Reid Claims "Romney Has Soiled Our Religion"

[Anijen]

Semi-political thread but I want the focus on one member claiming another has soiled our religion. As far as I know Reid has never been a Bishop or a Stake President, it would seem to me he is using a swipe at a good member for political reasons.

I find that this type of accusation is out of bounds and IMO hurts the church more than would help his party. I also think with Romney's past church positions as a Bishop and as a Stake President he has probably represented the church far better than Reid himself has.

Your thoughts?

see article here

[KevinG]

We discussed this over here... http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/heavens-to-murgatroyd.html

and not surprisingly it got shut down pretty quickly.

The irony here is that Senator Reid would be banned from this thread for questioning others worthiness based on political views.

[USU78]

An outrage.

But unsurprising.

More's the pity.

And the things I could tell . . .

[Anijen]

Yes I was a bit hasty and did not notice the other thread. I wanted to keep the focus off of politics and on the subject of one member publicly accusing another as soiling their shared religion.

Volgadon brought up that as a world religion it should not matter. I certainly agree with him especially concerning political views because the worldwide membership does not care or feel as attached as say American members would.

Lets take the two American brethren and politics out and set up a more global scenario. If one leader a good member (temple recommend holder) and another good leader also a temple recommend holder and one makes the statement that the other has tarnished the reputation of the church without any evidence or support for such an accusation; is that acceptable behavior for a member to do?

I say it is not especially I think if the member being accused has been a Bishop and a Stake President. I know, I know, that there have been Bishops and Stake Presidents who have been bad and some even excommunicated but I would presume a high majority (95 percentile) are very good men. I think such an accusation without any support is for rhetorical purposes and does need some intervention from a priesthood leader.

Just my thoughts

[mtomm]

Romney has become the defacto face of Mormonism to many people whether we like that description or not. There are plenty of members and not just Harry Reid that are less than thrilled with how Mitt's actions have reflected on the church and also as on them because they are also members. They don't see this as criticism so much as calling a spade a spade.

I know many here think that because Mitt Romney has been and bishop and stake president that he certainly would never lie or say anything that would be in the least bit offensive for political gain. You may also choose to wear your rose colored glasses as you wish.

[Anijen]

Trying hard to keep this thread non political.

Lets stick with the global scenario I suggested so we can keep the name Romney and Reid out of the thread.

Edited to say; I realize the title does exactly opposite of my suggestion, but I want to attract the attention of those who might have some good views on this subject and also have the talent to keep the subject off the two brethren mentioned.

[ERayR]

Semi-political thread but I want the focus on one member claiming another has soiled our religion. As far as I know Reid has never been a Bishop or a Stake President, it would seem to me he is using a swipe at a good member for political reasons.

I find that this type of accusation is out of bounds and IMO hurts the church more than would help his party. I also think with Romney's past church positions as a Bishop and as a Stake President he has probably represented the church far better than Reid himself has.

Your thoughts?

see article here

IMNSHO that comment by Harry Reid is really quite ironic.

ps: A friend of mine who came from Nevada and knew Reid has very little good to say about Reid.

[mtomm]

Maybe the one brother just didn't state it very eloquently.

[ERayR]

Romney has become the defacto face of Mormonism to many people whether we like that description or not. There are plenty of members and not just Harry Reid that are less than thrilled with how Mitt's actions have reflected on the church and also as on them because they are also members. They don't see this as criticism so much as calling a spade a spade.

I know many here think that because Mitt Romney has been and bishop and stake president that he certainly would never lie or say anything that would be in the least bit offensive for political gain. You may also choose to wear your rose colored glasses as you wish.

Perhaps those you describe (see bolded portion) should stand in front of a mirror for a while. I remember something about a beam and a mote that sounded applicable here.

[mtomm]

Maybe I'll just refer back to the statements that infer that Mitt is a better person than Harry because he's been a bishop and a stake president.

When the people that I refer to are running for POTUS and stand in the national spotlight they can hold themselves to the same or higher standard. Agreed?

If you want to see judgement refer to the title of the previous thread on this very topic. Brother Reid was being called to a personal priesthood interview by an anonymous internet poster. And not just any PPI, it was felt it had to be with a member of the First Presidency.

I've watched the political threads on this board. Harry Reid has certainly his share of being mote/beamed and that never seems to get anyone's dander up. But disparaged Mitt and off come the gloves.

[jwhitlock]

Reid's statements are typical of one who puts the world first and the gospel second. While one can point to quite a number of prominent members of the church of both political parties who are Latter-day Saints first and foremost, and who live their religion and put politics second, Reid is definitely not one of those.

Quite pathetic, really.

[jwhitlock]

Maybe I'll just refer back to the statements that infer that Mitt is a better person than Harry because he's been a bishop and a stake president.

When the people that I refer to are running for POTUS and stand in the national spotlight they can hold themselves to the same or higher standard. Agreed?

If you want to see judgement refer to the title of the previous thread on this very topic. Brother Reid was being called to a personal priesthood interview by an anonymous internet poster. And not just any PPI, it was felt it had to be with a member of the First Presidency.

I've watched the political threads on this board. Harry Reid has certainly his share of being mote/beamed and that never seems to get anyone's dander up. But disparaged Mitt and off come the gloves.

You seem to be unable to understand the difference between differing political opinions and viewpoints, and rank hypocrisy.

You differ in your political viewpoints from Romney, and so want to demean him as a member of the Church. You also defend Reid's comments of making political viewpoints a litmus test for "faithful" church membership.

Perhaps if you can point out an incident where Romney has made such political judgments concerning membership and political affiliation, you might have a point. But until that time, both you and Reid are putting the world first over the gospel, and that kind of attitude is definitely worthy of condemnation.

[Anijen]

Maybe I'll just refer back to the statements that infer that Mitt is a better person than Harry because he's been a bishop and a stake president.

I in no way inferred that one was a better person because of his church callings. I mention church callings because you usually are in the eye of members a good person if called to one of those positions, and IMO the leaders of our church usually do not call bad people to those positions. I in no way made any implication that Romney was the better man for it.

If you want to see judgement refer to the title of the previous thread on this very topic. Brother Reid was being called to a personal priesthood interview by an anonymous internet poster. And not just any PPI, it was felt it had to be with a member of the First Presidency.

Lets keep to the topic of this thread and keep those two political brothers out of the context.

[DavidB]

For those who can not separate a person from the LDS Church, Romney has suilied the Mormon people.

Romney is not the face of Mormonism.

There is nothing wrong or immoral about stating a truthful claim towards another member of the Church.

Does anyone share the same outrage against Scott Gordon for his accusation against David Twede? Or is there a difference between Romney making Mormon look like elitist who will alienate half the population and someone who posts both sides of historical issues pertaining to the early history and leaders of the LDS Church?

[KevinG]

Maybe the one brother just didn't state it very eloquently.

I don't find that excuse very convincing for anyone who has made a lifetime career of national politics. It's not like this was a toss away comment on a hidden recorder.

[KevinG]

Equivocation between slandering someone who happens to be Mormon and is running for president vs. calling someone who is actively trying to pull people from the LDS church apostate?

I don't even know where to begin with that one.

I had a similar run over using apostate in its proper context with someone else a few weeks back. Since when did apostate become a slur and not a proper description of someone rejecting or opposing their former faith?

[Calm]

We discussed this over here... http://www.phrases.o...murgatroyd.html

Your link is not to a thread.

[Calm]

Does anyone share the same outrage against Scott Gordon for his accusation against David Twede?....someone who posts both sides of historical issues pertaining to the early history and leaders of the LDS Church?

David Twede's offense was not posting both sides of the historical issue as there are plenty of faithful LDS and nonLDS who do so who don't get any negative notice from FAIR and in fact we use their material/research on our website. Twede's questionable action was in his professed intent to lead others out of the Church as he stated himself on his blog, I believe, and trying to hide this intent from those he was trying to persuade as well as other church members.

I love how so many are willing to attack others' integrity without being willing to get the facts right first.

[DavidB]

Calmoriah, the thread is about members accusing each other. Truth of the accusation did not seem to be a factor. So regardless of twedes intent one member accused another. But that sitaution is kind of a derail.

[KevinG]

Your link is not to a thread.

oops... pasted the wrong cut.

[KevinG]

Truth of the accusation did not seem to be a factor.

It is for me. Please speak for yourself.

[TAO]

Guys, Reid will claim what he will claim. Let it lie.

The important thing is that we don't degenerate to all the name-calling stuff that goes on in politics.

[mapman]

In my opinion, what Reid said actually helps the church. I've seen countless articles in the news where people assume that everything about Romney can be explained by Mormonism. Whether it is fair or not, lots of people perceive Romney as being elitist and uncaring. My guess is that Reid was fed up with his religion being associated with Romney in so many people's minds so he spoke out against it. I think this will help the church by helping people see the diversity within Mormonism and help people not assume that all Mormons think like Romney. Whether or not it was ethical for Reid to say what he said is a different matter. I'd say it was unacceptable for him to say that Romney sullied our religion, but I agree that it is bad for Romney to be seen as the face of Mormonism. Mormonism has many faces.

[Garden Girl]

I want to get my comments in before this thread gets shut down...

I am livid over Reid's comments about Romney... Reid is an abject hypocrite. His history with some land deals raised eyebrows some years ago. But the picture I will never get over is how Reid came walking out to the podium and proceeded to lie about Romney in saying that "the cat was out of the bag" that Romney had not paid taxes for the last ten years... that he had this information from a "reliable" source... blah blah blah... totally false, yet he stood there spewing forth this vitriolic lie to all the world. Shame on him then, and shame on him now...

GG

[Calm]

Calmoriah, the thread is about members accusing each other. Truth of the accusation did not seem to be a factor. So regardless of twedes intent one member accused another. But that sitaution is kind of a derail.

You were the one who made the statement/accusation. If you don't want corrections of accusations to be posted, don't be incorrect.