blooit Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 "Signaling a likely end to one of the longest, most expensive searches in the history of science, physicists said Wednesday that they had discovered a new subatomic particle that looks for all the world like the Higgs boson, a key to understanding why there is diversity and life in the universe."http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/05/science/cern-physicists-may-have-discovered-higgs-boson-particle.html?pagewanted=allIt exists, but doesn't behave as we expect. It appears to order the universe and defy time and space. It appears to surround objects with a "halo" and impact their motion and behavior. The more I read, the more I am intrigued.
ANACO Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 I don't believe so. But I had the same thought when I read that headline a few days back. D&C 131:7 7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;
Nathair/|\ Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 “If the laws of science are framed in their most perfect, their most symmetrical form, then life cannot exist at all. There’d be no mountains, rivers, valleys, no DNA, no people, nothing. But here we are. Our world is teeming with life and complexity, and yet that seems to be incompatible with perfection in our equations. By rights, we shouldn’t be here!” -Dr. Michio Kaku.Read the full text here: http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/132520#ixzz1ziTegVIJ --brought to you by mental_floss! Originally from a BBC presentation on the discovery.Yours under the ever-expanding oaks,Nathair /|\
Stargazer Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) No.Calling the Higgs boson the "God particle" inflates its importance beyond reasonableness. There is much in particle physics that is at least as important as the Higgs, and its discovery still leaves important questions in quantum physics unanswered. Higgs himself (there were actually 5 others who published papers independently about the need for this particle at about the same time, btw), who is an atheist, dislikes calling it the "God particle", though not for the reason one might think: Higgs fears that calling it that would offend religious people. Which is a curious concern for an atheist (though laudable), since some big-shot atheists seem to get a great deal of pleasure in offending religious people, though I digress.The discovery of the Higgs boson (which is not 100% confirmed, btw) is not the last answered question in physics, by any means. What it does do, if ultimately verified, is confirm the validity of the Standard Model, which would have the effect of allowing physicists to stop worrying if some other model might be correct. I do not pretend to understand most of this claptrap, but the Higgs question finally answers the question of "Why does matter have mass?" since the Standard Model doesn't actually allow elementary particles to have mass (and the matter we see around us are made up of those elementary particles), unless there were a "mechanism" allowing it. The mechanism is called the "Higgs mechanism" of course.Go ahead and read the Wikipedia article on the Higgs boson, if you want to have your head spinning by mid-article. Or earlier.In this article, one of my most favorite unintelligible paragraphs is:In the Standard Model, the Higgs field consists of two neutral and two charged component fields. Both of the charged components and one of the neutral fields are Goldstone bosons, which act as the longitudinal third-polarization components of the massive W+, W–, and Z bosons. The quantum of the remaining neutral component corresponds to (and is theoretically realized as) the massive Higgs boson. Since the Higgs field is a scalar field, the Higgs boson has no spin. The Higgs boson is also its own antiparticle and is CP-even, and has zero electric and color charge.The rest of article contains enlightening discussions of such things as "down quarks", " up anti-quarks" and "electroweak symmetry."Delicious stuff.And when I first read that the Higgs boson is its own anti-particle, my brain turned itself inside out. "Wha....?!?!" As far as I knew, if a particle and its anti-particle made contact, they would annihilate each other and turn their combined mass into pure energy, according to the famous Einstein energy equivalent equation E = mc2. So, if a particle were its own anti-particle, this would be the equivalent, it seems, of me being my own grandpa.Sometimes I am not sure if quantum physicists are dealing the real world, or some made-up fantasy world. At times like that, however, I am reminded of this video:[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu57B1v0SzIAt the end of this version of the animated lecture, there is supposedly a live example of the double slit experiment, but it isn't. What it is, is an actual visual pattern of a rocket launch, where, when the rocket passes the sound barrier, it causes RIPPLES in the sky! You gotta see it. It's very cool. Edited July 5, 2012 by Stargazer 1
Robert F. Smith Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Calling the Higgs boson the "God particle" inflates its importance beyond reasonableness. There is much in particle physics that is at least as important as the Higgs, and its discovery still leaves important questions in quantum physics unanswered. Higgs himself (there were actually 5 others who published papers independently about the need for this particle at about the same time, btw), who is an atheist, dislikes calling it the "God particle", though not for the reason one might think: Higgs fears that calling it that would offend religious people. Which is a curious concern for an atheist (though laudable), since some big-shot atheists seem to get a great deal of pleasure in offending religious people, though I digress.The discovery of the Higgs boson (which is not 100% confirmed, btw) is not the last answered question in physics, by any means. What it does do, if ultimately verified, is confirm the validity of the Standard Model, which would have the effect of allowing physicists to stop worrying if some other model might be correct. I do not pretend to understand most of this claptrap, but the Higgs question finally answers the question of "Why does matter have mass?" since the Standard Model doesn't actually allow elementary particles to have mass (and the matter we see around us are made up of those elementary particles), unless there were a "mechanism" allowing it. The mechanism is called the "Higgs mechanism" of course.Go ahead and read the Wikipedia article on the Higgs boson, if you want to have your head spinning by mid-article. Or earlier.Has anyone deigned to explain how the Higgs field might relate to dark energy and dark matter?
Stargazer Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Has anyone deigned to explain how the Higgs field might relate to dark energy and dark matter?Haven't heard a word of it, if they have. Of course, I am not necessarily omniscient in this field. Or any other, I hasten to add.
Stargazer Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Let's get even crazier. Delayed choice quantum eraser. Prerequisite for viewing is the Double Slit Experiment above. Read this: http://www.bottomlay...-scully-web.htm to better understand the above.The whole thing is just weird on a completely insane level. In the double slit experiment, it isn't the detector that collapses the wave function (and hence produces the clump result instead of the interference pattern), it is the fact that it is known (by the human observer) which slit the electron passed through. Now, you want to try to explain how the electron knows that it is being observed??? How could a particle of matter be aware of anything? How? How?Are you listening yet? Have you given this some thought?Of course, some atheist is going to come and say that the electron doesn't know jack, because it is not aware. Sorry! Bzzzt! Incorrect! The electron is aware that it is being observed. What is awareness? Crap, I don't know. But I do know that I am aware. Connect the dots.Next, let's try to explain quantum entanglement. And goooood luck with that. Pack a lunch because you'll be working on it all day.My take on quantum intanglement is that it explains how our spirit can be in touch with God. Our actual selves (whatever that self actually is) is NOT here in the universe. It is outside it, but is quantumly entangled with our bodies somehow. Well, that's just my theory. It's untestable, but it might explain some things. But not others.Surreal. But REAL! Edited July 5, 2012 by Stargazer
CV75 Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 "Signaling a likely end to one of the longest, most expensive searches in the history of science, physicists said Wednesday that they had discovered a new subatomic particle that looks for all the world like the Higgs boson, a key to understanding why there is diversity and life in the universe."http://www.nytimes.c...?pagewanted=allIt exists, but doesn't behave as we expect. It appears to order the universe and defy time and space. It appears to surround objects with a "halo" and impact their motion and behavior. The more I read, the more I am intrigued.I think the matter Joseph Smith spoke of is what allows mankind to try to figure out what gives the Higgs bosom the properties that gives other particles mass, as well as possibly what it actually is that gives other particles that which gives other particles mass.
Nofear Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 "Could the god particle be the highly refined matter that Joseph Smith described?"No chance at all, none -- for multiple reasons. Perhaps the easiest to see is that spirit matter, what little we understand of it, is capable of assembling complex forms (e.g. a body with two eyes, ten fingers and ten toes). The Higgs Boson cannot assemble complex structures.
thesometimesaint Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/05/scientists-finally-measure-cosmic-dark-matter/ 1
Cobalt-70 Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Has anyone deigned to explain how the Higgs field might relate to dark energy and dark matter?Dark matter and dark energy are not explainable by the Higgs field. Higgs is part of the "Standard Model" which is as far as we know well understood by physicists. But dark matter and dark energy require physics beyond the Standard Model. It is possible, however, that dark matter relates to "supersymmetry," which might be discovered in the Large Hadron Collider in a few years. Nobody really has a clue about what dark energy is. We measure it, but nobody has proposed a complete theory to explain it yet. 1
Cobalt-70 Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 It exists, but doesn't behave as we expect. It appears to order the universe and defy time and space. It appears to surround objects with a "halo" and impact their motion and behavior. The more I read, the more I am intrigued.As far as we can measure so far, the Higgs field/particle behaves the way physicists expect, and it does not defy time and space. It is just a particle like any other, with particular properties that obey mathematical rules. It is not a good candidate for explaining Mormon "spirit matter," because it does not form complicated structures that could hold information.There is a way that you can understand Smith's comments in a way that makes sense under modern physics. You can say that "intelligence" is pure information, and "spirit matter" is anything which embodies "intelligence." According to physics, information can never be destroyed, but can only increase. You can embody information in various kinds of matter, or even in pure energy such as light, but it always has to be embodied in something. You could think of our "soul" as the thing that makes us unique, or the information that "encodes" us. That information is unique and is immortal. Information is never destroyed, even upon death, but because information scatters and becomes mixed with the rest of the universe, we know of no feasible way to reconstruct the information that encodes a human being after that human is destroyed. Maybe you could imagine that god does have that technology. Or perhaps he has a way of storing that unique, immortal information that defines us within himself or in some other medium. 1
thesometimesaint Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 cobalt-70:While I believe God knows all about technology. I don't believe he necessarily uses it.
Nofear Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 While I believe God knows all about technology. I don't believe he necessarily uses it.Barring an assertion of magic (in the truest sense), your reply is a quibble of semantics. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Higgs Boson walks into a Catholic church.Priest yells at him to "get out".Higgs replies: "don't you want to have Mass?"(my best friend told me that one) Edited July 6, 2012 by Robert F. Smith 1
Kerry A. Shirts Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 I don't believe so. But I had the same thought when I read that headline a few days back. D&C 131:77 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;Yes but it's not matter all the way down however........
Kerry A. Shirts Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Higgs Boson walks into a Catholic church.Priest yells at him to "get out".Higgs replies: "don't you want to have Mass?"(my best friend told me that one) :rofl:
Stargazer Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 cobalt-70:While I believe God knows all about technology. I don't believe he necessarily uses it.Are you serious? It's clear He uses it all the time! The earth wasn't created by a pass of His hand, after all. Or do you think it was all magicked into existence?I will grant you that it is certainly within His capabilities, to magick things into existence (we don't believe in (Creatio ex nihilo" do we?), but it doesn't seem that this is how He operates as a general rule.
Stargazer Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Higgs Boson walks into a Catholic church.Priest yells at him to "get out".Higgs replies: "don't you want to have Mass?"(my best friend told me that one)One good science joke deserves another:A couple of bacteria walk into a bar. The bartender says: "Get out, we don't serve bacteria in this bar!"The first bacterium replies: "But we work here! We're staph!"=============And my favorite:Schroedinger's Cat walks into a bar......and doesn't.
Stargazer Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Yes but it's not matter all the way down however........And not turtles, after all?
Buzzard Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 When a question similar to the one above was posed to Elder Matthew Cowley of the Council of the Twelve, his answer was, “I don’t know and you can quote me.”Elder Cowley was a very smart man, IMHO. 2
Calm Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Are you serious? It's clear He uses it all the time! The earth wasn't created by a pass of His hand, after all. Or do you think it was all magicked into existence?I will grant you that it is certainly within His capabilities, to magick things into existence (we don't believe in (Creatio ex nihilo" do we?), but it doesn't seem that this is how He operates as a general rule.I think it depends on how you define technology.Creation, etc, may take place for the same reason that things get done on the Church when our leaders want something done, the universe and all that is in it listens to His voice and obeys.
Calm Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 And not turtles, after all? First four elephants, don't forget....
Stargazer Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 I think it depends on how you define technology.Creation, etc, may take place for the same reason that things get done on the Church when our leaders want something done, the universe and all that is in it listens to His voice and obeys.If you follow Cleon Skousen, God's "science" is to command the elements, and they obey. He gives them mass (via the Higgs boson evidently) and commands them to obey the law of gravitation. The celestial spheres are held in place by the laws of physics, but it is the laws of physics that God created in the first place.Hence He has no need to use "magick".I guess you are right when you say it depends upon how you define technology.
Stargazer Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 First four elephants, don't forget....No, no, no. The four elephants stand on the turtle. It's the disc of the earth (flat earth, remember?) that rests on the back of the elephants.This is from Terry Pratchett's DiscWorld series. And the turtle swims through space, and stands on nothing."Turtles all the way down" was the response of the elderly British lady to Bertrand Russell's challenge of what the turtle supporting the disc of the earth stood on, in Stephen Hawking's recounting of the tale (but lots of other astronomers and physicists are quoted as having been the scientist in the story).
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