Imminent Death Of Evangelical Christianity?

[cdowis]

There’s an old adage: With age, comes wisdom. However, there is certainly a case to be made that there are times in which youth is actually a beneficial attribute — one that can bring with it a different form of wisdom. Case-in-point: Pastor John S. D ickerson, a 30-year-old evangelical leader who is sounding the alarm to his fellow believers in an effort to help the movement adapt to changing societal paradigms.

....

As a young leader in the evangelical movement, the pastor outlines his views on current societal trends and what they could mean for the future of Christianity in America. Of 2012, he wrote, “It hasn’t been a good year for evangelicals. I should know. I’m one of them.” To understand what he means in making this statement, here’s a recap of how D ickerson views the current scenario:

In 2012 we witnessed a collapse in American evangelicalism. The old religious right largely failed to affect the Republican primaries, much less the presidential election. Last month, Americans voted in favor of same-sex marriage in four states, while Florida voters rejected an amendment to restrict abortion.

....

Among the challenges facing evangelical churches, D ickerson notes five monumentally-important issues: declining church attendance, a donation crisis (older evangelicals who once gave large sums are aging), failure to adopt to social changes on issues like gay marriage, a dearth in the ability to use its power to achieve conversions and a youth that is decreasingly interested in faith and church.

..........

We evangelicals must accept that our beliefs are now in conflict with the mainstream culture. We cannot change ancient doctrines to adapt to the currents of the day. But we can, and must, adapt the way we hold our beliefs — with grace and humility instead of superior hostility. The core evangelical belief is that love and forgiveness are freely available to all who trust in Jesus Christ. This is the “good news” from which the evangelical name originates (“euangelion” is a Greek word meaning “glad tidings” or “good news”). Instead of offering hope, many evangelicals have claimed the role of moral gatekeeper, judge and jury. If we continue in that posture, we will continue to invite opposition and obscure the “good news” we are called to proclaim.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/is-the-death-of-evangelical-christianity-imminent-5-monumental-issues-facing-the-movement/

Edited December 18, 2012 by cdowis

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Brother Pratt said, "the Creeds of the Fathers seem to have been cast in the mould of other ages [...] not sufficiently elastic to expand with the expansion of mind, to grow with the growth, and advance with the progressive principles of the age." Let's not get smug; and let's not forget that we could always stand more intellectual growth and mind-expansion ourselves. "Thy mind, O man ..."

Edited December 18, 2012 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[cdowis]

I believe that the rise of the TV evangelist has had a profound effect, where church goers have become church watchers. You watch TV and occasionally call an 800 number and give your credit card number. I remember how the Tabernacle Choir was a regular part of religious programming, but now religious broadcasters are willing to pay large sums to appear on TV, and those unwilling or unable to pay are crowded out.

Some actually teach that Christians can sit back and "watch God do His work", without direct participation.

Edited December 18, 2012 by cdowis

[Vance]

Some actually teach that Christians can sit back and "watch God do His work", without direct participation.

I think that that attitude stems from the belief that they don't have to (or cannot) do anything to affect their salvation. "God does it all" is their mantra. They fully expect God to change them without any effort on their part.

Perhaps not all are like that, but far to many are.

[Saints Alive]

I'd say the death of mainline christianity is far more imminent than the death of evangelism. All the numbers I've seen show that evangelical denominations are holding steady. Religion is loosing its appeal with a large number of people. Why go to church and have someone tell me what I can and cant do when I can stay home on sunday or go to the mall, etc.

[Gervin]

I'd say the death of mainline christianity is far more imminent than the death of evangelism. All the numbers I've seen show that evangelical denominations are holding steady. Religion is loosing its appeal with a large number of people. Why go to church and have someone tell me what I can and cant do when I can stay home on sunday or go to the mall, etc.

People, to be sure, have problems with authority and obedience ("why respect my parents if they're going to tell me what I can and can't do ..." "why stay in school if my teachers are going to tell me what I can and can't do ..." etc.). The church, in my estimation, runs the risk of being irrelevant if it doesn't stand for something (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments) by teaching some "cans" and "can'ts."

Edited December 19, 2012 by Gervin

[Gervin]

I think that that attitude stems from the belief that they don't have to (or cannot) do anything to affect their salvation. "God does it all" is their mantra. They fully expect God to change them without any effort on their part.

Perhaps not all are like that, but far to many are.

In my many years of membership in many Christian churches I have never heard it even suggested that God expects nothing on our part. I probably wouldn't even consider a church that teaches such a thing as being a Christian church. Since, "far too many are" like this, could you share their names or denominations?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I believe that the rise of the TV evangelist has had a profound effect, where church goers have become church watchers. You watch TV and occasionally call an 800 number and give your credit card number. I remember how the Tabernacle Choir was a regular part of religious programming, but now religious broadcasters are willing to pay large sums to appear on TV, and those unwilling or unable to pay are crowded out.

Some actually teach that Christians can sit back and "watch God do His work", without direct participation.

Men have made such "prophecies" concerning us.

[volgadon]

Men have made such "prophecies" concerning us.

The Report of my death was an exaggeration.

-Mark Twain.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

The Report of my death was an exaggeration.

-Mark Twain.

Great example...

[Saints Alive]

People, to be sure, have problems with authority and obedience ("why respect my parents if they're going to tell me what I can and can't do ..." "why stay in school if my teachers are going to tell me what I can and can't do ..." etc.). The church, in my estimation, runs the risk of being irrelevant if it doesn't stand for something (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments) by teaching some "cans" and "can'ts."

you are required by law to go to school and listen to your parents (at least until 18) you are not required to belong to a church. So in the future there might not be a church to stand for something.

[Vance]

In my many years of membership in many Christian churches I have never heard it even suggested that God expects nothing on our part. I probably wouldn't even consider a church that teaches such a thing as being a Christian church. Since, "far too many are" like this, could you share their names or denominations?

Good for you. But my experience is different. Perhaps it is because to much of my experience is with anti-Mormons. They tend to present the false dichotomy of grace vs. obedience.

Here is an example,

http://markcares.wordpress.com/

[Gervin]

Good for you. But my experience is different. Perhaps it is because to much of my experience is with anti-Mormons. They tend to present the false dichotomy of grace vs. obedience.

Here is an example,

http://markcares.wordpress.com/

The writer of the blog you link says, near the bottom of the page, "Yes, it is the desire of every believer to try and keep God’s commandments. LDS members grossly misunderstand Christians when they think that we believe that we can run amuck in sin because we believe that we are saved freely. Nothing is further from the truth than that." Obviously, the author of this blog doesn't believe what you claim for him.

[california boy]

1. Far to often these days, Christian churches tell way too often who to hate rather than who to love.

2. Religion has become a political party. When religion identifies so closely with one political party, then if you disagree with that party, you also are disagreeing with Christian religion. Even on this board, I have heard comments like "How can you be a Democrat and also be a Mormon".

3. People quit going to church when the value of going diminishes to the point where it is of little value to them to attend.

Religion itself has lost it's way. You hear very little about love, charity, sacrifice, kindness connected with religion. Evangelists hating Mormons. If you support gay marriage, then you can't be a Christian. Church leaders protecting pedophiles. Blaming natural disasters and gun massacres on people that don't follow their message. Christians crying a war on religion when a courthouse is not allowed to host a religious symbol like a cross or a nativity. Why is that even important to religion. When the symbols of religion become more important than the actions and the heart then there is a problem with religion itself.

This Christmas there was a video of what looked like a spontaneous group of people singing Christmas songs. I am sure many have seen it because it has gone viral as they say. Why did it go viral? Because this is the spirit of Christianity that people long to have back in their lives. Who cares about where a nativity is allowed to be displayed when you can bring an entire mall to a standstill by singing songs of love and hope. Wouldn't it be better for religion to focus on showing that kind of spirit of Christmas more than the condemning and crying of what their "rights" are?

Christianity is pissing people off more than it is embracing them and showing love. Evangelist has turned an entire generation against them. and then look for blame in other places. When Mother Teressa died, Christianity lost its most important symbol of why it is good to be a Christian. We see to few Mother Teressa's and to many Westbough Baptists Churches.

Edited December 19, 2012 by california boy

[thesometimesaint]

The writer of the blog you link says, near the bottom of the page, "Yes, it is the desire of every believer to try and keep God’s commandments. LDS members grossly misunderstand Christians when they think that we believe that we can run amuck in sin because we believe that we are saved freely. Nothing is further from the truth than that." Obviously, the author of this blog doesn't believe what you claim for him.

See T.U.L.I.P.

[RobertAC]

Imminent death? I guess the rapture and ensuing apocalypse is close at hand.

Organized religion of all types is in trouble. More educated people and more scientific breakthroughs are causing people to question a belief in a supreme deity/deities.

Further, people seem to be content exploring religious affiliation without picking one over the other.

No surprises here, but no extinction of evangelism either.

[Mudcat]

The crisis with evangelicals is pretty simple. Kids between 18-26 are dropping out of the church. They aren't grasping other faiths so much. Rather they are embracing moral relativism, unbelief and so forth. Only a handful of those who drop out will return. If it continues the math points to a virtual wipeout of evangelicism in a few generations.. and the math doesn't account for the snowball effect that will likely expedite the situation.

As an evangelical, it's sad to see. I think the pastor that was quoted who said we should embrace moral change is total retard though. I don't see a place for it in Scripture, such pandering is catering to the World rather than seeking to witness to it. God's word doesn't change and doesn't return void.

[Gervin]

Perhaps the Evangelical Cliff is looming and I just don't see it. From my small perspective I do see signs of faith in young people. I just got back from a week in Haiti on a medical and construction mission with 26 others and half were college age and younger - including my 21 yo old daughter - her 5th year in a row. Her faith is a thing of beauty. My 22 yo son is involved in his church at college, Bible study, and leading music for a student service back in his (our) hometown in 2 weeks. His best friend was just accepted to Duke Divinity. I'm around so many young people who are engaged in service, Bible study, and worship. Perhaps some (other) snowballs can be rolled in the other direction. One hopes.

[Rob Bowman]

Mudcat,

You wrote:

The crisis with evangelicals is pretty simple. Kids between 18-26 are dropping out of the church. They aren't grasping other faiths so much. Rather they are embracing moral relativism, unbelief and so forth. Only a handful of those who drop out will return. If it continues the math points to a virtual wipeout of evangelicism in a few generations.. and the math doesn't account for the snowball effect that will likely expedite the situation.

I'm afraid this is the same kind of fallacious use of statistics that led Rodney Stark to predict there would be 265 million Mormons by 2080. Extrapolations from "trends" of the past few years or even few decades are hazardous because no pattern of growth or decay in belief or behavior remains constant in human populations. This is especially and obviously true when the statistical data used are selective, incomplete, or unrepresentative. Ed Stetzer is an evangelical statistician who is getting it right; see, for example, his article "Curing Christians' Stats Abuse." Bottom line: evangelicalism is in no danger of dying, though it will continue to change, as all human movements do.

[mathonihah]

I'm afraid this is the same kind of fallacious use of statistics that led Rodney Stark to predict there would be 265 million Mormons by 2080. Extrapolations from "trends" of the past few years or even few decades are hazardous because no pattern of growth or decay in belief or behavior remains constant in human populations. This is especially and obviously true when the statistical data used are selective, incomplete, or unrepresentative. Ed Stetzer is an evangelical statistician who is getting it right; see, for example, his article "Curing Christians' Stats Abuse." Bottom line: evangelicalism is in no danger of dying, though it will continue to change, as all human movements do.

The prophetic predictions are even darker for Evangelicalism (and brighter for Mormonism) than the statistical ones!

[Mudcat]

Mudcat,

You wrote:

I'm afraid this is the same kind of fallacious use of statistics that led Rodney Stark to predict there would be 265 million Mormons by 2080. Extrapolations from "trends" of the past few years or even few decades are hazardous because no pattern of growth or decay in belief or behavior remains constant in human populations. This is especially and obviously true when the statistical data used are selective, incomplete, or unrepresentative. Ed Stetzer is an evangelical statistician who is getting it right; see, for example, his article "Curing Christians' Stats Abuse." Bottom line: evangelicalism is in no danger of dying, though it will continue to change, as all human movements do.

I hope your right Rob, I don't have the same confidence in the issue. We are going the way of Europe. Maybe we are seeing the sluffing away of nominal believers, maybe the culture is giving opportunity for the tares to grow elsewhere.

[cdowis]

Rob,

Thanks for sharing this article.

I found this statement especially insightful,

"If three out of four Americans call themselves Christians, we are in big trouble. Three out of four Americans certainly do not live like Christians. Christianity becomes confused when everyone is a Christian but no one is following Christ. We evangelicals believe that most Americans do not have a relationship with Jesus Christ."

Also, I think there is a very common attitude among self-idenfied Christians", "I do not believe in organized religion."

Edited December 20, 2012 by cdowis

[Alan]

In the UK we are further down this road than the US. Now, secularism is the order of the day and religious believers are in the minority. The official church (Church of England) is declining at an alarming rate after decades of public infighting and failure to give a moral lead to the nation. They have a lot to answer for in my view.

Roman Catholic attendances are slightly up, mainly due to the influx of Poles following Poland's entry to the EU in 2004.

When I was a missionary 30+ years ago, we used to experience success amongst the working class. The middle class, on the whole, were too interested in materialism and and wealth. Now, the working class are richer and want for nothing. They have become the new middle class. We find now that many people joining the church are from the underclass - thse who live in what passes for poverty here.

An economic collapse, a major conflict, or perhaps a pandemic of some killer disease........ and people will come flooding back to the churches. We are watching the Book of Mormon story unfold before our very eyes.

[Rob Bowman]

Charles,

You wrote:

I found this statement especially insightful,

"If three out of four Americans call themselves Christians, we are in big trouble. Three out of four Americans certainly do not live like Christians. Christianity becomes confused when everyone is a Christian but no one is following Christ. We evangelicals believe that most Americans do not have a relationship with Jesus Christ."

First, this statistic of three out of four Americans calling themselves Christians includes Mormons as well as evangelicals. It also includes Catholics, liberal Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Jehovah's Witnesses, and a whole bunch of other groups. Only about one in four Americans self-identifies as evangelical or as a member of an evangelical Christian denomination or tradition.

Second, every religion as it grows and becomes prevalent or even dominant in a culture will develop a problem of having many nominal members. As I'm sure you know, this is the case for Mormons especially in Utah. It is a problem for Catholics in Italy, Anglicans in England, Lutherans in Minnesota, and Baptists in Georgia.

[canard78]

Mormons gloating over the possible demise of another group of people who embrace Jesus Christ as their Saviour?

Yuk.