Inheritors Of The Telestial Kingdom

[Stargazer]

Without having any scriptures with me I would tell another person that the telestial kingdom is for those who dies unrepentant and do anot accept the Savior in this life nor the next and thus lose their claim on the Atonement. They will inherit the Celestial Kingdom after they have suffered for their unrepented of sins themselves, after having gone through an agony to what Christ suffered in the Garden of Gethsemanee.

I do not agree that we are living in the telestial Kindom here on earth. The Telestial Kingdom is a kingdom of glory. Life on earth is not.

Glenn

Well, I have to differ with you on that bolded part.

Oh, they will have to go through what Christ suffered, but in their case it is not exalting, it is mere cleansing -- having suffered they need not suffer any more. And they are stuck with the Telestial Kingdom forever.

[bdouglas]

Without plural mortal expiations (atonements) there are no consequences.

What is "plural mortal expiations"? Multiple moral probations? You guys sound like you are preaching to the choir here, to others already "in the know". Where exactly is this "plural mortal expiations" mentioned in the scriptures? What about Hebrews 9? I know JJ Dewey has written 50 pages or so on Heb. 9, but I didn't take the time to read it.

[bdouglas]

Previous post should

Without plural mortal expiations (atonements) there are no consequences.

Sorry. Previous post should read:

What is "plural mortal expiations"? Multiple motal probations? You guys sound like you are preaching to the choir here, to others already "in the know". Where exactly is this "plural mortal expiations" mentioned in the scriptures? What about Hebrews 9? I know JJ Dewey has written 50 pages or so on Heb. 9, but I didn't take the time to read it.

[manofthecloth]

What is "plural mortal expiations"? Multiple moral probations? You guys sound like you are preaching to the choir here, to others already "in the know". Where exactly is this "plural mortal expiations" mentioned in the scriptures? What about Hebrews 9? I know JJ Dewey has written 50 pages or so on Heb. 9, but I didn't take the time to read it.

So tell us who are the inheritors of the Telestial Kingdom? Bring us back to the original thread.

[CV75]

Who says anything about the unrepentant? The unrepentant suffer with the devil and his angels after resurrection and judgment.

The unrepentant would be those who cannot tolerate a higher glory than they would and could otherwise, had they repented. For example, those who did not repent of their lack of valiance in the testimony of Jesus (D&C 76:79), even if they were very highly functioning members of the terrestrial kingdom. I haven't seen support for how these advance onward to exaltation.

The really, really unrepentant are addresed in D&C 76:31-38. These have no glory at all, and so are not redeemed (verse 38).

Those who are redeemed enjoy the degree glory (however modest) they are willing to receive; however, their agency has been so compromised (by suffering and paying for their own sins) that they cannot advance from one kingdom into the next after the resurrcetion. This is because they have denied themselves (their agency) and so cannot see as they are seen or know as they are known. Having atoned for all, our God sees and knows us as exalted beings, but He cannot force that image upon people who insist on seeing through a glass darkly.

I'm still missing the argument that while those in a kingdom of no glory must remain there forever, less unrepentant resurrected people can advance from telestial glory to exaltation, and that resurrected people maintain the capacity to repent after pridefully misuing their agency to suffer for their own sins, knowingly rejecting the Lord's atonement, even in light of His mercy that had been extended in His due time.

[Rob Osborn]

The unrepentant would be those who cannot tolerate a higher glory than they would and could otherwise, had they repented. For example, those who did not repent of their lack of valiance in the testimony of Jesus (D&C 76:79), even if they were very highly functioning members of the terrestrial kingdom. I haven't seen support for how these advance onward to exaltation.

The really, really unrepentant are addresed in D&C 76:31-38. These have no glory at all, and so are not redeemed (verse 38).

Those who are redeemed enjoy the degree glory (however modest) they are willing to receive; however, their agency has been so compromised (by suffering and paying for their own sins) that they cannot advance from one kingdom into the next after the resurrcetion. This is because they have denied themselves (their agency) and so cannot see as they are seen or know as they are known. Having atoned for all, our God sees and knows us as exalted beings, but He cannot force that image upon people who insist on seeing through a glass darkly.

I'm still missing the argument that while those in a kingdom of no glory must remain there forever, less unrepentant resurrected people can advance from telestial glory to exaltation, and that resurrected people maintain the capacity to repent after pridefully misuing their agency to suffer for their own sins, knowingly rejecting the Lord's atonement, even in light of His mercy that had been extended in His due time.

How are spirits in prison redeemed from that hell? They must repent, be baptized and obey the gospel. It's all about who one chooses. The millennium is the time for perfection- all those who accept Christ. Christ will save all except the sons of perdition. All tgose will be totally cleansed because of their repentance from all their sins.

[CV75]

Waxing and waning like the moon for me suggests a schedule of growth and decline and growth again.

(Are you saying that the Terrestrial Kingdom fills with resurrected people and empties out again as they progress?) ... I can see that we agree on many other points, so I’ll just focus on the exceptions to keep the post as short as possible.

In this life, “waxes and wanes” aptly describes “one-step-forward-two-back” (the “schedule of growth” as you put it) that we experience as we overcome sin and personal weakness. If we want to characterize a telestial life as what we lead “outside the covenant” and a terrestrial life as what we have once we accept the Gospel and join the Church, then this kind of waxing and waning / ebb and flow of progress aptly describes what we experience as Church members. It also aptly describes the gradations of spirituality or intelligence a bishop might observe in his ward “micro” terrestrial kingdom. But in the resurrection, I see a set of different / additional dynamics which for the reasons I laid out in the post above (#130) I believe do not permit a schedule of growth between kingdoms.

I think the Millennium does serve a purpose of perfecting the saints that are in pre- and post- resurrection states, but for the same reasons previously stated, not of perfecting resurrected souls from one of the three kingdoms of glory to the next. I think this is opposition to the idea that “God cannot cease to be God,” indicating that a resurrected being of a higher glory cannot go backward into a lesser glory—a lesser kingdom cannot progress. Granted, the Millennium is a terrestrial world, but I can see that some inhabitants will choose a telestial lifestyle and some may not develop celestial lifestyles. As also indicated in earlier posts (telestial law is not a law of the devil), we don’t need a devil to tempt us to reject grace, as we have the wherewithal to squander our agency quite independently of temptation.

I agree that perfection is a very long process and feel that grace plays a role in enabling our continued path to perfection both prior to and after the resurrection. My point is that the pride exhibited by a resurrected person in suffering for his own sins (rather than lay them at the Lord’s feet) is a forfeiture of the very agency they need to progress. This is not the kind of suffering that teaches, an opportunity we have in mortality and the spirit world. This is the kind of “final payment” suffering that one decides to make himself rather than accept the Lord’s terms for atonement. Of course this is all by degrees.

I think we are born but one time in the mortal flesh, in opposition to being reborn many times in the spirit as we grow in spiritual things throughout our mortal probation. This is why I don’t see a repetition of the mortal experience until we get it right--it’s really about fulfilling our true nature to develop a celestial spirit in that body. The spiritual rebirth is the application of grace, over and over, until the perfect day. In the first resurrection or the resurrection of the just, some of us will continue to receive grace for grace because we acknowledge the need for it. Some may not receive it because they already possess a fullness of grace or because they don’t want more than they already have (assuming some in the first resurrection include those of a terrestrial attitude). This makes continued spiritual rebirth in a resurrected body problematic, which is the rationale for all the work for the dead.

God cannot block our progression, and neither can He force it. This is why it is said He gave us our agency—only we ourselves can continue or stop our progress. The most fundamental law (that of existence – D& 93:29-31), that we and He co-eternally obey, facilitates agency and its expansion, so when we do not obey this law we compromise agency and existence (we do not progress). This still affords co-eternal beings a form of existence even after denying the Holy Ghost, which is why/how the devil continues to exist.

All sin will be forgiven (except blasphemy against the Holy Ghost), whether through Christ’s atonement and our allegiance to Him, or through our own punishment out of a lack of full allegiance and valiance to Him. To me, this highlights the big difference between justification (forgiveness) and sanctification (exaltation), again exhibited by degrees.

After all this, I think the issue that children of God may choose to miss out on grace and exaltation might be the matter to discuss instead of the particulars of post-resurrection progression.

[CV75]

How are spirits in prison redeemed from that hell? They must repent, be baptized and obey the gospel. It's all about who one chooses. The millennium is the time for perfection- all those who accept Christ. Christ will save all except the sons of perdition. All those will be totally cleansed because of their repentance from all their sins.

But I'm not getting how all resurrected people (telestial, terrestrial, or celestial) that are not sons of perdition pay for their own sins and then at the same time rely upon Christ sufficiently for exaltation--and fulfill these two requirements during the Millennium. Paying for one's own sins as a resurrected person may result in forgiveness (justification) but not sanctification. The gift and baptism of the Holy Ghost can only do so much with someone that does not rely fully on Christ so as to require him to pay the penalty (however little is remaining) for his own sins. So the continued progress of the resurrected person is limited to the glory of the kingdom he is resurrected with, which is a function of his own spirit, and advancement between kingdoms is not possible.

Edited October 15, 2012 by CV75

[Rob Osborn]

But I'm not getting how all resurrected people (telestial, terrestrial, or celestial) that are not sons of perdition pay for their own sins and then at the same time rely upon Christ sufficiently for exaltation--and fulfill these two requirements during the Millennium. Paying for one's own sins as a resurrected person may result in forgiveness (justification) but not sanctification. The gift and baptism of the Holy Ghost can only do so much with someone that does not rely fully on Christ so as to require him to pay the penalty (however little is remaining) for his own sins. So the continued progress of the resurrected person is limited to the glory of the kingdom he is resurrected with, which is a function of his own spirit, and advancement between kingdoms is not possible.

I do believe in different degrees of glory within the celestial. Requirements to enter the celestial just requires one to be clean from their sins. After that, there is upwards degrees of diligence, or how closer to godliness he or she is. It is possible for two separate people to be withoyt sin yet be different as far as how close they are to godliness. Christ says that he cleanses all he saves from sin. So, this has to mean they have shown obedience to at least the preparatory gospel.

[CV75]

I do believe in different degrees of glory within the celestial. Requirements to enter the celestial just requires one to be clean from their sins. After that, there is upwards degrees of diligence, or how closer to godliness he or she is. It is possible for two separate people to be withoyt sin yet be different as far as how close they are to godliness. Christ says that he cleanses all he saves from sin. So, this has to mean they have shown obedience to at least the preparatory gospel.

I agree with this as well. Maybe I misunderstood your propositions. I was interpreting your remarks to mean that everyone born into mortality will either end up a son of perdition or exalted, and that exaltation is the inevitability for anyone being resurrected into a degree of glory, no matter how faint (telestial), and then being able to progress in the Millennial environment until they are exalted, and this is how the Savior finishes His work.

[CV75]

Christ says that he cleanses all he saves from sin. So, this has to mean they have shown obedience to at least the preparatory gospel.

Maybe this is what I’m not getting. He cleanses all He saves from sin to the degree they are willing, so yes, to the degree to which they obey (and not suffer for their own sins) is the degree to which they are cleansed.

[manofthecloth]

(Are you saying that the Terrestrial Kingdom fills with resurrected people and empties out again as they progress?) ... I can see that we agree on many other points, so I’ll just focus on the exceptions to keep the post as short as possible.

I like the way you discuss things because I can learn from a calm and collected thinker.

In this life, “waxes and wanes” aptly describes “one-step-forward-two-back” (the “schedule of growth” as you put it) that we experience as we overcome sin and personal weakness. If we want to characterize a telestial life as what we lead “outside the covenant” and a terrestrial life as what we have once we accept the Gospel and join the Church, then this kind of waxing and waning / ebb and flow of progress aptly describes what we experience as Church members. It also aptly describes the gradations of spirituality or intelligence a bishop might observe in his ward “micro” terrestrial kingdom. But in the resurrection, I see a set of different / additional dynamics which for the reasons I laid out in the post above (#130) I believe do not permit a schedule of growth between kingdoms.

It's hard to disagree sharply with the way you have presented your thoughts, but you haven't dissuaded me from mine either.

I think the Millennium does serve a purpose of perfecting the saints that are in pre- and post- resurrection states, but for the same reasons previously stated, not of perfecting resurrected souls from one of the three kingdoms of glory to the next. I think this is opposition to the idea that “God cannot cease to be God,” indicating that a resurrected being of a higher glory cannot go backward into a lesser glory—a lesser kingdom cannot progress. Granted, the Millennium is a terrestrial world, but I can see that some inhabitants will choose a telestial lifestyle and some may not develop celestial lifestyles. As also indicated in earlier posts (telestial law is not a law of the devil), we don’t need a devil to tempt us to reject grace, as we have the wherewithal to squander our agency quite independently of temptation.

Pre and post resurrection states [of man] implies there can only be one resurrection. Since clarity should be our first goal, I should state again I exploring the possibility of reaching beyond our borders of understanding regarding progression. Starting with the premise that this is "the" Telestial Kingdom of which we the Latter-day Saints preach for the so-called post-resurrection phase of our existence. If this is "the" Telestial Kingdom then post-resurrection has no meaning like we now teach it. If I am right, you and I are in a post-resurrection state now.

Assessing your statement that one cannot go backwards is probably not true because Satan seems to have gone backwards. He is extremely dangerous and loathsome because he is an apostate from Father's family and probably denied the Holy Ghost. Satan obsesses over us in a macro sense like apostates on earth do in the micro. To have attained a god status as he did I must conclude he was resurrected, and I also am of the opinion that Christ himself was already a God and resurrected to be where he was. If we can go backwards and forwards in the microcosm of our ward settings, then why not in the macro of our Adam's family setting.

I agree that perfection is a very long process and feel that grace plays a role in enabling our continued path to perfection both prior to and after the resurrection. My point is that the pride exhibited by a resurrected person in suffering for his own sins (rather than lay them at the Lord’s feet) is a forfeiture of the very agency they need to progress. This is not the kind of suffering that teaches, an opportunity we have in mortality and the spirit world. This is the kind of “final payment” suffering that one decides to make himself rather than accept the Lord’s terms for atonement. Of course this is all by degrees.

I am also uncomfortable with the idea of being able to pay for my own sins because I don't believe Father wants me to do it that way. Accepting His Son's atonement puts me in a mode of obedience whereas doing any kind of final atonement for myself smacks of something Satan would be trying to do. That's probably why any kind of disobedience is so dangerous because it gets our spirits in the habit of going it alone.

I think we are born but one time in the mortal flesh, in opposition to being reborn many times in the spirit as we grow in spiritual things throughout our mortal probation. This is why I don’t see a repetition of the mortal experience until we get it right--it’s really about fulfilling our true nature to develop a celestial spirit in that body. The spiritual rebirth is the application of grace, over and over, until the perfect day. In the first resurrection or the resurrection of the just, some of us will continue to receive grace for grace because we acknowledge the need for it. Some may not receive it because they already possess a fullness of grace or because they don’t want more than they already have (assuming some in the first resurrection include those of a terrestrial attitude). This makes continued spiritual rebirth in a resurrected body problematic, which is the rationale for all the work for the dead.

The perfection process for which you have faith and my variation with multiple probations sounds the same to me, and it probably doesn't matter much in this world. Telestial means lowest kingdom of glory, which is almost the same as lowest position of knowledge. We both have faith that the celestial kingdom is still very much in play for us; that the Atonement has efficacy in our lives; that obedience is absolutely necessary. Based on our point of view, we have different assumptions about what comes next.

To your other thoughtful question, "This makes continued spiritual rebirth in a resurrected body problematic, which is the rationale for all the work for the dead, " very important to me also. Whereas some of my thinking clears up ideas like "pre-existence," but then clouds concepts like "ancestors." What are we? Our own ancestors? Preposterous! Unthinkable? I don't know why necessarily. My nephew is both my 3rd cousin once removed and my nephew. All of us are cousins through Father Adam and Mother Eve anyway so why does an earthly paternity matter? An adopted son is no less a son even if is my brother's son. "For we without them cannot be made perfect; neither can they without us be made perfect. Neither can they nor we be made perfect without those who have died in the gospel also; for it is necessary in the ushering in of the dispensation of the fulness of times, which dispensation is now beginning to usher in, that a whole and complete and perfect union, and welding together of dispensations, and keys, and powers, and glories should take place, and be revealed from the days of Adam even to the present time. And not only this, but those things which never have been revealed from the foundation of the world, but have been kept hid from the wise and prudent, shall be revealed unto babes and sucklings in this, the dispensation of the fulness of times." When did this dispensation start exactly? Does anyone know. I wonder if it was about 1500 AD because that date is about all the further we can go back with the vast majority of our ancestors. If we ourselves progressed from dispensation to dispensation with new mortal bodies why would it matter whether or not I have been here before or not. I kind of like the idea of coming down through a patriarchal or matriarchal line of my choosing in some manner.

God cannot block our progression, and neither can He force it. This is why it is said He gave us our agency—only we ourselves can continue or stop our progress. The most fundamental law (that of existence – D& 93:29-31), that we and He co-eternally obey, facilitates agency and its expansion, so when we do not obey this law we compromise agency and existence (we do not progress). This still affords co-eternal beings a form of existence even after denying the Holy Ghost, which is why/how the devil continues to exist.

All sin will be forgiven (except blasphemy against the Holy Ghost), whether through Christ’s atonement and our allegiance to Him, or through our own punishment out of a lack of full allegiance and valiance to Him. To me, this highlights the big difference between justification (forgiveness) and sanctification (exaltation), again exhibited by degrees.

After all this, I think the issue that children of God may choose to miss out on grace and exaltation might be the matter to discuss instead of the particulars of post-resurrection progression.

Your statement "children of God may choose to miss out on grace and exaltation might be the matter to discuss instead of the particulars of post-resurrection progression," is an important statement. However, in the discussions on this board, we the posters learn so much more than if we simply accept the pablum of "Gospel Essentials" and call it enough. To debate is to exercise our minds in the liberty and agency God gave us. Paul said, " For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." -- Hebrews 5:12-14. In the church we get soooo complacent in our yearning for knowledge that we lapse into criticizing those who are seeking to understand things in further detail. We do not learn after the manner of Jews and our minds atrophy into cravenness and fear of knowledge.

[CV75]

I'm trying to issue a call to logic here. When the Lord says that the unrepentant must suffer "even as I", then how can they so suffer if they are not in a physical body, like Christ was at that time? Whatever suffering goes on in the Spirit Prison cannot possibly be the suffering "even as I". That must necessarily wait for the resurrection.

But I repeat myself.

Thank you--I agree.

[Rob Osborn]

Maybe this is what I’m not getting. He cleanses all He saves from sin to the degree they are willing, so yes, to the degree to which they obey (and not suffer for their own sins) is the degree to which they are cleansed.

He literally cleanses them from "all" their sins. Differing degrees of diligence is about acquiring knowledge and wisdom. If we take "glory" to mean "light and truth" then we can thus see the logic that whereas all are cleansed from all their sins, some have acquired more light and truth through their diligence than another and thus a higher degree of glory in their perfect state. But even these differing degrees are not limited but rather a point on a line where any further point is achievable through more work and diligence.

[CV75]

We do not learn after the manner of Jews and our minds atrophy into cravenness and fear of knowledge.

My purpose for delving into the subject of agency as it relates to grace and exaltation is to get to the root of the matter of eternal progress as discussed the posts above (and below in this post). How is agency reflected in understanding what resurrection means, and in the view of a cycle of resurrection leading to exaltation? I think the general answer lies in the idea of “probation.”

I already see this “telestial world” life having multiple mini-probations that constitute the whole test, since we advance from grace to grace, so it isn’t a stretch to imagine a series of resurrected “telestial world” lives accomplishing the same thing. I just don’t have a scriptural basis for believing it, so I’m having trouble understanding the following instances you raised:

1. We are resurrected beings from a former mortality (of any given glory) living in the Telestial Kingdom, yet our spirits and element are not “inseparably connected”—we die—and we cannot now remember the former mortal probation or the final judgment pertaining to it (we have no bright recollection of all our guilt), which landed us here in the Telestial Kingdom.

2. Jesus and Satan were resurrected beings (gods) before coming to Earth, whose spirit and element were then rendered “separably” connected in order for Jesus to come to Earth as a mortal and for Satan to be cast down as a disembodied spirit. What were the rest of us before coming here: spirits (which cannot die or be resurrected with element), mortals, or resurrected non-gods?

3. A resurrected person is not necessarily inseparably connected element and spirit, but such is reserved only for an exalted person, so that Jesus and Satan were not exalted people, only gods before arriving upon the Earth (as a resurrected telestial body in Jesus’ case and as a resurrected spirit in Satan’s case).

4. Both Jesus and Satan went “backwards” from a resurrected godhood into mortality / the Telestial Kingdom, yet the Telestial Kingdom seems to be a “promotion” from the outer darkness Satan actually would be expected to be living in.

5. The nature of probation in the Telestial Kingdom allows for adding to or removing from pre-Earth attainments or graces (forward and backward progress) which is the proposed waxing and waning of the (proposed) Terrestrial Kingdom, unless you propose that the waxing and waning occurs in the Telestial Kingdom as well, or each next-advanced telestial kingdom is terrestrial in comparison with its earlier stages.

6. The multiple restaging of the Telestial Kingdom(s) allowing each of us to take on the role of Adam and Eve and their descendants in various permutations for the “bounds of our habitation” for as long as it takes for us to get the full experience of a full probation with each “restaging” representing a resurrection …and if the ultimate Telestial stage leads to the Terrestrial Kingdom, and then eventually to the Celestial and then Exaltation, each stage involves an advancement or retreating of sorts and as the case may be. The process is truly endless in comparison with the “one-shot deal” version, which is OK except for the unique conceptualization of “resurrection” as a reversible immortality. This would render all intermediate stages to Exaltation a functional mortality with a veil of forgetfulness and a requirement to live by faith—which is the plan of salvation described in the manuals, just recycled innumerable times, in which case the mechanics might not really matter. Except for what I think is the underlying issue, which is, except for sons of perdition that are not recycled (excepting Satan, a god that became a son of perdition allowed to operate in the Telestial Kingdom), grace trumps agency.

[CV75]

all are cleansed from all their sins

I don’t think this is consistent with Alma 5:21 and D& 76:52—do you have another basis for this idea?

[Rob Osborn]

I don’t think this is consistent with Alma 5:21 and D& 76:52—do you have another basis for this idea?

All of the saved are saved from all their sins.-

41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;

42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him;

43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him. D&C 76:41-43

40 And he shall come into the world to redeem his people; and he shall take upon him the transgressions of those who believe on his name; and these are they that shall have eternal life, and salvation cometh to none else. Alma 11:40

Christ takes the sin away from all those who repent and believe in him- all sin. All who accept Christ are washed in his blood and cleansed 100%

[treeface]

do you have another basis for this idea?

What is God's job description, as it relates to us?

"For behold, this is my work and my glory - to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man."

Will he succeed or fail?

"The works, and the designs, and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated, neither can they come to naught."

[harfad]

It seems to me that the mistake you are making is in thinking that there is only one kind of salvation--the celestial. Anything else is not real salvation. According to D&C 76:88, however, all who inherit any of the kingdoms of glory are considered "saved". The different degrees of glory are all part of the saved condition. It is consistent with the idea God rewarding everyone according to their "works". The only people who are not saved are the SOPs, because they do not repent. All the rest who are "redeemed" from hell are "saved," regardless of which glory they inherit.

[DavidB]

It is astounding that even when read in black and white, from the Church, people will deny or add to the Gospel.

Those who suffer for their own sins and inherit the lowest kingdom, they have not accepted Christ. There is only one unpardonable sin, not accepting Christ is not that one unpardonable sin.

[CV75]

All of the saved are saved from all their sins.-

41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;

42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him;

43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him. D&C 76:41-43

40 And he shall come into the world to redeem his people; and he shall take upon him the transgressions of those who believe on his name; and these are they that shall have eternal life, and salvation cometh to none else. Alma 11:40

Christ takes the sin away from all those who repent and believe in him- all sin. All who accept Christ are washed in his blood and cleansed 100%

I am questioning the whole premise that heirs of the Telestial Kingdom are eligible to progress onward to their exaltation (only sons of perdition are damned). I haven’t seen a good justification for this idea. Verse 42 says "all might be saved."

[CV75]

What is God's job description, as it relates to us?

"For behold, this is my work and my glory - to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man."

Will he succeed or fail?

"The works, and the designs, and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated, neither can they come to naught."

God has succeeded in bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. It is a "done deal" on His part, or as far as He is concernd, and so His purposes are not frustrated. What we take from that, or actually experience first hand, is a function of our agency and not His, so we may succeed or fail in entering into the complete package of "immoratlity and eternal life" that have been brought to pass by virtue of the Atonement. By misusing our agency, we can enter immortlaity and all or a degree (or no degree) of ultimate glory.

[CV75]

It seems to me that the mistake you are making is in thinking that there is only one kind of salvation--the celestial. Anything else is not real salvation. According to D&C 76:88, however, all who inherit any of the kingdoms of glory are considered "saved". The different degrees of glory are all part of the saved condition. It is consistent with the idea God rewarding everyone according to their "works". The only people who are not saved are the SOPs, because they do not repent. All the rest who are "redeemed" from hell are "saved," regardless of which glory they inherit.

Are you suggesting that heirs of the Telestial Kingdom are eligible to progress onward to their exaltation?

[CV75]

It is astounding that even when read in black and white, from the Church, people will deny or add to the Gospel.

Those who suffer for their own sins and inherit the lowest kingdom, they have not accepted Christ. There is only one unpardonable sin, not accepting Christ is not that one unpardonable sin.

Are you suggesting that heirs of the Telestial Kingdom are eligible to progress onward to their exaltation?

[Rob Osborn]

I am questioning the whole premise that heirs of the Telestial Kingdom are eligible to progress onward to their exaltation (only sons of perdition are damned). I haven’t seen a good justification for this idea. Verse 42 says "all might be saved."

Read the verses again. It states that all of the savedare cleansed from sin. In the end only the sons of perdition are damned. All others receive eternal life.