idea/practice of lent. Giving something up for lent is tied to Jesus' suffering on the Cross, not so much his 40 days in the desert.

What you give up for lent is a personal choice. Sometimes, you can't think of anything profound, so the choice for a lot of people are chocolate, sugar, tv, Internet or alcohol.

Edited February 16, 2013 by saemo

[Calm]

Sometimes, you can't think of anything profound, so the choice for a lot of people are chocolate, sugar, tv, Internet or alcohol.

None of those things seem particularly 'sinful' so why would they be tied to the idea of repentance rather than fasting?

[3DOP]

Thanks for the reply why me. I haven't always observed Lent as I now do. Let them age. Let them mature. For that matter, let me mature. I hope I have a fruitful Lent.

why me

I don't think that many Catholics who are observing Lent at this moment are in deep reflection for 40 days.

3DOP

Perhaps not. My post was not addressed to Mormons who wished to have a mediocre spiritual life, but to those who think they see the value of a season which has potential for being an annual retreat modelled after irreproachable examples from Holy Scripture. Your experience with mediocre Catholics is regrettable. I once heard about a mediocre Mormon. Do you doubt it? In any event, an annual exercise such as the Catholic Lent allows for those who wish to participate, to do so both privately and publicly, with minimal or maximum effort, and they will receive their fruits.

why me

But they are engaged in a sacrifice and yes, for some it may be chocolate, premarital sex, alcohol, donuts etc.

3DOP

Premarital sex? You think there are a lot of Catholics who think they are gaining God's favor by giving up sinful activites and offering it to God? As discouraged as I can be at the crisis in the Church, I am skeptical that this is common at all. The Church still teaches very clearly that our sacrifices must be licit pleasures. But "giving up something" is of lesser importance for a proper observance of Lent. It is a custom that is completely voluntary. It is alright to add something if you want, but it isn't necessary at all. The public worship and discipline that goes with Lent is of far greater importance in reminding the faithful of the great love God has for us in Christ's Passion and Death and by which we were redeemed.

why me

I know someone who is not eating his favorite cookies.

3DOP

You're right. Cookies aren't very important. That is unless they are offered with love to our Saviour who unites them with His own suffering and passion. I am not going to say cookies are huge in themselves, but in His goodness God magnifies even the slightest of our offerings which are motivated by love for Him. Undoubtedly, in our age as in many others, the understanding of a custom to some, can be a legal exercise of some kind. Certainly the foolish parties you mention, who are giving up illicit sexual activities, have a complete misunderstanding of God's law and God's love. But because good customs and disciplines can be misapplied, is still no argument against their correct application.

why me

But for Mormons who are asked to pray daily, avoid premarital sex, alcohol, coffee, read the scriptures daily etc, life can seem like a giving up of something. Although it should not be looked that way. So, it can seem that Mormons are engaged in some aspect of Lent for 365 days. And yes, mormons do laugh and enjoy life too. Or at least they should.

3DOP

Alcohol and coffee are allowed for us. As licit pleasures, they can be good sacrifices for us. Do Mormons badly want those things? Many threads I have seen talk about how coffee stinks; its bad for your health; and alcohol seems hated even more. Is it a constant sacrifice to give up something that most of you don't seem to desire in the first place? Pre-marital sex is not allowed for us either.

St. Alphonsus Liguori soberly warns Catholics that without prayer we will not make it to heaven. St. Jerome says that ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. I am emphatically not recommending a prayerless, ignorant, mediocre Lent to anyone. For those who do not even pray, I don't how they would love God. Do we ignore those we love or do we speak with them and try to know them better? I thought you were at one time favorable to the Catholic faith. Don't judge the rest of us by your experience at non-"Catholic Answers". Even they would know that we have to pray.

That said, I do see your point and concede that you are engaged in some aspect of Lent 365 days. Good. Some aspect. Yes. We are to take up our crosses daily. We have to always be on our guards lest our eyes, ears, or mouth betray us. Everyday should be a little Lent, and we cannot forget the resurrection joy that lies before us to help us through all times and seasons.

Christ fasted forty days, so did Moses and Elijah. All three appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration. Surely that is what we want, to be changed. Who that loves God could be satisfied that his love has reached the right proportion? If we hope one day to be transfigured ourselves, it seems like we have a threefold testimony to a proper length of time for extra Christian austerity, prayer, and soul searching.

Maybe, one of these years, the guy or gal who only thinks of Lent as giving up a cookie, or even giving up something sinful, will realize that there is a lot of potential for individual interior growth with the helps and graces that derive from the Lenten prayers and disciplines of their Church. We are all on journeys. A proper observance of the forty days of Lent seems pretty intense to me. It would seem intolerable to never have relief from it year after year. It isn't even the fasting so much as the mood. Jesus only stayed in the tomb three days. I just don't think most of us are geared to unvarying gloom. Make no mistake, Holy Week is gloomy. The observances of the Church during this time make you feel the spiritual desolation that the Apostles and the faithful women at the Cross must have felt. I don't think there would be any Catholics left if we had Lent year round. Approximately one day out of nine in the year is Lent. Good Friday nine times a year? No way. Psychological torture. Impossible. Do you know what we do on Good Friday? Do you know how it looks in the church? Do you know where the Blessed Sacrament resides during this time? Cookies and cupcakes aren't even on my radar when I am thinking of the austere, but hopeful, sorrows and joys of Lent.

It seems to me like as with all medicine, you can overdose. Some aspect everyday, yes. But Lent is a lot of medicine. Along with prescriptions that I couldn't keep taking, I was recently told to hammer down 2400 mg of Ibuprofen a day for a certain condition I had. But only for a few weeks. It would kill most of us to take so much spiritual medicine at once, except for a short period. Perhaps some of your fellow LDS grow weary of 365 days of some aspect of Lent, with little variation. That is how I interpret the positive view I see from a handful of Mormons every year at this time, apparently interested in our annual observance where we think it is healthy for a brief season to "kick it up a notch", followed by attention on happier tidings.

Regards,

3DOP

Edited February 16, 2013 by 3DOP

[saemo]

None of those things seem particularly 'sinful' so why would they be tied to the idea of repentance rather than fasting?

They are tied to the suffering of Jesus on the Cross. The small suffering of giving up a licit pleasure, as 3DOP so clearly expressed, is offered to Christ. Our repentance and forgiveness is tied to Him.

Honestly, as I was thinking on this very thing a week or so ago, I thought that the world had enough suffering already. So here we are, intentially making a very small and insignificant suffering in our own lives. As though, not watching tv is "suffering". I read the lenten message today of the presiding bishop of the Episcopalian church, who suggested that fasting and alms giving unite us to those who are suffering. In the same way, we are united to Christ, who said "pick up your cross and follow me". And also taught us to unite ourselves to those who suffer, by offering them relief. Good words. Then I read pope Benedict's Lenten address, and he said, the greatest charity we can offer is the word of God, what Catholics call evangelization.

Giving something up is a small gesture which signifies not only our solidarity to those in need, but underlines our need for God. We don't need chocolate, we need the word of God. If we give up a small treasure, whatever it may be, we can fill it with something else. More prayer, more study, a few more dollars to give to the poor. Every Lenten retreat I've been to encourages adding something for lent, as well as giving something up.

Edited February 16, 2013 by saemo

[Calm]

They are tied to the suffering of Jesus on the Cross. The small suffering of giving up a licit pleasure, as 3DOP so clearly expressed, is offered to Christ. Our repentance and forgiveness is tied to Him.

I am still not getting at how Lent is a time of repentance when what is being given up are licit pleasures. If you mean you are reminded to repent by thinking of the suffering of Christ and perhaps be driven to give up illicit pleasures as well during this time and beyond, that makes sense to me...but I don't see a direct connection between giving up licit pleasures and repenting.

[saemo]

I guess calmoriah, the best answer is the season itself. It is before Easter, and so we prepare for the coming of our Lord. It simultaneously is a remembrance of the suffering of Jesus on the Cross, but we aren't like the apostles and disciples who mourned our dead Lord for three days. Thinking, that was it, he's gone. We know the story, we know what happens. So we prepare, for the coming of our Lord, which for Catholics is a three fold belief. Christ is risen, He is made present to us at every Mass, body and blood, and He will come again.

We have the view that Christ is King, he reigns now over the Kingdom of Heaven, which is made present in His Church. We are called to act like this is what we believe. Christ taught us to fast and pray, to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick and prisoners...for the Kingdom of Heaven. So that is what we should be doing, and many are doing, all year round. Because lent precedes Easter,, we intensify these practices for 40 days. As 3DOP so clearly stated, all have their own journey, but lent for me is always "killer", so to speak. By Easter I am so tired! But so joyous, and so happy when we sing alleluia, that my stupid soft heart tears up every time (embarrassing!).

[saemo]

I am still not getting at how Lent is a time of repentance when what is being given up are licit pleasures. If you mean you are reminded to repent by thinking of the suffering of Christ and perhaps be driven to give up illicit pleasures as well during this time and beyond, that makes sense to me...but I don't see a direct connection between giving up licit pleasures and repenting.

The connection is Jesus, who suffered and died on the cross, for my sins. As I said, we view suffering differently than LDS, and I can't think of a comparison. We offer our suffering to Jesus, as penance for our sins. This is true for any suffering that we experience. If you ever relate to a group of Catholics your long story of woes, and how this bad thing happened to you, and then that thing happened, and then another thing happened....that type of story, you are guaranteed to get the same response: "Offer it up!" In my conversion, it was such a foreign idea, that it took my own period of suffering to understand. While praying in a church, with a very large crucifix in front of me, I finally got it.

[3DOP]

I am still not getting at how Lent is a time of repentance when what is being given up are licit pleasures. If you mean you are reminded to repent by thinking of the suffering of Christ and perhaps be driven to give up illicit pleasures as well during this time and beyond, that makes sense to me...but I don't see a direct connection between giving up licit pleasures and repenting.

Think of the Old Testament sacrifices cal. All proper sacrifices have to be good things. How about that lamb without blemish that played around with the family? Think about God's sacrifice. His Son. How could we be satisfied with merely giving our sins up when we see what God gave up for us? Or even when we see what the faithful in the Old Testament gave up. Nothing broken or bruised. The best. Even though God has no need, devotion for a beloved is unsatisfied without making a sacrifice to show that love.

[3DOP]

The connection is Jesus, who suffered and died on the cross, for my sins. As I said, we view suffering differently than LDS, and I can't think of a comparison. We offer our suffering to Jesus, as penance for our sins. This is true for any suffering that we experience. If you ever relate to a group of Catholics your long story of woes, and how this bad thing happened to you, and then that thing happened, and then another thing happened....that type of story, you are guaranteed to get the same response: "Offer it up!" In my conversion, it was such a foreign idea, that it took my own period of suffering to understand. While praying in a church, with a very large crucifix in front of me, I finally got it.

Hey saemo, thanks for the nice remarks. I don't think I am misunderstanding you, so please correct if i am. I think you are very correct about how the idea of the benefits suffering is foreign. To someone unfamiliar, I am afraid that my post could appear to be in conflict when I think we both know they are not.

So to clarify both of our points, I want to try to tie in what you just said about our sufferings, with what I just said about our sacrifices needing to be good things. When we "offer up" our physical sufferings what we are really saying is that we don't want to squander an opportunity to let God know that our good health belongs to Him. Even though it is already taken, as an exercise in seeing God's hand even in what the world thinks of as bad, our willingness to be resigned to ill health is a most worthy sacrifice. And one that is very hard to make...In this case, the good which we are willing to sacrifice is our health. Sometimes, even though it doesn't help, it is really hard to embrace that chronic condition, headache, or even little nagging aches and to be willing to say to God in those times that our health belongs to Him to dispose of.

3DOP

[Calm]

Hey saemo, thanks for the nice remarks. I don't think I am misunderstanding you, so please correct if i am. I think you are very correct about how the idea of the benefits suffering is foreign. To someone unfamiliar, I am afraid that my post could appear to be in conflict when I think we both know they are not.

So to clarify both of our points, I want to try to tie in what you just said about our sufferings, with what I just said about our sacrifices needing to be good things. When we "offer up" our physical sufferings what we are really saying is that we don't want to squander an opportunity to let God know that our good health belongs to Him. Even though it is already taken, as an exercise in seeing God's hand even in what the world thinks of as bad, our willingness to be resigned to ill health is a most worthy sacrifice. And one that is very hard to make...In this case, the good which we are willing to sacrifice is our health. Sometimes, even though it doesn't help, it is really hard to embrace that chronic condition, headache, or even little nagging aches and to be willing to say to God in those times that our health belongs to Him to dispose of.

3DOP

I see a parallel in the LDS version of enduring to the end whatever trials God sends us. While most would not use the word "embrace" when referring to such troubles, I think in practice that is what we are indeed taught to do as we are taught that God teaches us through our weaknesses, his work is accomplished through the weak things of the earth, etc.

Do you see any resemblance?

[why me]

why me

But they are engaged in a sacrifice and yes, for some it may be chocolate, premarital sex, alcohol, donuts etc.

3DOP

Premarital sex? You think there are a lot of Catholics who think they are gaining God's favor by giving up sinful activites and offering it to God? As discouraged as I can be at the crisis in the Church, I am skeptical that this is common at all.

Regards,

3DOP

In my humble opinion it would be a great opportunity to do so---to give the sins to God in hope that one can continue to abstain. I just think that to abstain from chocolate or something that seems frivolous is not good. We are looking at the savior's supreme sacrifice and to link it with chocolate, sugar etc seems to make light of it all. Now of course, if one is living a righteous life, then by all means continue to live righteously and abstain from chocolate etc for those 40 days. I see no problem in that at all.

[3DOP]

In my humble opinion it would be a great opportunity to do so---to give the sins to God in hope that one can continue to abstain. I just think that to abstain from chocolate or something that seems frivolous is not good. We are looking at the savior's supreme sacrifice and to link it with chocolate, sugar etc seems to make light of it all. Now of course, if one is living a righteous life, then by all means continue to live righteously and abstain from chocolate etc for those 40 days. I see no problem in that at all.

By all means! If Lent triggers a desire to give up sin, "Now is the day of salvation," as said the Apostle." But it is disoriented to believe that Jesus died for our sins, and so we will "give it up" for one out of every nine days of our life. You can't even be absolved of your sins in the confessional with that kind of approach to sin.

You spoke of excommunication. Does this young person you know who "gives up illicit sex" for Lent, know that without confessing his sin with a firm purpose of amendment, that he is committing sacrilege? Does he realize that if he receives Holy Communion while his soul is in such a state, that according to the church, he is "eating and drinking damnation to himself", as the Apostle said? There is no need for a formal trial of every sinner who is unworthy to receive Holy Communion.

It seems bizarre to participate in a religion that describes your lifestyle as a "state of mortal sin". So this poor guy observes his Sunday obligation, receives Holy Communion, goes to Confession frequently, happily supports the church's mission in the collection basket, but he has a grievous sin to give up, but only at Lent? Such a situation would be temporary why me. His sin will go, or he will quit his participation in the Sacraments. I cannot recall such a radical willingness to believe firmly in teachings that are diametrically opposed to one's way of life. You will not see the same person doing this year after year. His faith will grow or diminish. It will not stagnate permanently like this.

You almost make it sound like extra-marital sin is perfectly compatible with the Catholic faith. I would hope that this fellow you know is a fallen away Catholic (not fully participating) who has a spark of desire to retain a faith that maybe he knows from parents or a loving godparent. He probably has people praying fervently for him every day and he is receiving actual graces from God that he doesn't really understand. He is obviously unaware of the moral teachings and sacramental discipline of the faith with which he is trying to continue or re-establish contact. But if a poor soul who may be ignorant of his church's teachings wants to conform for Lent to its moral code, I will not be the one to give it a pooh pooh. With his loved ones who are praying for him, let us ask God for greater graces than this spark of spiritual life which still burns.

It seems unnecessary to tell my Mormon friends that what you describe is hardly a typical Catholic experience of Lent.

3DOP

Edited February 16, 2013 by 3DOP

[3DOP]

I see a parallel in the LDS version of enduring to the end whatever trials God sends us. While most would not use the word "embrace" when referring to such troubles, I think in practice that is what we are indeed taught to do as we are taught that God teaches us through our weaknesses, his work is accomplished through the weak things of the earth, etc.

Do you see any resemblance?

I see a resemblance. Another expression we often use is "holy resignation". Maybe that expresses the meaning better than "embrace". I woke up with some thoughts related to "giving up good things". I need to go see Mom this morning and I might not be at a computer much more until Wednesday, but I hope we can discuss this further somewhere along the line.

Thanks,

3DOP

Edited February 16, 2013 by 3DOP

[3DOP]

double post

Edited February 16, 2013 by 3DOP

[Yirgacheffe]

It seems unnecessary to tell my Mormon friends that what you describe is hardly a typical Catholic experience of Lent.

3DOP

It is unnecessary to tell people like Calmoriah and Blue Dreams this, their approach of seeing the good in others reflects where their hearts are. Sadly there are those here that seem to want to believe the worst in others and no matter what you say will portray them in the worst light reflecting what's in their hearts.

[Calm]

I see a resemblance. Another expression we often use is "holy resignation". Maybe that expresses the meaning better than "embrace". I woke up with some thoughts related to "giving up good things". I need to go see Mom this morning and I might not be at a computer much more until Wednesday, but I hope we can discuss this further somewhere along the line.

Thanks,

3DOP

I have family for the weekend so shouldn't be here at all.

[Buzzard]

Just which Christian denomination teaches that premarital sex is okay unless of course you give it up for lent? And how many Christians who practice lent observances do you think also practice premarital or extra marital sex? The attitude by some on this thread is that LDS are such exemplars of spiritual practice all the time (unlike those Catholics or what ever) that they have no need of a period of reflection. Exactly the attitude of your missionaries at my door. And no the police don't laugh, they send a squad car, presumably to explain to the arrogant ones just what our ordinance means.

Just what we need, a Catholic cop explaining Lent to Mormon missionaries. What do you do if the officer happens to be agnostic? Sounds like a SNL skit to me. Like the Tim Tebow one where the angel in the locker room tells him Mormonism is true. But I digress.

Look, I am not impugning the spirituality of any Catholic or Christian of any denomination. But if by arrogant you mean I believe that the LDS church is the only church with God's priesthood authority on earth, guilty as charged.

Of course, if you are a believing Catholic, I'm sure you feel the same way about your denomination. Hardly makes you arrogant, just a believer. No hard feelings from this end.

[Helen47]

Joking at work what I was giving up for Lent. It was Valentines abd exhanged with partner, Rocky Road and Chocolate. I had vowed for Lent was i was giving up sticking my hands on the communal lolly jar. I saw something more interesting on Patheos about what we could give up for Lent and other parts of the church year.

“Give up complaining—focus on gratitude.

“Give up pessimism—become an optimist.

“Give up harsh judgments—think kindly thoughts.

“Give up worry—trust Divine Providence.

“Give up discouragement—be full of hope.

“Give up bitterness—turn to forgiveness.

“Give up hatred—return good for evil.

“Give up anger—be more patient.

“Give up pettiness—become mature.

“Give up jealousy—pray for trust.

“Give up gossiping—control your tongue.

“Give up sin—turn to virtue.

“Give up giving up—hang in there!”

More than a few of these I struggle with - well here goes.

[why me]

Joking at work what I was giving up for Lent. It was Valentines abd exhanged with partner, Rocky Road and Chocolate. I had vowed for Lent was i was giving up sticking my hands on the communal lolly jar. I saw something more interesting on Patheos about what we could give up for Lent and other parts of the church year.

“Give up complaining—focus on gratitude.

“Give up pessimism—become an optimist.

“Give up harsh judgments—think kindly thoughts.

“Give up worry—trust Divine Providence.

“Give up discouragement—be full of hope.

“Give up bitterness—turn to forgiveness.

“Give up hatred—return good for evil.

“Give up anger—be more patient.

“Give up pettiness—become mature.

“Give up jealousy—pray for trust.

“Give up gossiping—control your tongue.

“Give up sin—turn to virtue.

“Give up giving up—hang in there!”

More than a few of these I struggle with - well here goes.

Believe it or not, the lds are encouraged to do these things throughout the year. And that was a part of my point about the lds celebrating lent all year round.

[savedbygrace]

Question as the "uncalled for". Since when does anyone call for them? Snark must make it's own way.

On the other hand, I thought the comment was amusing, not snarky. Lent, to LDS, is a non-concept. We fast once per month, and giving up something during a particular period is not at all part of our religious observance. I can appreciate that some LDS (such as mercyngrace) might want to honor the faith tradition of others, and other LDS perhaps appreciate such things as patron saints (a Catholic tradition that I, for one, rather like), or other such traditions, but it isn't part of our worship. Thus when Savebygrace wishes us a nice Lent, it is clearly intended as kind-of tongue in cheek. Thus Buzzard's "snarky" remark.

not so my friend, the wish is sincere. Lent is a time of reflection, penence, re-evaluationof your life before God, a time of prayer and fasting in preparation for the celebration of Easter. It is a holy time, the was no toungue in cheek intention, time out with God and recommiting to him is worthwhile to us all

[Yirgacheffe]

Just what we need, a Catholic cop explaining Lent to Mormon missionaries. What do you do if the officer happens to be agnostic? Sounds like a SNL skit to me. Like the Tim Tebow one where the angel in the locker room tells him Mormonism is true. But I digress.

Look, I am not impugning the spirituality of any Catholic or Christian of any denomination. But if by arrogant you mean I believe that the LDS church is the only church with God's priesthood authority on earth, guilty as charged.

Of course, if you are a believing Catholic, I'm sure you feel the same way about your denomination. Hardly makes you arrogant, just a believer. No hard feelings from this end.

Catholic, agnostic, LDS, JW it doesn't matter, posted no soliciting signs are to be honored and yes to police do come and explain to them that they are not allowed to knock on posted doors. And the arrogance has nothing to do with that "the LDS church is the only church with God's priesthood authority on earth" and everything to do with the attitude that LDS have no need for a period of reflection because they are already far better than those base members of other churches. The attitude is raised again just 2 posts above.

[Storm Rider]

Religion can be filled with symbolism that can certainly create warmth. In the Orthodox Church there are many symbols that can bring the human being closer to god just because of the symbols. The constant making of the cross, the candles that constantly burn during their service, the observance of lent etc. And in the catholic faith, one can also find symbolisms. But I suppose that in the lds faith, the symbolism is in the life that one leads. There are no icons, statues, crosses, etc. But there is the way of life which becomes its own symbol that god lives.

That being said, the lds do have quiet symbols: the partaking of the sacrament, priesthood blessings, and personal prayer, daily scripture reading, family prayer etc. And believe it or not, living the word of chasity is a sacrifice. That is a 365 day Lent observance.

Hello my friend, I appreciate what you have written, but my point is celebrations. As a Church we don't really celebrate any spiritual holidays (except for maybe Pioneer Day, but that happens outside of Sunday services). Can you see a difference? I still don't see why we have stopped celebrating special events. I do see a need for celebrating in events in life. This may be more a reflection of US culture; I find Arabs and Latinos far more interested in celebrating together than Americans. Our culture seems overly focused on working and has lost almost all ability to really celebrate in any meaningful way.