CASteinman Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 I'm out of rep points but your post certainly deserves a few. Thank you.I've got it covered...
selek1 Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) How about you wait until your people are herded in ghettos in country after country, 6 million of your number are systematically slaughtered, and literally millions around the world believe you are the cause of all the evil in the world, before you start comparing your "plight" to the Jewish nation?Just a thought.You are not persecuted.Thank you for conceding that-in your world- persecution , prejudice, and bigotry are defined not be actions, but by scale.And for the record, I have Jewish, Native American, and African-American ancestors within two generations. I am a Mormon by choice- and even I have been on the receiving end of abuse for that choice,If you REALLY want to go down that route, I can match you point by point on any level you care to name. Ultimately though, you've admitted that my point was correct- you have no problems with bigotry, with persecution, or with prejudice, in general.You just have a your own preferred list of "acceptable" targets. Edited June 12, 2012 by selek1 1
Pahoran Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 How about you wait until your people are herded in ghettos in country after country, 6 million of your number are systematically slaughtered, and literally millions around the world believe you are the cause of all the evil in the world, before you start comparing your "plight" to the Jewish nation?Just a thought.You are not persecuted.So, in your mind, persecution is one state of a binary set, and anything less than a rerun of the Shoah does not rise to the level of persecution?I see.Make no mistake: I don't have a (heh heh) "persecution complex" (neither do any other Latter-day Saints I know) so I don't imagine that our situation is presently anything like what happened to Jews in the past.For that matter, the situation of most Jews (certainly in America) is not presently anything like what happened to Latter-day Saints in the past.The present, you see, is not like the past.But there are degrees of persecution. In the movie Schindler's List, there is a brief vignette where two Sturmabteilung (storm troopers) are shown, having bailed up an Orthodox Jew. They're not beating him, shooting him or loading him onto a cattle cart; they're just clipping his earlocks with a pair of scissors.IOW, they're making fun of his religious distinctiveness in much the same way as their ideological successors make fun of "magic underwear."You see, it is only possible to justify the rounding up and extermination of a group of people after the rest have convinced themselves that the target group is somehow less human. And lesser degrees of persecution are important steps down that road.Regards,Pahoran 1
CASteinman Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Edit: Unnecessary provocation on my part. My apologies.I also apologize for offense I caused.
Storm Rider Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Just for reference, can someone let me know if Mormons are more persecuted than Catholics, Scientologists, JW's, Jews, and Muslims?Strange question; should persecution then only be identified when it is more than another and then left to the persecutors if they just don't do as bad a job as against another group? Really odd way of looking at society and life in general.Does it matter who is most persecuted and who is least persecuted? In knowing this does it change what can be identified as persecution? Edited June 12, 2012 by Storm Rider 2
Scott Lloyd Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) It is true that these days we don't hear of Mormon farmhouses being burned, Latter-day Saints being forcibly displaced from their homes, Mormon villages being massacred or prophets and apostles being murdered.What persecution occurs today takes far more subtle, under-the-radar forms, such as sophistry; distortion of belief, doctrine, practice and history; slanting and spin; ill-informed defamation; and disparagement and desecration of things we hold sacred.While such forms are not violent or as hostile as the former, they are nevertheless ominous in that they could quickly evolve into the former under certain circumstances. Therefore, they bear vigilance and are to be countered with sound reason to the extent that such defense is possible or appropriate.To draw a parallel, anti-Semitism did not really become unfashionable until good people, Jewish and non-Jewish, began to speak out against it.Apparently, I need to clarify the above comment for BoMluvr and others with the "you-don't-have-it-so-bad" attitude.You see, any oppression, bigotry, hate against any decent group is to be deplored, condemned and resisted, regardless of degree of severity in comparison to what has been suffered by other groups.The point I was making with the above example is that Jews and other groups have made progress in changing societal attitudes by standing up against bigotry, oppression and defamation. We would do well to follow their example as appropriate.So it will not do to claim that Mormons have no right to object merely because they have not (yet) suffered as much as Jews have. We all need to do what we can to keep matters from getting that bad.Finally, I have observed that those most inclined to cry "persecution complex" are generally the ones who are the most intolerant and antagonistic. Do you really want to align yourselves with that lot? Edited June 12, 2012 by Scott Lloyd 1
rodheadlee Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 How about you wait until your people are herded in ghettos in country after country, 6 million of your number are systematically slaughtered, and literally millions around the world believe you are the cause of all the evil in the world, before you start comparing your "plight" to the Jewish nation?Just a thought.You are not persecuted.There is still plenty of time left for that.
mrmandias Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Just for reference, can someone let me know if Mormons are more persecuted than Catholics, Scientologists, JW's, Jews, and Muslims?What's the relevance? Persecution is not a relative measure.My own view is that some Mormons are too ready to see persecution, but that persecution does exist and certainly did historically. 1
Nemesis Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 How about you wait until your people are herded in ghettos in country after country, 6 million of your number are systematically slaughtered, and literally millions around the world believe you are the cause of all the evil in the world, before you start comparing your "plight" to the Jewish nation?Just a thought.You are not persecuted.Godwins law violation. Thread closed.
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