Is Gods Mercy Merited Or Arbitrarily Bestowed?

[Zakuska]

We read in the Torah about How God bestows his mercy thusly...

Exodus 20:6

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 5:10

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 7:9

9 Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

According to this Gods mercy is bestowed to commandment keepers even unto a thousand generations.

Then we have modern Calvinists reading Romans as God arbitrarily bestowing mercy on whom every he wants to.

http://www.insearchoftruth.org/articles/romans_9.html

For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth."Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. (Romans 9:15-18)

A Calvinistic Argument: Here we see God's sovereignty clearly being exercised ("on whomever I will"). Not man - but God has chosen who will be saved and who will be destroyed ("not of him who wills ... but of God who shows mercy"). Moreover, Paul uses Pharaoh as an example of one whom God hardened, just so God could demonstrate His power and sovereignty by punishing him. In addition to the Lord's sovereignty, His predestination again is manifested, because God raised up Pharaoh for this purpose. It was God who chose, created, manipulated, hardened, and destroyed.

So which is the true God? The God of Deuteronomy or the God of the Calvinists?

Is Gods mercy conditional/merited or arbitrary?

Edited July 13, 2012 by Zakuska

[selek1]

Monty, I'm gonna go with Door #3.

We are all supplicants before the Lord.

He has laid out specific guidelines for us to follow- but even if we were to follow those guidelines perfectly, we remain beggars at his table.

None of us has any claim on the Lord, nor is in any position to make demands upon him.

Every beat of our heart occurs through his mercy, Every breath we take comes through his charity,

It is by mercy and charity that we live.

Should we be denied either we have no right to complain.

[Libs]

I think it is both. We receive according to what we give, but God is also infinitely merciful towards his children.

I do not believe there is anything arbitrary about God's mercy given to us. We are all shown a degree of mercy, as selek says, for the very air we breathe...for life, itself.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Libs

[CASteinman]

I think that the Calvinists are wrong -- as is typical with them. (Calvinism is a blight in Christianity) God is not arbitrary.

[Robert F. Smith]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6uXC06MWuQ

[Storm Rider]

Mercy and Grace are not merited, but are given freely to all that come to Christ. Yet, it can also be said that God's grace is given to all freely through the atonment and resurrection of Christ. The meriting part comes from a belief in a various kingdoms, glories, heavens. Our works define which degree of glory we achieve. Mercy is often given when asked for; I am thinking of the thief that hung on the cross with Jesus; his plea was immediately granted.

[Calm]

Our works define which degree of glory we achieve.

I prefer the term "correspond to" rather than "define". Edited July 14, 2012 by calmoriah

[bluebell]

Mercy and Grace are not merited, but are given freely to all that come to Christ.

If mercy and grace is only give when someone 'comes unto Christ', then doesn't that imply that mercy and grace is not freely given but is actually merited by the person's choice/action to embrace the Savior?

Can something be freely given if there is a condition a person must meet or something they must do before they can receive it?

[Robert F. Smith]

If mercy and grace is only give when someone 'comes unto Christ', then doesn't that imply that mercy and grace is not freely given but is actually merited by the person's choice/action to embrace the Savior?

Can something be freely given if there is a condition a person must meet or something they must do before they can receive it?

In law they sometimes speak about a deal consisting of both an offer and an acceptance. Just because you make a free offer doesn't mean that I accept it.

Is faith required to accept the free gift of grace? And is faith a "work"?

How should we parse II Nephi 25:23?

. . . be reconciled unto God;

for we know that it is by grace we are saved,

after all we can do.

Should we follow Robinson (Believing Christ) & Millett (After All We Can Do) on the efforts we must first make, or do we understand it according to Gardner's suggestion that the "after all we can do" refers to centuries of observance of the Law of Moses, i,.e., "after" being sequential in time and being the type which looks forward to the antitype which fulfills the Law. See Joe Spencer, An Other Testament, 94-95.

Cf. II Nephi 10:24

. . . reconcile yourselves to the will of God,

and not to the will of the devil and the flesh;

and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God,

that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved.

[TAO]

Like Selek and Libs said, God both gives mercy liberally, and gives mercy for obeying and keeping the commandments.

For the first, there is the parable of the Prodigal Son. For the second, there is Nephi 24:15-17 (which is a very beautiful set of verses).

[robuchan]

If it were merited it would be merit not grace.

[Mudcat]

So which is the true God? The God of Deuteronomy or the God of the Calvinists?

Is Gods mercy conditional/merited or arbitrary?

Many Calvinists are compatibilists. If it is true that God's will and mans free will are compatible. Then I don't see the Deuteronomy passages in conflict with such a Calvinist. It would just be that God determined who would follow his commandments and those he determined also freely chose to follow.

Other Calvinists are hard determinists. From such a standpoint, I don't think the idea of God showing mercy on those that love Him and keep his commandments is rejectable either. It would just be that God determined who would follow his commandments and those that follow didn't actually freely choose to follow them.

I am not a Calvinist, so take that with a grain of salt.

I don't make to much of the notion of God being arbitrary. I think everyone's theology leans on something being arbitrary somewhere... either it's God that is or Good that is. For the moment I am thinking God being arbitrary makes more sense.

[bluebell]

If it were merited it would be merit not grace.

That's completely true.

So, is it possible for God to require us to do something to access Christ's grace (like have faith in Christ and repent of our sins, for example) without that action (on our part) being described as an attempt to merit His grace?

And, if you have to do something (anything) to access grace, can it be described as freely given?

[CASteinman]

If it were merited it would be merit not grace.

Grace can be merited. There is no rule saying that grace always (or ever) throws out merit -- except in apostate creeds.

[bluebell]

Grace can be merited. There is no rule saying that grace always (or ever) throws out merit -- except in apostate creeds.

It's the definitions of the two words that make them a bit incompatible.

To merit something means to be worthy or deserving of it, and grace, in a religious connotation, implies a gift or blessing that is undeserved. What scenerio are you thinking of where something can be given through grace and yet still be merited? Maybe explaining what you mean will help clarify how both can exist at the same time.

[CASteinman]

It's the definitions of the two words that make them a bit incompatible.

To merit something means to be worthy or deserving of it, and grace, in a religious connotation, implies a gift or blessing that is undeserved. What scenerio are you thinking of where something can be given through grace and yet still be merited? Maybe explaining what you mean will help clarify how both can exist at the same time.

Here is the definition of the word grace from a secular dictionary:

1. elegance or beauty of form, manner, motion, or action: We watched her skate with effortless grace across the ice. Synonyms: attractiveness, charm, gracefulness, comeliness, ease, lissomeness, fluidity. Antonyms: stiffness, ugliness, awkwardness, clumsiness; klutziness.

2. a pleasing or attractive quality or endowment: He lacked the manly graces.

3. favor or goodwill. Synonyms: kindness, kindliness, love, benignity; condescension.

4. a manifestation of favor, especially by a superior: It was only through the dean's grace that I wasn't expelled from school. Synonyms: forgiveness, charity, mercifulness. Antonyms: animosity, enmity, disfavor.

5. mercy; clemency; pardon: He was saved by an act of grace from the governor. Synonyms: lenity, leniency, reprieve. Antonyms: harshness.

And here is the definition from the LDS Bible Dictionary:

Grace. A word that occurs frequently in the New Testament, especially in the writings of Paul. The main idea of the word is divine means of help or strength, given through the bounteous mercy and love of Jesus Christ.

It is through the grace of the Lord Jesus, made possible by his atoning sacrifice, that mankind will be raised in immortality, every person receiving his body from the grave in a condition of everlasting life. It is likewise through the grace of the Lord that individuals, through faith in the atonement of Jesus Christ and repentance of their sins, receive strength and assistance to do good works that they otherwise would not be able to maintain if left to their own means. This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts.

Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation, “It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Ne. 25:23). It is truly the grace of Jesus Christ that makes salvation possible. This principle is expressed in Jesus’ parable of the vine and the branches (John 15:1–11).

Neither of these definitions says that Grace is "unmerited" -- or anything like that. As far as I can tell Grace is "favor (from God)" and in context it seems to suggest something more, something like: "Power granted to Man out of God's favor so Man may accomplish something positive -- and perhaps out of ordinary mortal capacity".

Now, I do not insist that Grace *must* always be merited. The "favor of God" could, I suppose, be unmerited -- though I am hard pressed to think of an example when all conditions are accounted for. But I allow it might be possible because I do not pretend to know all things about God.

However, neither God nor His Prophets have said that it must be unmerited --- and typically it follows some sort of obedience, even if that obedience appears to be relatively trivial to us.

Below, I intend to show that "Grace = unmerited favor" is false by an appeal to the scriptures -- including the very scripture that is used to justify this concept -- a false concept brought to the world by the blight of Calvinism but which has pervaded thought so that even some Saints have accepted it without thinking about it too hard.

We can look at a few examples of scriptures and see whether the notion of "unmerited favor" makes sense:

James 4:5-10 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

The notion of "unmerited favor" does not make good sense in this passage -- which is encouraging discipline and obedience. If "grace" is "unmerited favor" then wouldn't the proud also have it as well? No.... there is something about being humble that merits this favor.

And now Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

How can someone "fall" from something that is unmerited? The fall is a result of lack of merit of some sort -- in this case, a lack of Faith in Christ.

Here is an example from the life of Christ as told in John and reiterated in D&C 93 And I, John, bear record that I beheld his glory, as the glory of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, even the Spirit of truth, which came and dwelt in the flesh, and dwelt among us. And I, John, saw that he received not of the fulness at the first, but received grace for grace; And he received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness; And thus he was called the Son of God, because he received not of the fulness at the first.

Are we really going to hold to a position that God granted favor unto Christ but Jesus did not merit that favor? I object to that idea.

Now for a passage from the Book of Mormon. Mormon chapter 2. And they did not come unto Jesus with broken hearts and contrite spirits, but they did curse God, and wish to die. Nevertheless they would struggle with the sword for their lives. And it came to pass that my sorrow did return unto me again, and I saw that the day of grace was passed with them, both temporally and spiritually; for I saw thousands of them hewn down in open rebellion against their God, and heaped up as dung upon the face of the land.

How does "unmerited favor" go away? On what conditions? Did God change? Did He run out of "unmerited favor" somehow?

And one more. Helaman chapter 12:24 And may God grant, in his great fulness, that men might be brought unto repentance and good works, that they might be restored unto grace for grace, according to their works.

Does it really make sense that God grants "unmerited favor" according to our works?

The notion of "grace" being "unmerited favor" is a false notion that emerges out of a false understanding of a single scripture -- Romans 11:5 & 6 -- which is then applied to the term generally as though the Bible (especially the writings of Paul) was a well understood dictionary. This false notion comes out of the blight of Christianity -- Calivinism -- and has infected other religions as well. However, Romans 11:6 is not saying that "grace is unmerited favor". It is saying that "election" (choosing and saving of some Israelites despite the general apostasy of the nation) comes as a result of grace and NOT as a result of the works (of the Law). Indeed, if grace were utterly unmerited favor, Romans 11 would make no sense -- because it is not ALL of Israel that obtains this election but only a few.

If it is totally unmerited favor then why would it not be all of Israel?

They must have done something. Perhaps the killing of the prophets and the worship of false gods upset Heavenly Father? Maybe the acceptance of Jesus pleased Him?

That is what I propose.

Edited July 14, 2012 by CASteinman

[djholmess]

As a Calvinist I think all the comments so far do not accurately portray Calvinism. E.g. Calvinists do not say God's giving grace is arbitrary.

To answer the initial question,

Gods's grace/mercy with regard to election, the New Birth & justification is not based on any merit of the individual whatsoever. Thus everyone who will spend eternity in the kingdom of God will all have this in common, no one is there due to any merit of their own; merit that either earned them entry or fulfilled the pre-requisites of recieving Gods grace.

Calvinists also believe that all those who have been born again by the unmerited grace of God (and only them) will do good works. It is therefore not wrong to say 'all those who do good works will be in the Kingdom of God' -because good works are a fruit of the grace of God. This isn't saying why they are in the kingdom, just what the people who are in the kingdom are like. However as Paul makes clear the only reason for why individuals are reconciled to God or do any good works is based on the freely given unmerited grace of God. As this grace is the foundation upon which faith and good works spring from it can't even be said that the faith or good works have any merit themselves before God because they themselves are gifts from God.

In terms of the defination of grace, obviously the word can mean different things in different contexts and authors. Yet in the Bible and specifically in Paul Calvinists would strongly believe the 'loving kindness' of God talked about is unmerited. Hence the concept of merited/ earned grace being an oxymoron. This concept of 'unmerited' grace is strongly linked to the belief in Total Depravity, namely that man in his fallen state is incapable of doing any good works by himself. Therefore before God he can have no merit upon which any receiving of grace is given. A good example of this is how Romans 1:18-3:18 (utter sinfulness of man) leads directly into the grace of God being given through faith.

Happy to try and explain further, obviously I haven't been very detailed in any specific part.

[CASteinman]

As a Calvinist I think all the comments so far do not accurately portray Calvinism. E.g. Calvinists do not say God's giving grace is arbitrary.

...

Happy to try and explain further, obviously I haven't been very detailed in any specific part.

I do not think you explained how it is not arbitrary.

First, I recognize that the word "arbitrary" is a human invention and does not spring out of the mouth of God. So, when we use the word "arbitrary" we are using a tool that is came from and is fitted to the human mind and its way of working. Certainly, the Bible explains that from God's perspective, "My ways are not your ways". However, I do not think it is convenient, much less possible, for us to discuss things in God's pure vocabulary. Thus we must consign ourselves to the human condition and use the words we understand. And in this case, its worse -- not just words that humans understand but mainly English speakers.

With that in mind, what are the criteria upon which God chooses undeserving people to save and other undeserving people to damn? Using the human and English word "arbitrary", how does this word not apply to this mysterious selection process? Or, if it is not mysterious, please provide the exact formulation by which this choice of His is made? Please include in your response an explanation of how Romans 9:10-24 does not, under the concepts of Calvinism, describe a deity who is "arbitrary"?

(And yes, it is understood that this is a human English word that may not be adequate to the task of describing God in all things, but the point is -- we are humans attempting to communicate using such imperfect words)

I am thinking of the verses that say things like this:

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth) It was said unto her, "The elder shall serve the younger". As it is written, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated".

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory

Under the doctrines of Calvinism and using the human English concept of "arbitrary" how do these verses not show an "arbitrary" nature? Is it a mystery?

Edited July 14, 2012 by CASteinman

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Monty, I'm gonna go with Door #3.

We are all supplicants before the Lord.

He has laid out specific guidelines for us to follow- but even if we were to follow those guidelines perfectly, we remain beggars at his table.

None of us has any claim on the Lord, nor is in any position to make demands upon him.

Every beat of our heart occurs through his mercy, Every breath we take comes through his charity,

It is by mercy and charity that we live.

Should we be denied either we have no right to complain.

it's my money and I trust them.

[djholmess]

Let's define how we are using the word arbitrary first;

Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle: stopped at the first motel we passed, an arbitrary choice. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/arbitrary

When you were accusing Calvinism of viewing Gods choice as arbitrary I assumed you ment it in the sense above?

If so Calvinists do not think this is the case at all.

Yes we believe Gods choice of who to give grace to isn't based on anything good or bad they did themselves. But it doesn't follow that His choice is then just based on a whim or impulse.

We believe that behind Gods choice of whom to show mercy too there is a purpose - the same purpose behind why God does everything in creating and rulling this world. Namely, to uphold and display the glory of his grace for the everlasting joy and praise of his redeemed people.

Therefore when God chooses whom to be mercyfull towards his choice is designed to fully and maximally display his glory in Christs salvation of that person.

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory

Under the doctrines of Calvinism and using the human English concept of "arbitrary" how do these verses not show an "arbitrary" nature? Is it a mystery?

Within the very verse you quoted we see that there is a purpose behind Gods choice. He desires to show his wrath and the riches of his glory to a certain people. If you want to know why God chose me instead of someone else then this indeed is a kind a 'mystery.' A mystery with certain qualifiers of course 1) it wasn't based on anything I had done, 2) it was based on Gods plan and purpose to most fully display his glory 3) it was designed to show the freedom of God in that He has mercy on whom He chooses-he is not bound by anything but himself.

So with regard to Gods reasons and purposes the choice was not arbitrary in the slightest.

Btw we (most of us) are also careful to make a clear distinction between Gods choice in bestowing mercy/grace and his choice in showing wrath. For the damned Gods choice is simply to give them justice-they get exactly what they deserve for their sins. So Gods choice in this case isn't unfair in anyway, no one can say they don't deserve the punishment of hell.

[CASteinman]

Let's define how we are using the word arbitrary first;

Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle: stopped at the first motel we passed, an arbitrary choice. http://www.thefreedi...y.com/arbitrary

When you were accusing Calvinism of viewing Gods choice as arbitrary I assumed you ment it in the sense above?

I was thinking more like this:

1. subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion: an arbitrary decision.

2. decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute.

3. having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical: an arbitrary government.

4. capricious; unreasonable; unsupported: an arbitrary demand for payment.

Any of them would do but I am thinking specifically of the main definition -- Item #1 or the last one.. Item #4.

[CASteinman]

Yes we believe Gods choice of who to give grace to isn't based on anything good or bad they did themselves. But it doesn't follow that His choice is then just based on a whim or impulse. We believe that behind Gods choice of whom to show mercy too there is a purpose - the same purpose behind why God does everything in creating and rulling this world. Namely, to uphold and display the glory of his grace for the everlasting joy and praise of his redeemed people. Therefore when God chooses whom to be mercyfull towards his choice is designed to fully and maximally display his glory in Christs salvation of that person.

Yes, you have this reason WHY he is arbitrary --- he is arbitrary because he wants to show off the display of Glory and Sovereign Power.

So you have explained WHY he is arbitrary rather than HOW he is NOT arbitrary. Apparently, having a good reason negates any interest and actually subverts the idea that he is not arbitrary.

I am open to an explanation of how he is not arbitrary in these actions, but you have not shown it.

[CASteinman]

Within the very verse you quoted we see that there is a purpose behind Gods choice. He desires to show his wrath and the riches of his glory to a certain people. If you want to know why God chose me instead of someone else then this indeed is a kind a 'mystery.' A mystery with certain qualifiers of course 1) it wasn't based on anything I had done, 2) it was based on Gods plan and purpose to most fully display his glory 3) it was designed to show the freedom of God in that He has mercy on whom He chooses-he is not bound by anything but himself.

So with regard to Gods reasons and purposes the choice was not arbitrary in the slightest.

Somehow you are not getting this.

Explaining how God has a reason to be arbitrary is not good support for how he is actually not arbitrary. It is in fact, confirmation that he is arbitrary. It simply excuses it away.

[Storm Rider]

If mercy and grace is only give when someone 'comes unto Christ', then doesn't that imply that mercy and grace is not freely given but is actually merited by the person's choice/action to embrace the Savior?

Can something be freely given if there is a condition a person must meet or something they must do before they can receive it?

It depends on the context. Mercy and Grace are given to all freely by the mere fact of the resurrection. Do you think this is too little mercy or grace given to all humanity? There is no condition given for living for eternity. HOW one lives for an eternity is a matter of judgment and is contingent upon our own thoughts, choices, and actions.

[djholmess]

I was thinking more like this:

1. subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion: an arbitrary decision.

2. decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute.

3. having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical: an arbitrary government.

4. capricious; unreasonable; unsupported: an arbitrary demand for payment.

Any of them would do but I am thinking specifically of the main definition -- Item #1 or the last one.. Item #4.

If you want to go with the first one I'm largely ok with that- Gods choice is solely based on His will and purpose.

Given the defination of capricious below I think I have explained how #4 would not be suitable.

Characterized by or subject to whim; impulsive and unpredictable. See Synonyms at arbitrary.

Due to the close relationship between arbitrary and capricious, and the tyrannical undertones it carries with it we would never use the term to describe Gods choices. Like I've already said his choice to bestow mercy is gracious and loving, his choice to show wrath is just.

How the do you interpret the verses from Romans 9 you quoted?