Inherited Sin From Adam

[theplains]

This is a teaching I came across in the 1924 edition of "The Articles of Faith". A scanned

image of 2 pages is attached so that you can see the entire context. The key phrase is on

page 87, line 3.

Would this explain why children are mortal when conceived?

Thanks,

Jim

[ksfisher]

This doesn't answer your question, but if the child's parents were mortal how could the child not be mortal?

[Ahab]

This is a teaching I came across in the 1924 edition of "The Articles of Faith". A scanned

image of 2 pages is attached so that you can see the entire context. The key phrase is on

page 87, line 3.

Would this explain why children are mortal when conceived?

Thanks,

Jim

Yes. It's part of the curse we inherit from our (great great great great... great grand) parents, Adam and Eve.

[Ahab]

This doesn't answer your question, but if the child's parents were mortal how could the child not be mortal?

Actually, we're all immortal. It's only our present body of flesh which is mortal, which is why at some point we will leave it.

... and then when our body is resurrected and glorified, we'll enter into it, again.

[Maidservant]

Sin is not to be understood as badness, but as separation.

[ksfisher]

Sin is not to be understood as badness, but as separation.

It's bad to be seperated :-)

[volgadon]

This is a teaching I came across in the 1924 edition of "The Articles of Faith". A scanned

image of 2 pages is attached so that you can see the entire context. The key phrase is on

page 87, line 3.

Would this explain why children are mortal when conceived?

Thanks,

Jim

I'm curious,have you read the actual article of faith?

[Five Solas]

I'm curious,have you read the actual...

Have to say, I didn't much enjoy such questions the other day when you were putting them to me, volgadon, on the subject of Levirate marriage. Came across as condescending. (Especially when you repeatedly refused to answer my question whether you shared Stargazer's opinion on Matthew 22/Jesus's answer to the Sadducees).

But I'll give you this. Scanning through this thread and seeing your question prompted me to click the link and read the passage. And for what it's worth, this is the first time I recall ever seeing use of the word "propitiation" in an LDS text where the writer doesn't seem to mean the word as synonymous with "atonement"--as the LDS Bible dictionary suggests.

For what it's worth...

--Erik

Edited February 8, 2013 by Five Solas

[volgadon]

Have to say, I didn't much enjoy such questions the other day when you were putting them to me, volgadon, on the subject of Levirate marriage. Came across as condescending. (Especially when you repeatedly refused to answer my question whether you shared Stargazer's opinion on Matthew 22/Jesus's answer to the Sadducees).

I asked so many questions because, frankly, you never really seemed to answer, and then you tried to pit me against someone else. Enjoyable, innit.

But I'll give you this. Scanning through this thread and seeing your question prompted me to click the link and read the passage. And for what it's worth, this is the first time I recall ever seeing use of the word "propitiation" in an LDS text where the writer doesn't seem to mean the word as synonymous with "atonement"--as the LDS Bible dictionary suggests.

For what it's worth...

--Erik

Talmage's book is great, but I really do want to know if theplains has read the actual articles of faith. It would seem odd to me to be casually reading a far larger, heavier work before reading the original thirteen articles, but you never know. The original article of faith also helps place Talmage's quote in its larger context.

[BCSpace]

53 And our father Adam spake unto the Lord, and said: Why is it that men must repent and be baptized in water? And the Lord said unto Adam: Behold I have forgiven thee thy transgression in the Garden of Eden.

54 Hence came the saying abroad among the people, that the Son of God hath atoned for original guilt, wherein the sins of the parents cannot be answered upon the heads of the children, for they are whole from the foundation of the world.

55 And the Lord spake unto Adam, saying: Inasmuch as thy children are conceived in sin, even so when they begin to grow up, sin conceiveth in their hearts, and they taste the bitter, that they may know to prize the good.

56 And it is given unto them to know good from evil; wherefore they are agents unto themselves, and I have given unto you another law and commandment.

57 Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.

58 Therefore I give unto you a commandment, to teach these things freely unto your children, saying:

59 That by reason of transgression cometh the fall, which fall bringeth death, and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit, which I have made, and so became of dust a living soul, even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven, of water, and of the Spirit, and be cleansed by blood, even the blood of mine Only Begotten; that ye might be sanctified from all sin, and enjoy the words of eternal life in this world, and eternal life in the world to come, even immortal glory;

60 For by the water ye keep the commandment; by the Spirit ye are justified, and by the blood ye are sanctified;

61 Therefore it is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; that which quickeneth all things, which maketh alive all things; that which knoweth all things, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment.

62 And now, behold, I say unto you: This is the plan of salvation unto all men, through the blood of mine Only Begotten, who shall come in the meridian of time.

Moses 6

[Ahab]

Sin is not to be understood as badness, but as separation.

I think of it as anything our Father doesn't approve of because it is contrary to his will. And we can also think something is a sin because we think it is contrary to his will, even though it may not be. So, generally, it's anything contrary to what we think is good. And that's bad.

And personally for our Father that's why he doesn't want to have anything to do with things that are contrary to his will, except to help people to not do those "bad" things. If people want to do bad things they'll have to do it somewhere else other than where he is.

[theplains]

I'm curious,have you read the actual article of faith?

I'm reading the entire book called "Articles of Faith". The current LDS Church does not

have it in print any more but instead replaced it with brief individual statements. None of

these statements however contain the phrase "inherited sin" from Adam like was taught

before.

Thanks,

Jim

[ksfisher]

I'm reading the entire book called "Articles of Faith". The current LDS Church does not

have it in print any more but instead replaced it with brief individual statements. None of

these statements however contain the phrase "inherited sin" from Adam like was taught

before.

Thanks,

Jim

The book by Elder Talmage was written about the "brief individual statements," not the other way around. The Articles of Faith were written by Joseph Smith to a newspaper publisher who was looking for some brief, concise statements that defined mormonism.

The doctrine of original or inherited sin has never been part of the LDS Church. I believe what is being referred to in the book is our propensity to sin, as BC Space explained above.

Edited February 8, 2013 by ksfisher

[volgadon]

The book by Elder Talmage was written about the "brief individual statements," not the other way around. The Articles of Faith were written by Joseph Smith to a newspaper publisher who was looking for some brief, concise statements that defined mormonism.

The doctrine of original or inherited sin has never been part of the LDS Church. I believe what is being referred to in the book is our propensity to sin, as BC Space explained above.

Thanks, you explained it best. This is exactly why I asked theplains in the first place. It can't be a very close read if one misses not only that the book opens with the 13 articles and attributes them to Joseph Smith, but that only a few pages down it is mentioned again, in greater detail.

[theplains]

The doctrine of original or inherited sin has never been part of the LDS Church. I believe what is being referred to in the book is our propensity to sin, as BC Space explained above.

The title page refers to the contents of the book as doctrines so I would have to disagree

with your premise. See the attached image.

Thanks,

Jim

[ksfisher]

The title page refers to the contents of the book as doctrines so I would have to disagree

with your premise. See the attached image.

Thanks,

Jim

The title page refers to the contents as a "Consideration of the Principal Doctrines." That is a ways from saying that the book itself is doctrine. As I said. The LDS church does not, and has never taught, the doctrine of original sin. The idea that a child can be guilty for the sin of a parent is an apostate idea. It violates the concept of agency and of common sense.