Jump to content

Brazilian Convert Retention?


BookofMormonLuvr

Recommended Posts

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 7:14

18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Matthew 13

Link to comment

Gee, how many Catholics disappeared? Did you check those stats too? Why not? Why should you care?

And how are the Bah'i doing in Brazil anyway?

I think it must be because of the rapture or something. Here today- then poof- they're gone! That's what happens when you believe in magic!

Link to comment

The church claims it has 1,138,740 members of the church in Brazil but the 2010 Brazilian census found that only 225,695 people identified as Latter-day Saints...a difference of 913,045 members or an 81% overstatement of the actual number of people who identify as members of the church.

http://www.sltrib.co...latter.html.csp

Well since I have a dog in the fight because my wife and kids are Brazillian. I know at least 15 who moved to the US some are inactive and so their records still reside in Brazil, so they would show up on the church records but not the census.

Link to comment

That's a great

I just learned the chord changes on the guitar -- including John Sebastian's distinctive intro.

I could tell some stories about that song but then everyone would know how old I really am. Great video!

Link to comment

I could tell some stories about that song but then everyone would know how old I really am. Great video!

Are you a child of the Sixties like I am?

If so, it might interest you to know that Herman's Hermits and the Rascals are both appearing this weekend at Draper Park just a couple of minutes away from my house -- and the concerts are free!

Link to comment

Well, its a curious thing, but having dealt with datasets for most of my professional career, this does not particularly trouble me. There are lots of things that can happen and you just have to dig down into the details.

This is one of the reasons I like to have more than one source of data.

Link to comment

If you look at the number of wards in Brazil, in 2010 there were 1361 wards. If the average attendance of a ward is about 175 (pretty typical worldwide) that means that you would have about 238,000 active members. So yes, there is a difference between the number of people listed as members (who have been baptized and confirmed) and the number who attend or self identify as members.

But that is not unique to the LDS Church. When I was in Austria on my mission, the country was 85% Catholic - there were 6.3 million Catholics out of a population of 7.5 million. But average Sunday attendance is about 8% (link)

I'm sure that there are a lot of Baptists, Catholics, etc who are still listed as members of their respective congregations who have since joined the LDS Church. I don't think that there is any effort on our side to formally request that their names get removed from the records of their previous faith.

Actually in Austria, there was, because if they didn't get their name officially removed from the Catholic rolls, they were still subject to the 1% Church Tax that is automatically collected from members.

But I don't think this is anything surprising. They aren't "missing" nor is the Church overstating or lying about the number of members. And I don't think you would find any Church leader at any level who would deny that reactivation and retention efforts are a primary focus and concern in the church.

In any case, it is a classics straw man argument. The church "claims" a certain number of member, "but" a different number self identify as members. Your second statement doesn't contradict the first, so any conclusion of an "overstatement" is by definition a logical fallacy.

Link to comment

Are you a child of the Sixties like I am?

If so, it might interest you to know that Herman's Hermits and the Rascals are both appearing this weekend at Draper Park just a couple of minutes away from my house -- and the concerts are free!

Hey man- I will stick out my thumb and be there to crash on your couch, since I do not live in Utah. And as far as the sixties, I lived through them once and now am doing it again! ;)

Link to comment

The church claims it has 1,138,740 members of the church in Brazil but the 2010 Brazilian census found that only 225,695 people identified as Latter-day Saints...a difference of 913,045 members or an 81% overstatement of the actual number of people who identify as members of the church.

http://www.sltrib.co...latter.html.csp

I don't think its a big surprise to many people in the church since most members know that member retention in central and south america has been very poor, as was the case where I served my mission in the Dominican Republic.

However, I'm not sure how confident one can be in census numbers conducted in lesser developed countries.

Link to comment

Hey man- I will stick out my thumb and be there to crash on your couch, since I do not live in Utah. And as far as the sixties, I lived through them once and now am doing it again! ;)

I lived through them once and don't want to again. Having too much fun now.

Link to comment

I lived through them once and don't want to again. Having too much fun now.

Oh I hear tell you can also have fun in your sixties. ;)

In any case, I suppose it beats the alternative.

Link to comment

I find this number interesting having served a mission in Central Mexico during the mid 70's. The program there was to teach one discussion of 1 hour and then pressure the people into being baptized. We gave lip service to testimony, repentence, etc but in one hour how much repentence can really be done. The leaders made a lot of excuses and arguments as to why what we were doing was correct. We were beaten up with the adage "Obedience is the first law of the Celestial Kingdom". and we did what we were told. Our highest baptizing month was over 1000 baptisms spread among about 60 companionships and I doubt even 10 of those ever attended church even once except for their baptism. The problem wasn't retention or reactivation. The problem was the Mission President, Regional Representative, Area Authority, Assistants to the President, Zone Leaders and District Leaders were pushing a program where we wasted our time to the detriment of the Church. We did a lot of baptizing but very little teaching or converting (I know, we don't convert, the Spirit does but when the Spirit is soo ashamed of what we are doing that he won't come around, he doesn't do much converting). When I see the census numbers in Mexico, Chile, Brazil, Phillipines, etc I find it interesting that a lot of people make snyde comments as if it's nothing. Having served in Mexico during the glory days, I know just exactly what causes these kinds of numbers. I was very happy when President Hinckley changed the rules and now a convert has to be confirmed the sunday after the baptism or the number won't count. A simple rule such as this would have completely changed my mission.

Link to comment

The church claims it has 1,138,740 members of the church in Brazil but the 2010 Brazilian census found that only 225,695 people identified as Latter-day Saints...a difference of 913,045 members or an 81% overstatement of the actual number of people who identify as members of the church.

http://www.sltrib.co...latter.html.csp

This is a total non starter Craig. Now, can you figure out why I said that?

You know why people think you just like stirring the hornet's nest with your "anti-Mormonism"?

Because just about every post of your's posits the church in a bad light. Everything they do is nefarious. It is tired dude.

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...