Damien the Leper Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 The church claims it has 1,138,740 members of the church in Brazil but the 2010 Brazilian census found that only 225,695 people identified as Latter-day Saints...a difference of 913,045 members or an 81% overstatement of the actual number of people who identify as members of the church.http://www.sltrib.co...latter.html.cspYour post seems to demand that the Church keep tabs on whether or not someone still identifies as LDS. That is NOT the church's problem.People CHOOSE to join the church and are not coerced or threatened. How they later choose to identify is their responsibility. If they do not remove their names from the church records then that is their fault.
The Grimace Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 It is no mystery that wards and branches have less than 100% attendance rates. Every ward and branch I have attended in North America has somewhere between 30-40% attendance.The Church claims a membership number of around14 million and one can state that this is just open-book statistical reporting. Yet, prophets and apostles use the total membership number as a way to show the strength of the church, as seen in this video: An interesting question, then, is whether the recorded membership number is really an accurate representation of the strength of a church, or is the active membership number a better representation?
Craig Paxton Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 This is a total non starter Craig. Now, can you figure out why I said that?You know why people think you just like stirring the hornet's nest with your "anti-Mormonism"?Because just about every post of your's posits the church in a bad light. Everything they do is nefarious. It is tired dude.My posts put the church in a bad light???? The numbers put the church in neither a good or bad light...they merely suggest that something is terribly wrong with the churches ability to retain members in Brazil.So...it is now anti mormon to report activity rates or the lack of activity? It is now stirring the hornets nest to share a link to a newspaper article that challenges a popular but false notion?The numbers put the churches effort in Brazil in a bad light NOT me nor my post. It is the church that seems to have a difficult time retaining its baptised members Not me. When has merely pointing out something that appears to be the truth been anti anything?If the numbers are wrong or suggest something that is incorrect...then challenge the numbers or the activity rates or the churches efforts in retaining members...or you can shoot the messenger...since that seems to be the easier road.
The Grimace Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 My posts put the church in a bad light???? The numbers put the church in a neither good or bad but difficult light. Is it now anti mormon to report activity rates or the lack of activity? Is it now stirring the hornets nest to share a link to an newspaper article that challenges popular but false notions?The numbers put the churches effort in Brazil in a bad light NOT me nor my post. It is the church has seems to have a difficult time retaining its baptised members Not me. When has merely pointing out something that appears to be the truth been anti anything?If the numbers are wrong or suggest something that is incorrect...then challenge the numbers or the activity rates or the churches efforts in retaining members...or you can shoot the messenger...since that seems to be the easier road.I have to agree. Craig didn't conduct the study, he simple posted the results.
Zakuska Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I have to agree. Craig didn't conduct the study, he simple posted the results.Oh go eat some french fries already!
ERayR Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 My posts put the church in a bad light???? The numbers put the church in neither a good or bad light...they merely suggest that something is terribly wrong with the churches ability to retain members in Brazil.So...it is now anti mormon to report activity rates or the lack of activity? It is now stirring the hornets nest to share a link to a newspaper article that challenges a popular but false notion?The numbers put the churches effort in Brazil in a bad light NOT me nor my post. It is the church that seems to have a difficult time retaining its baptised members Not me. When has merely pointing out something that appears to be the truth been anti anything?If the numbers are wrong or suggest something that is incorrect...then challenge the numbers or the activity rates or the churches efforts in retaining members...or you can shoot the messenger...since that seems to be the easier road.I will have to agree with you the numbers do not put the church in any kind of light as they have nothing to do with whether the church is good or bad. However your clever innuendo that the church is lying about membership numbers is duly noted.
Craig Paxton Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I have to agree. Craig didn't conduct the study, he simple posted the results.You may want to be careful with whom you side with...my reputation here is...ummm rather nefarious....and I wouldn't want my reputation to rub off nor impune your image
ERayR Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 You may want to be careful with whom you side with...my reputation here is...ummm rather nefarious....and I wouldn't want my reputation to rub off nor impune your imageWe believe man will be punished for his own sins and not Craig's.
Craig Paxton Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I will have to agree with you the numbers do not put the church in any kind of light as they have nothing to do with whether the church is good or bad. However your clever innuendo that the church is lying about membership numbers is duly noted.CFR....where exactly have I said that the church is lying about church membership numbers?Let me state emphatically that I agree with claimed Brazilian church membership of 1,138,740 as reported by the church. I believe this to be a true number. What that number doesn’t show is that only 19% of them self-identify as being members of the church. An over estimate of 913,045
Whiskeypete Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I have to agree. Craig didn't conduct the study, he simple posted the results.No, he is the one who simply made an invalid comparison of the measurement of two different sets of statistics, and drew a conclusion that the church was misstating its membership numbers. The problem isn't the numbers. They seem to be accurate. The problem is the false comparison and the implication of wrongdoing by the Church.
The Grimace Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 No, it's not.Hmmm. I couldn't reply to the thread and an image at the top of the thread says 'locked'. Maybe it isn't open to newbies?
The Grimace Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 You may want to be careful with whom you side with...my reputation here is...ummm rather nefarious....and I wouldn't want my reputation to rub off nor impune your imageI'm The Grimace, man! How much worse can my image get?
Scott Lloyd Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Hey man- I will stick out my thumb and be there to crash on your couch, since I do not live in Utah. And as far as the sixties, I lived through them once and now am doing it again! Last time Herman's Hermits performed in Draper was a few years ago. The Draper Utah Temple up on the mountain was nearing completion, and Peter Noone pointed it out. Then he joked about Ebenezer Brown, the Mormon pioneer who founded Draper, being the ancestor of Mrs. Brown in the Hermits' hit song "Mrs. Brown, You've Got a Lovely Daughter."Peter has great stage presence.
Whiskeypete Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 CFR....where exactly have I said that the church is lying about church membership numbers?Let me state emphatically that I agree with claimed Brazilian church membership of 1,138,740 as reported by the church. I believe this to be a true number. What that number doesn’t show is that only 19% of them self-identify as being members of the church. An over estimate of 913,045The "lie" is that the anyone estimated that 1.1 million Brazilians currently self identify as members of the church. Therefore there was never an over estimate of 913,045.---Holy Moving Threads, Batman -
Craig Paxton Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Last time Herman's Hermits performed in Draper was a few years ago. The Draper Utah Temple up on the mountain was nearing completion, and Peter Noone pointed it out. Then he joked about Ebenezer Brown, the Mormon pioneer who founded Draper, being the ancestor of Mrs. Brown in the Hermits' hit song "Mrs. Brown, You've Got a Lovely Daughter."Peter has great stage presence.Well I'll be attending the Happy Together Tour tonight at the Sandy Amphitheater with Gary Pucket and the Union Gap, The Turtles, Whats left of the Monkeys and Grassroots and the Buckinghams...
Calm Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Hmmm. I couldn't reply to the thread and an image at the top of the thread says 'locked'. Maybe it isn't open to newbies?You were confused with another thread CP had started. The thread referred to is the one that now contains both threads here "In the News".
Craig Paxton Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I'm The Grimace, man! How much worse can my image get?well it could be like mine....I don't get much love here...
Craig Paxton Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 The "lie" is that the anyone estimated that 1.1 million Brazilians currently self identify as members of the church. Therefore there was never an over estimate of 913,045.---Holy Moving Threads, Batman -The church claims a membership of 1.1 million Brazilians...only 19% of that number claim membership in the church...The 1.1 million membership number while perhaps true is misleading and gives a false impression...membership does not equal participation/activity.The church is always trumpeting its 14+ million membership...wouldn't it be less misleading if it merely said we currently have 14+ million members worldwide and about 19% (or whatever the correct number is) of that number participate actively in the church or self identify as members...but of course that will never happen...and we all know why...it would undermine the churches claims
Scott Lloyd Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Well I'll be attending the Happy Together Tour tonight at the Sandy Amphitheater with Gary Pucket and the Union Gap, The Turtles, Whats left of the Monkeys and Grassroots and the Buckinghams...I fervently wanted to be there for that one, but I couldn't justify the expenditure of funds. I console myself with the fact that I've seen all of those guys before in previous Happy Together Tours. And I just downloaded some Gary Puckett and Buckinghams mp3s. I'll just groove with my iPod.Peter Noone does put on a great show, though. And for admission, it's hard to beat free.I've not seen the Rascals in concert before, but I have interviewed Felix Cavaliere by telephone. A very gracious man. He told me the reason "Good Lovin'" on the Dr. Pepper commercial sounds so much like the original is that he's the one who cut the recording for the commercial. Nothing like authenticity.I could have seen the Beach Boys 50th anniversary reunion show on July 4 at the Freedom Festival in Provo, but again, didn't have the money to spend.It has been a great summer in Utah for oldies concerts.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Hmmm. I couldn't reply to the thread and an image at the top of the thread says 'locked'. Maybe it isn't open to newbies?I just checked again, and the thread's still open. Maybe newcomers are indeed restricted.
Craig Paxton Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 The church claims a membership of 1.1 million Brazilians...only 19% of that number claim membership in the church...The 1.1 million membership number while perhaps true is misleading and gives a false impression...membership does not equal participation/activity.The church is always trumpeting its 14+ million membership...wouldn't it be less misleading if it merely said we currently have 14+ million members worldwide and about 19% (or whatever the correct number is) of that number participate actively in the church or self identify as members...but of course that will never happen...and we all know why...it would undermine the churches claimsso another question....if 19% self identify as members...would it be safe to say that about 40% of that number would be considered active? If so that would leave a measly 90,278 that actually participate in the church in Brazil...
Scott Lloyd Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 ... whats left of the Monkeys...I had heard that Mickey Dolenz was the only one coming. Aren't Peter Tork and Michael Nesmeth still alive?
Scott Lloyd Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 You were confused with another thread CP had started. The thread referred to is the one that now contains both threads here "In the News".OK. I get it now.
Craig Paxton Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I had heard that Mickey Dolenz was the only one coming. Aren't Peter Tork and Micahel Nesmeth still alive?yes and yes
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