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Doonesbury Implies Mitt Served Mission To Avoid Vietnam


Stargazer

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In yesterday's and today's Doonesbury cartoon we see an Elder Mitt Romney tracting.

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Two implications:

  • Mitt is serving as a missionary in order to get out of serving in Vietnam
  • And Mitt despises the poor

And note the foot in the door. I wonder what bon mots Trudeau will come up with in days to come. It looks like it could become a complete story arc of some kind.

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KevinG:

Romney demonstrated FOR the Vietnam war, but received numerous deferments including church service to NOT go himself.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2083002/Mitt-Romney-19-demonstrated-favour-Vietnam-War-draft.html

You had to actually apply for those deferments. They weren't automatically given. Many young men honorably served in the military before going on a Mission for the Church, Many serviced just as honorably military after going on a Mission for the Church. Romney chose to do neither.

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Romney demonstrated FOR the Vietnam war

In the article, this is the only information about what the demonstration was actually about:

A newspaper clipping headlined 'Governor's son pickets the pickets' states: 'Mitt Romney, son of Michigan Gov. George Romney, was one of the pickets who supported the Stanford University administration in opposition to sit-in demonstrators.

Carey Coulter was one of the demonstrators alongside Mr Romney that day. He told BuzzFeed.com: 'We were there to get an education and these people holding the administration hostage was antithetical to that

None of the signs they are holding mention Vietnam at all. In fact, the sign that Mitt is holding could be read to indicate that he agrees with the anti-Vietnam protesters, just not their methods.

To me, it doesn't look like the demonstration was FOR the Vietnam war.

.

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KevinG:

Romney demonstrated FOR the Vietnam war, but received numerous deferments including church service to NOT go himself.

http://www.dailymail...-War-draft.html

You had to actually apply for those deferments. They weren't automatically given. Many young men honorably served in the military before going on a Mission for the Church, Many serviced just as honorably military after going on a Mission for the Church. Romney chose to do neither.

I was referring to the portrayal of the Missionary discussions and mind reading Elder Romney's intentions when I said Treudau was making up his own reality.

But since you automatically went to that political place... Canadian's don't have much of a leg to stand on when it comes to complaining about American service in VietNam.

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And note the foot in the door. I wonder what bon mots Trudeau will come up with in days to come. It looks like it could become a complete story arc of some kind.

While avoiding Vietnam might be a bonus, the fact is that the LDS Church already had a culture and doctrine of missionary service for males of this age. This is the ultimate compliment for a Mormon or any other conservative; to be lampooned by such an enemy of righteousness.

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oremites:

Ridiculous. IF Romney wanted to he could have volunteered.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

You claimed Romney demonstrated FOR the war. I stated the demonstration was NOT in support of the war.

Do you have any evidence that Romney demonstrated FOR the war? In the article you posted the link to, you can clearly see that was NOT what the demonstration was about.

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BCSpace:

It is hypocritical to claim to want to go, and still do all within your power to not go. Many young LDS men served in the military before, and after, serving a Mission for the Church. Moreover the Church was rather late in the game to allow members to claim a Conscientious Objector status.

BTW, At 18 years of age all men were required to register for the Draft, and were subject to it. Only CO's, non physically/psychologically fit, homosexuals, Communists(or sympathizers), and certain professions were excluded from service. Average age for US personnel in Vietnam was 19. However many were younger.

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Oremites:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/06/1097899/-Romney-Supported-Vietnam-War-Demonstrated-Against-Demonstrators-and-then-Avoided-Draft

Mitt Romney was a strong supporter of the Vietnam War in the mid-1960s, going so far as to counter demonstrate at an anti-war demonstration. Go here for a picture of young Mitt holding a picket sign against the demonstrators at an anti-Vietnam war demonstration. Mitt Romney loved Vietnam draft he purposefully avoided He's so clean cut.

A picture taken on May 20, 1966, clearly shows a 19-year old Romney, whose father was at the time Michigan’s governor, standing with pro-war University president Wallace Sterling. To the young Romney, anti-war activists hoping to end the draft — and the senseless deaths of nearly 60,000 young American men — should not sit-in, they should sit down and shut up in preparation for potential deployment
.

But as BuzzFeed reported Wednesday, Romney had no chance of being sent overseas because he was already a registered missionary, and apparently religious proselytization was more important than an able-body.

The photo at the time in the papers was titled "Governor's Son Pickets the Pickets."

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... should not sit-in, they should sit down and shut up in preparation for potential deployment ...

Again, this is all a bunch of editorializing. The claim here is that Mitt Romney thought that anti-war activists should "shut up", but the sign Mitt is holding actually says "speak out". How much clearer can it be?

The facts of the demonstration in these articles (minus all the mind-reading) show that it was not intended to be pro-war but to be against the methods of the anti-war protesters.

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I certainly don't get that Mitt Romney was in favor from the Vietnam War from the photo. Oremites is correct. If anything, the photo suggests that Mitt did not like protests. Not surprising in that he probably does not like civil protests now. However, I am not sure that one can make a solid case of a draft dodger. There were lots of deferments for men in college in those days. He would, and did, qualify.

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If he hadn't been deferred for mission he would have been deferred for college. It is about as solid a criticism of Romney as the Birth Certificate is for Obama. Partisan nonsense.

I'm still more offended (and arguably on topic for the MDD boards) by the mis-characterization of the Missionaries message. South Park was funnier and less insulting.

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RobertAC:

I certainly don't get that Mitt Romney was in favor from the Vietnam War from the photo. Oremites is correct. If anything, the photo suggests that Mitt did not like protests. Not surprising in that he probably does not like civil protests now. However, I am not sure that one can make a solid case of a draft dodger. There were lots of deferments for men in college in those days. He would, and did, qualify.

Mitt Romney was for the Vietnam war. He said: "I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there, and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam.”. He applied for and received 4 deferments. Two of which were after his mission for the Church. He wasn't against civil protest.He joined one, making his own placard.

FACT Romney was for the Vietnam war. FACT Romney participated in at least one Pro-War Civil Demonstration. FACT Romney made his own Pro-War placard. FACT You had to be by law registered for the Draft. FACT Deferments had to be applied for. FACT Romney applied for and received 4 deferments. FACT He said he wanted to serve. FACT There was nothing stopping him from serving in the military before college. FACT Many men including LDS men did just that. FACT Nothing was stopping him from joining the US Military before, or after, his Missionary work for the Church. Again many LDS men did just that.

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KevinG:

I agree that an attack on his Church Mission is demagogic. But the issue isn't his Missionary experience but that of his use of it as a deferment if he felt that strongly about serving in the US Military himself. He could have easily served after his Mission.

I've watched South Park exactly once and found it too vulgar to watch again.

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RobertAC:

Mitt Romney was for the Vietnam war. He said: "I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there, and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam.”. He applied for and received 4 deferments. Two of which were after his mission for the Church. He wasn't against civil protest.He joined one, making his own placard.

FACT Romney was for the Vietnam war. FACT Romney participated in at least one Pro-War Civil Demonstration. FACT Romney made his own Pro-War placard. FACT You had to be by law registered for the Draft. FACT Deferments had to be applied for. FACT Romney applied for and received 4 deferments. FACT He said he wanted to serve. FACT There was nothing stopping him from serving in the military before college. FACT Many men including LDS men did just that. FACT Nothing was stopping him from joining the US Military before, or after, his Missionary work for the Church. Again many LDS men did just that.

You missed the most important major fact: The LDS Church had a formal agreement with the Federal Gov't which applied to the Vietnam War only -- the number of missionaries being called was frozen, and the Selective Service agreed that the first call was applicable. So if a mission call came first, that stopped any draft process, and if the Selective Service lottery chose you first, no deferment was possible for a mission. Period.

Deferments were completely legal, and served useful purposes: Completion of education was good, since the armed forces needed (1) highly trained specialists, and (2) officers with four-year degrees. I had a brother-in-law who got a deferment to go to medical school. After med school, he served as a medical officer in the USN. I had other close relatives who served during the VN War, one who was drafted because he was a party animal and got poor grades in college (BYU), and two who volunteered for the USMC and fought in Nam.

During the early years of the VN War, the War was popular across the board among the American people, and was well fought by regular volunteer units (see the true story, "We Were Soldiers"). However, as the War dragged on without success and too many unwilling draftees, that popularity nose-dived. If Mitt Romney favored the War early on, that would be in keeping with the vast majority of college-age youth at that time. No surprises there.

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Robert F. Smith:

Irrelevant. He chose to apply for and accept 4 deferments from the Draft while at the same time proclaiming his support for the Vietnam war. At best that was hypocritical or at least disingenuous.

As a wise man once said: Show me what you do and I'll know what you believe.

BTW: I'm not against ALL wars, just stupid ones and Vietnam was one of the stupidest ones.

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Robert F. Smith:

Irrelevant. He chose to apply for and accept 4 deferments from the Draft while at the same time proclaiming his support for the Vietnam war. At best that was hypocritical or at least disingenuous.

As a wise man once said: Show me what you do and I'll know what you believe.

BTW: I'm not against ALL wars, just stupid ones and Vietnam was one of the stupidest ones.

So, I take it that you therefore don't accept deferments for anyone in favor of the VN War, and find all such people to be hypocritical, including Clinton & Bush. And what of those who served there honorably and have since been labeled as wimps? Do we really judge people by what they do?

Also, which U.S. wars (declared by Congress or not) have been "stupid"? Begin your list with WW II.

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Robert F. Smith:

The saying; Put you body where your mouth is, comes to mind.

TTBMK Clinton wasn't for the Vietnam war.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/etc/draftletter.html

Bush joined an Air National Guard unit which at the time had little chance of serving in Vietnam. He appears to have been a competent pilot. He missed mandatory formations while working on his fathers' political campaign in Texas and Alabama.

I have nothing but respect for those that honorably served in whatever military capacity during any war the US has fought in. Those that disparaged returning veterans disgust me. The leaders whom sent those young men and women into harms way is another question.

You tell me.

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Stargazer, you seem to looking for offense in regard to avoiding Vietnam, other than the year nothing to suggest he went on a mission to avoid vietnam- there is age given, no draft card sticking out behind his name tag, etc. So you seem over the top on that one.

As to Romney hating the poor, true or not, it is obvious Doonsebury thinks Romney hates the poor and that Doonesbury is trying to reinforce the idea that Romney hates the poor.

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FACT Romney participated in at least one Pro-War Civil Demonstration. FACT Romney made his own Pro-War placard.

Are you still talking about that demonstration discussed earlier in the thread?

That was NOT a pro-war demonstration. The placard was NOT pro-war. It said, "SPEAK OUT DON'T SIT IN". Please explain how that is pro-war.

Of course, if you're referring to a different demonstration and a different placard, please let us know what that placard said.

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Isn't Doonesbury a cartoon? :)

As for Romney's deferments, etc. I don't the think the issue is so much that he applied for and received deferments. Good for him. But to assert 45 years later that he was frustrated that he did not get to serve is self-serving political B.S. He apparently has a condo atop B.S. Mountain. (Credit to Jon Stewart.) :)

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FACT Romney was for the Vietnam war. FACT Romney participated in at least one Pro-War Civil Demonstration. FACT Romney made his own Pro-War placard. FACT You had to be by law registered for the Draft. FACT Deferments had to be applied for. FACT Romney applied for and received 4 deferments. FACT He said he wanted to serve. FACT There was nothing stopping him from serving in the military before college. FACT Many men including LDS men did just that. FACT Nothing was stopping him from joining the US Military before, or after, his Missionary work for the Church. Again many LDS men did just that.

FACT political and off topic IMO.
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