rongo Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Bishop J.,That's interesting.I was wondering how the church would respond to the number of people who claim to be LDS compared to the number the Church has on record. Is there a huge difference in numbers?I'm not trying to incite any anti or critic agenda but the subject is interesting.I don't think the discrepancy would be as big in North America as it would in other parts of the world (like the Phillipines or Chile, where Elder Oaks and Elder Holland were dispatched for a couple of years to preside over massive changes because of mass activity/retention problems vs. "names on the records"). In Chile, there was census information on religious affiliation, and the number of people who considered themselves LDS was vastly lower than the number on the rolls of the Church ----- there appeared to be a large number of people who had no idea they were LDS, or at least didn't consider themselves to be LDS. I don't think North American inactives/very inactives are in this same boat ----- most know they are LDS to some extent. In my experience, about a third of North American LDS are "active" (based on church attendance, tithing, etc.), but the backbone of the Church is the STP (Same Ten People). This was a term from the brother in charge of a temple service assignment, who told us that the people who come to these are always the STP. A member of the stake presidency when we lived in Gilbert, who joined the Church with his sisters and mother, told us that his non-member father, after years of observing their church experience and service, announced to his family that he had finally figured out the essence of Mormonism. It is "the killing of the willing." I think the accolades we get through Pew Forum studies, reputation, "common knowledge" about Mormons, etc. stem mainly from the actions of the STP/"the willing," and not the 1/3 of the Church who are active at large. A very small minority of members naturally and intrinsically do missionary work, family history, cheerfully serve, find joy in serving in the Church, etc. ------ and the actions of these people rubs off on the other "active" members as far as reputation and stereotype.
Tacenda Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) It would be interesting to see how this demographic changes with age. Neither of my parents served missions, it was relatively rare for young women to go of my mother's generation. It was not so expected for those of my father's generation to go either, especially due to WWII and the Korean War. His brother who was 10 years older went, he did not (though he was an Eagle Scout). So I would think people my age have a higher percentage of being married in the temple if neither parent went than perhaps the younger generations do when it became highly expected of young men to go and women started going young more commonly as well.So true that people of our parent's generation didn't go on missions like they do now. I know Pres. Monson didn't go, I'm unaware the reason. I have a son that is 19 and still undecided to go on one or not. He has a full time job and a serious girlfriend, but won't say if he wants to go or not (no communication, buttoned lips). I think the dilemma he faces is the ward members and peers keep urging him to go and it makes him feel like he's letting so many down. Even though he has a strong testimony and spirit, he is somewhat shy & introverted. I would love him to go on a service mission somewhere, or get busy with school, or I'm game for him to go on an LDS mission. His older brother went and it was a good experience and changed him in good ways. But pity the boy that chooses not to go sometimes, it is harsh to say but you know that the LDS YW peer group usually want that RM. Edited July 11, 2012 by Tacenda
sweetpotatoh Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Following critic sites, I often read how members are leaving the lds church in droves. I suppose that this is not true. However, if one repeats it enough, some members may be taken in and decide to leave themselves. It is called the bandwagon effect in advertizing. It is good to read an evangelical's positive blog on the lds. Our friend Shawn should read it.Last year we had 3 families baptized into the ward. While none left. I don't see droves of people leaving. There are quite a few who never attend and haven't as long as I ave been in the ward.
sweetpotatoh Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 I don't think the discrepancy would be as big in North America as it would in other parts of the world (like the Phillipines or Chile, where Elder Oaks and Elder Holland were dispatched for a couple of years to preside over massive changes because of mass activity/retention problems vs. "names on the records"). In Chile, there was census information on religious affiliation, and the number of people who considered themselves LDS was vastly lower than the number on the rolls of the Church ----- there appeared to be a large number of people who had no idea they were LDS, or at least didn't consider themselves to be LDS. I don't think North American inactives/very inactives are in this same boat ----- most know they are LDS to some extent. In my experience, about a third of North American LDS are "active" (based on church attendance, tithing, etc.), but the backbone of the Church is the STP (Same Ten People). This was a term from the brother in charge of a temple service assignment, who told us that the people who come to these are always the STP. A member of the stake presidency when we lived in Gilbert, who joined the Church with his sisters and mother, told us that his non-member father, after years of observing their church experience and service, announced to his family that he had finally figured out the essence of Mormonism. It is "the killing of the willing." I think the accolades we get through Pew Forum studies, reputation, "common knowledge" about Mormons, etc. stem mainly from the actions of the STP/"the willing," and not the 1/3 of the Church who are active at large. A very small minority of members naturally and intrinsically do missionary work, family history, cheerfully serve, find joy in serving in the Church, etc. ------ and the actions of these people rubs off on the other "active" members as far as reputation and stereotype.A recent lesson in elders quorum illustrated your point about killing the willing. A story was told of a ward in Hawaii where an old man was called to be the bishop for the third time in the ward. When he spoke he asked the ward why he had to serve a third time as bishop when there are others who should be doing this. He then asked the ward why is it that the same people do most of the work in the ward. He also told them that many of them are missing out on blessings and growth by refusing to serve.
Craig Paxton Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 1. Mormons have bigger families CFR2. Mormons have lower divorce rates. CFR3. Mormons evangelize. So do Baptists 4. Mormons are orthodox (Ed: within their own faith tradition, that is). So Are Baptists5. Mormon leaders ask a lot of their members. So do Baptists6. Mormons are less selfish. Major CFR
rodheadlee Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 1. Mormons have bigger families CFR2. Mormons have lower divorce rates. CFR3. Mormons evangelize. So do Baptists 4. Mormons are orthodox (Ed: within their own faith tradition, that is). So Are Baptists5. Mormon leaders ask a lot of their members. So do Baptists6. Mormons are less selfish. Major CFR I guess you'll have to go to the author's webpage to CFR him, His name is David French and he is a Presbyterian. Nobody on this thread made those statements.http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frenchrevolution/2012/07/10/six-reasons-why-mormons-are-beating-baptists-in-church-growth/
rongo Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 David French is an evangelical Mormonophile (he and his sister Nancy French are the heads of Evangelicals For Mitt, and they are unabashed admirers of the good in Mormonism ----- and try to get other evangelicals not to be threatened by the prospect of a Mormon president).As far as Craig's CFRs, I would submit that Baptists' evangelizing is nothing like Mormons.' Just like neither's are like Jehovah's Witnesses'. I would also submit that what is asked of active Mormons is not similar to what is asked of active Baptists. While Baptists do a lot more than Lutherans or most Catholics, there is really no analogue to the "calling" system within the CoJCoLDS.
KevinG Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 1. Mormons have bigger families CFR2. Mormons have lower divorce rates. CFRCTL (click the link)
cinepro Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 I've just got to say that another Church that does a great job with the missionary work is the Jehovah's Witnesses. I drive through a certain part of town to get to work, and I see groups of them every single weekday morning talking to people at the bus stops and along the street."Every Member a Missionary" is great and all, but I really, really hope the Church never asks the regular members to start going tracting or to do street contacting.
KevinG Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 I've just got to say that another Church that does a great job with the missionary work is the Jehovah's Witnesses. I drive through a certain part of town to get to work, and I see groups of them every single weekday morning talking to people at the bus stops and along the street."Every Member a Missionary" is great and all, but I really, really hope the Church never asks the regular members to start going tracting or to do street contacting. Keep referring friends and family to the Elders or we will assign you to that next. Bwahahahahaha!
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