I Am Not A Christian

[Bikeemikey]

Mormons believe:

God is massively more intelligent than us

God has a more perfected physical body than we do

God lives in the same universe we do as an embodied being that can be in only one place at a time

God lives on a planet

God had a son he sent to earth to save mankind

God is a space alien, specifically, God is supermans father from the new man of steel movie.

[Ahab]

They go by the same names, but their doctrines and their natures are different. I don't see why we disagree with them, just tell them, "Yep, we don't believe in the god that you do, go ahead and worship gas if you want."

I tend to start with Jesus, acknowledging that they're talking about the Jesus referenced in the Bible. Yes, I know some people think our Father is a gas, or an unembodied whatever, but while I know they're wrong about that I can still acknowledge the points they get right. They are talking about the Father of Jesus, even if they don't really know how he was born, or how we were born as his children.

[Ahab]

God is a space alien, specifically

He is in space and he isn't native to this planet.

It's only how you're thinking of the words "space alien" that is making you think that is a false statement.

[Stone holm]

I tend to start with Jesus, acknowledging that they're talking about the Jesus referenced in the Bible. Yes, I know some people think our Father is a gas, or an unembodied whatever, but while I know they're wrong about that I can still acknowledge the points they get right. They are talking about the Father of Jesus, even if they don't really know how he was born, or how we were born as his children.

Except most do not believe that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament.

[Stone holm]

He is in space and he isn't native to this planet.

It's only how you're thinking of the words "space alien" that is making you think that is a false statement.

Of course He is a space alien.

[Ahab]

Of course He is a space alien.

Yes, and we are too, if you can handle thinking about it that way.

We were living somewhere else in space before we came here, and we may not be staying here when this is all over.

[Stone holm]

Yes, and we are too, if you can handle thinking about it that way.

We were living somewhere else in space before we came here, and we may not be staying here when this is all over.

Spiritually, but He was a space alien both spiritually and physically.

[Ahab]

Spiritually, but He was a space alien both spiritually and physically.

His spiritual elements came from some place, though, and so did the elements of his (other) physical body.

Interesting thoughts, I think, and I was just thinking the other day about how strange it can seem to think of what we are.

[Stone holm]

His spiritual elements came from some place, though, and so did the elements of his (other) physical body.

Interesting thoughts, I think, and I was just thinking the other day about how strange it can seem to think of what we are.

True, I suspect then all beings are spiritual aliens to where they live eternally.

[Bikeemikey]

He is in space and he isn't native to this planet.

It's only how you're thinking of the words "space alien" that is making you think that is a false statement.

I am not sure I think it is a false statement. The common understanding of space alien fits god pretty well.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Bikeemikey

[Stone holm]

I am not sure I think it is a false statement. The common understanding of space alien fits god pretty well.

Why do I have the theme from the Twilight Zone playing in my head?

[Anakin7]

Your statement below (as an aside) is what I had in mind when I used “Tanyan” for your screen name earlier.

By me saying below that, “you don’t accurately reflect the Mormon view of God. . .”, you were making your points to those you were talking to using Evangelical verbiage before I knew who you were, a bit disingenuous to me on your part after listening to you before the different meetings had actually started):

It wasn't exactly a positive but I did finally get to meet you in person after tying to before these meetings when we were at ZLMB for several years before.

Thanks for sharing that.

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

[Ahab]

I am not sure I think it is a false statement. The common understanding of space alien fits god pretty well.

Well, most people don't think of people like us when they think of space aliens, but if that's what you're thinking, okay.

I know it's more accurate to say we are like him more than he is like us, but when it comes to the kind of being he is, we are exactly the same kind of being and we came from the same main body of space (universe) he came from. And I say that because too many people want to make it seem as if there is a vast difference between the kind of being he is and the kind of being we are.

[Stone holm]

Well, most people don't think of people like us when they think of space aliens, but if that's what you're thinking, okay.

I know it's more accurate to say we are like him more than he is like us, but when it comes to the kind of being he is, we are exactly the same kind of being and we came from the same main body of space (universe) he came from. And I say that because too many people want to make it seem as if there is a vast difference between the kind of being he is and the kind of being we are.

We can't help it if they think of space alien as some type of ET or as a Roswellian creature.

[coolrok7]

“a bit disingenuous to me on your part”

[Calmoriah asking in post #98] Are you claiming that this is what he appeared to be then to you, but you have since changed your mind now that you know him a bit better or are you claiming his approach was and is "a bit disingenuous".

“you were making your points to those you were talking to using Evangelical verbiage”

Can you explain to me what is wrong with trying to speak to someone in their own language?

Based on what I heard him saying at the time (you would have had to have been there to understand as it would be hard to explain it), I didn’t think he was justified in making his points (my perspective) the way he did concerning Mormonism using Evangelical verbiage which ultimately has different meaning behind the terminology used.

There is nothing necessarily wrong if used correctly but in his case it wasn’t from my perspective. I don’t doubt the genuineness of his faith (misplaced in my view) just in how he chooses to represent what I believe is not Biblical/not appropriate for one who claims to be Christian in their faith even though I am not his judge.

I don’t see a need to change my mind on the point of his being disingenuous. I refer to it here as a comment in passing relating to using Tanyan inadvertently instead of Anakin7 in my opening post #86 ( that I thought he would understand as he specifically had a post in ZLMB concerning the meeting at Mariners church).

His continual saying to me, “coolrok my missouri Lutheran synod friend thank you for your post”, also a bit disingenuous when he later follows up with, “I Am reminded once again of mote's and Beam's and casting stones syndrom of many” which is directed at me again as he almost always does.

I knew him way before here over at ZLMB (not in person) so there is more to it than what I’ve stated. I remember when I first heard him talking in person at the Mariner meetings.

I didn’t know it was Tanyan7 (Anakin7 here) until about a month or so later. It puzzled me at first by the way he was talking.

Mormonism I think in some instances doesn’t fit the Biblical/Evangelical language. He can be a Mormon all he wants but Mormonism based on what I know doesn’t equate to Biblical teaching at critical points of doctrine.

I’m here initially based on his invitation from ZLMB as I didn’t know that MADB (now MDDB) existed at the time.

The meetings demonstrated how hard it is to get through the language barrier as the Mormons I were seated at the same table with, had a problem hearing what I was trying to tell them over some of the discussion questions given to us to discuss.

[Bikeemikey]

Well, most people don't think of people like us when they think of space aliens, but if that's what you're thinking, okay.

I know it's more accurate to say we are like him more than he is like us, but when it comes to the kind of being he is, we are exactly the same kind of being and we came from the same main body of space (universe) he came from. And I say that because too many people want to make it seem as if there is a vast difference between the kind of being he is and the kind of being we are.

Most people tend to think of space aliens as intelligent beings from another part of space. That is the common thread. After that you have the variations on the theme; little green aliens, ET, aliens that burst out of your stomach.

The recent trend in sci-fi narratives involving other world life has been increasingly humanoid (culminating in the remake of Superman who is the ultimate space alien but 100% identical in appearance to human).

Our God is humanoid and very similar to us.

Our god is super intelligent.

Our has a real body.

Our god lives on another planet.

Our god uses advanced technology (whether spiritual or scientific) to travel to earth and communicate with earth.

You replace God with entity and run that list past the average (non mormon) westerner their going to say space alien.

Add to the list they sent there Son to earth to teach and help mankind (maybe or maybe not use save) and their going to say - your talking about the father of Clark kent from the new super man movie.

The mormon God most certainly fits the definition of the current conception of space alien more than it does the current Christian conception of God.

I also have no objection to this.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Bikeemikey

[Calm]

Mormonism I think in some instances doesn’t fit the Biblical/Evangelical language. He can be a Mormon all he wants but Mormonism based on what I know doesn’t equate to Biblical teaching at critical points of doctrine.

So what I get from all of this is because he didn't say things the way you thought they should be said, he was being disingenuous....even if perhaps he understood either his own faith (quite likely) or the Evangelical language (also quite likely) differently than you do.

[Bikeemikey]

So what I get from all of this is because he didn't say things the way you thought they should be said, he was being disingenuous....even if perhaps he understood either his own faith (quite likely) or the Evangelical language (also quite likely) differently than you do.

It's because we as Mormons use words imbued with fundamentally different definitions in the evangelical context and then often argue that the meanings are really the same.

[Calm]

It's because we as Mormons use words imbued with fundamentally different definitions in the evangelical context and then often argue that the meanings are really the same.

I have no issue with saying that some of us use the language in the wrong way, but to assume someone who is doing this is being disingenuous (which is defined as intentional deception) may be a false accusation unless one has heard them use it properly at other times.

[Bikeemikey]

I have no issue with saying that some of us use the language in the wrong way, but to assume someone who is doing this is being disingenuous (which is defined as intentional deception) may be a false accusation unless one has heard them use it properly at other times.

Your right rather than engaging in intentional deception they may be engaging in ignorant deception.

Either way they should be told to stop.

[Storm Rider]

Of course He is a space alien.

He is also our Heavenly Father. I understand that is not nearly as sensational as space alien, but it is more accurate also.

[Storm Rider]

It's because we as Mormons use words imbued with fundamentally different definitions in the evangelical context and then often argue that the meanings are really the same.

What examples do you have?

[Bikeemikey]

He is also our Heavenly Father. I understand that is not nearly as sensational as space alien, but it is more accurate also.

Most accurate is that he is both.

[Storm Rider]

Most accurate is that he is both.

Says who?

[Bikeemikey]

Says who?

The current use of current English language.