cinepro Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) Martin Harris' certainty that taking the translation to convince his wife....That isn't an example of "would-be trickle up" revelation. It was actual trickle up revelation, because God actually gave a revelation giving permission for him to take the pages.Granted, it didn't end well (and God knew it wouldn't), but it isn't an example of the process going awry. It might even indicate that with enough pressure, God might reveal his acquiescence on the matter of SSM, even if He knew it would be a bad thing for the Church...The story of Martin Harris and the 116 pages might also be an example of the Golden Rule (v.2): The Man With The Gold Makes the Rules. I mean, does anyone thing the story of the 116 pages might have ended differently if Martin Harris wasn't financially supporting the endeavor? Edited August 13, 2012 by cinepro
Scott Lloyd Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 That isn't an example of "would-be trickle up" revelation. It was actual trickle up revelation, because God actually gave a revelation giving permission for him to take the pages.Granted, it didn't end well (and God knew it wouldn't), but it isn't an example of the process going awry. It might even indicate that with enough pressure, God might reveal his acquiescence on the matter of SSM, even if He knew it would be a bad thing for the Church...Or it might be an illustration of the wisdom of backing off on matters on which God has already revealed His mind and will -- such as the definition of marriage. 1
Damien the Leper Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 In other words, it's not all "top-down" governance by Jesus. He not only allows us, but expects us, to be part of the process.This is where Community of Christ is getting things correct and it is working well for them: They are not ONLY a people with a prophet but they are called to be a PROPHETIC PEOPLE. 1
Calm Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) That isn't an example of "would-be trickle up" revelation. It was actual trickle up revelation, because God actually gave a revelation giving permission for him to take the pages.This is the negative parallel to Emma and the WoW and God made it clear it was contrary to his will even if he used it to teach Joseph a lesson.It is an example of what happens when people think they know better than God. Edited August 13, 2012 by calmoriah 2
Cobalt-70 Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 Or it might be an illustration of the wisdom of backing off on matters on which God has already revealed His mind and will -- such as the definition of marriage.Tell that to Wilford Woodruff.If you think that the definition of marriage found in the church's latest official press release on the issue--"the union of one man and one woman"--is God's eternal definition, then first of all, tell me how God was speaking and defining English terminology such as "marriage" in the eternal eons before English was invented, and second, explain how God's Kolobese Language edition of Webster's could possibly define "marriage" in a way that excludes polygamy.Moreover, had Wilford Woodruff "backed off" on the issue of polygamy, perhaps we'd all still be living in polygamist families, and running from the law. Had Spencer Kimball "backed off" the issue of racial discrimination, perhaps we would still be barring blacks from the priesthood. Had Moses "backed off" YHWH's intent to destroy Israel and create from Moses a new nation (Ex. 32:9), perhaps the Israelites never would have existed. Sometimes, either: (1) circumstances change, (2) the last prophet's understanding of God's will was wrong, or (3) somebody needs to change God's mind. 2
Cobalt-70 Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 That's about as blatant a rationalization for a populist-driven, as opposed to a divinely directed, church as I have ever encountered.I think you have a false dichotomy. It's not either contextual or revelatory. Revelation always comes within a social or cultural context. Name one section of the D&C that did not come in response to a specific problem, pressure, or intellectual influence to which the church was subject at the time. 1
cinepro Posted August 14, 2012 Posted August 14, 2012 This is the negative parallel to Emma and the WoW and God made it clear it was contrary to his will even if he used it to teach Joseph a lesson.It is an example of what happens when people think they know better than God.Or when God needs that person's money to get His book published. 1
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