followerofemmanuel Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Take everything you see on the TV, Read on the internets, newspapers, magazines with a large grain of salt.Good word!!
Mustard Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 I wonder if anyone contacted History Channel with a complaint. Just cause a guy thinks he knows the facts, you gotta be sure to have facts. On another episode the guy said that Abraham Lincoln slept with men - making one think intamitely how he said it. But the just explained very plainly that he just slept in the same bed and that was it. How he delivered it is to shock and awe people but it is not right, although "true". ... 1
alapaki Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 How accurate is this?The Mountain Meadows massacre was a series of attacks on the Baker–Fancher emigrant wagon train, at Mountain Meadows in southern Utah. The attacks culminated on September 11, 1857 with the mass slaughter of the emigrant party by the Iron County district of the Utah Territorial Militia and some local Native Americans.The wagon train—composed almost entirely of families from Arkansas—was bound for California on a route that passed through the Utah Territory during a turbulent period later known as the Utah War. After arriving in Salt Lake City, the Baker–Fancher party made their way south, eventually stopping to rest at Mountain Meadows. While the emigrants were camped in the meadow, nearby militia leaders including Isaac C. Haight and John D. Lee made plans to attack the wagon train. Intending to give the appearance of Native American aggression, their plan was to arm some Southern Paiute Native Americans and persuade them to join with a larger party of militiamen—disguised as Native Americans—in an attack.During the initial assault on the wagon train, the emigrants fought back and a five-day siege ensued. Eventually fear spread among the militia's leaders that some emigrants had caught sight of white men, and had probably discovered who their attackers really were. This resulted in an order by militia commander William H. Dame for the emigrants' annihilation. Running low on water and provisions, the emigrants allowed a party of militiamen to enter their camp, who assured them of their safety and escorted them out of their hasty fortification. After walking a distance from the camp, the militiamen, with the help of auxiliary forces hiding nearby, attacked the emigrants. Intending to leave no witnesses of complicity by Mormons (members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or LDS Church) in the attacks, and to prevent reprisals that would further complicate the Utah War, the perpetrators killed all the adults and older children (totaling about 120 men, women, and children). Seventeen children, all younger than seven, were spared.Following the massacre the perpetrators hastily buried the victims, leaving their bodies vulnerable to wild animals and the climate. Local families took in the surviving children, and many of the victims' possessions were auctioned off. Investigations, temporarily interrupted by the American Civil War, resulted in nine indictments during 1874. Of the men indicted, only John D. Lee was tried in a court of law. After two trials in the Utah Territory, Lee was convicted by a jury and executed. Today historians attribute the massacre to a combination of factors including both war hysteria and strident Mormon teachings. Scholars still debate whether senior Mormon leadership, including Brigham Young, directly instigated the massacre or if responsibility lies with the local leaders of southern Utah.You need to give your source when you cut & paste.
blooit Posted April 13, 2012 Author Posted April 13, 2012 I'll bite. This reads quite accurately to me.
rodheadlee Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Why does the link for Strident Mormon Teachings lead to the MMM wiki article? Edited April 13, 2012 by rodheadlee
selek1 Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 Why does the link for Strident Mormon Teachings lead to the MMM wiki article?That link is particularly egregious.It reads like an advertisement for the Will Bagley fan club and contains enough distortions and inflammatory innuendo to make the Presidential campaign look positively genteel.
mfbukowski Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) How accurate is this?#11 Mormons aren't perfectThere is a reason certain priesthood leaders visit prisons. We have members, or should I say "former members", in most cases, because if the crimes are serious enough, they are excommunicated, in prisons. Edited April 13, 2012 by mfbukowski
Calm Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) How accurate is this? Something can be precisely accurate, yet still mislead by not providing enough information for the purpose of answering the question being asked. When asked "how accurate is this?", I think it is important to ask before answering "for what purpose is this information to be used". I would never send someone interested in learning about the MMM simply to the wiki article, way too much happened to be described sufficiently in just a few paragraphs. However, if someone was just wondering what "MMM" stood for or what everyone was talking about, but not interested in the events themselves, then the wiki article would be sufficient, imo, though I would add 'this is one limited view of a complex situation, you need to read some other materials if you want to information we actually have as well as the various interpretations imposed upon that information exist. Edited April 14, 2012 by calmoriah
TJayT Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 Something can be precisely accurate, yet still mislead by not providing enough information for the purpose of answering the question being asked. When asked "how accurate is this?", I think it is important to ask before answering "for what purpose is this information to be used". I would never send someone interested in learning about the MMM simply to the wiki article, way too much happened to be described sufficiently in just a few paragraphs. However, if someone was just wondering what "MMM" stood for or what everyone was talking about, but not interested in the events themselves, then the wiki article would be sufficient, imo, though I would add 'this is one limited view of a complex situation, you need to read some other materials if you want to information we actually have as well as the various interpretations imposed upon that information exist.Couldn't agree with you more. That said I found the article to be a fairly balanced short description of events as I understand them.
TheSkepticChristian Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 I watched the episode on the History channel last night. Wow was it bad. They took semi-truths and twisted them almost beyond recognition. The biggest one was probably their failure to recognize the difference between the church, the members, and apostates. On this show they were all the same.Even worse for me are the uneducated members who watch it, and swallow it whole. Just today I had a member tell me, "Every church has it's skeletons. Quit complaining." How does anyone swallow this bunk?Very disappointing, I thought the history channel was supposed to be educational.
TheSkepticChristian Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 Well the History Channel is losing it's reputation
TheSkepticChristian Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 I hope they make a more fair episode in the future, I hope they don't spread anti-Mormon propaganda.
abdullah786 Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 Can some people here explain to me what the definitive comparative differences in mormonism compared to any other major/biblical religion? Like what is the fundamental beliefs of this religion that makes it separate from others? I used to be mormon but I converted to Islam several years ago and I'm doing a lot of comparative studies.For example in modern "Christianity" the biggest difference compared to Islam is that Jesus, peace be upon him, is taken as the literal son of God whereas Islam says he is a prophet and the messiah. Catholics see God as the trinity (which is really confusing) seeing Jesus, peace be unto him as God and same as Gabriel (Holy Spirit).What is mormonism fundamentally? I have a book of mormon (with my name on it :]) and references are highly welcome.Thanks,Abdullah (translation: abdu = slave/servant, lah = God. grammar = slave to God)
Calm Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 The best way to learn quickly and accurately what we believe is to read the Gospel Principles manual, it shouldn't take very long.http://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles?lang=eng
spartacus Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 The biggest thing that disappointed me about the History Channel's program was they didn't mention that the First Vision were aliens from outer space coming back to earth, as they've done with the Egyptians, Incans, and many other ancient peoples. Or at least that's what I've learned from the History Channel's "history" of ancient peoples.... Uhhhh.... actually.... technically Joseph Smith taught that Heavenly Father and Jesus were physical beings that lived on a space object that was not this earth - aka technically they were "extraterrestrials".(Ha! that's kind of funny because they are part of the Celestial Kingdom which is above or "extra" the Terrestrial Kingdom! HA! ) I give permission to anyone to use that as a funny, but only in a good spirit and I would like a "i heard a guy say" or "an online guy named spartacus said" props if possible.
spartacus Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 (since there's weird restrictions on message sending (not a complaint, just an observation))TJayT !!! Is that you?!!!!It's me! And, if you understand that, then that means you are you! What's up?! I've been here only just recently myself, this week. Kinda nice here so far.Hope you are welland you (but really how many TJayT's can there be in the world?)May God bless you in Jesus the Christ's Name, Amenspartacus
volgadon Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 Uhhhh.... actually.... technically Joseph Smith taught that Heavenly Father and Jesus were physical beings that lived on a space object that was not this earth - aka technically they were "extraterrestrials".There are equally uncharitable caricaturish terms for the Trinity, but I doubt you'll see the History Channel use any of them.
why me Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) Couldn't agree with you more. That said I found the article to be a fairly balanced short description of events as I understand them.However something was missing from the interpretation of the facts. Just 13 years before two leaders of the mormon church were murdered while in prison. And before that mormons experienced intense persecution from the mobs burning their homes, printing presses and killing them. I don't think that one can distance MMM from the persecution of yesteryears. Not to mention the deaths along the way to Utah...memories of dead relatives and injustice were very much a part of the mentality of fear.Not to mention the threats coming from california about exterminating the mormons. (I believe that I am correct about this) Edited April 16, 2012 by why me
why me Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 Can some people here explain to me what the definitive comparative differences in mormonism compared to any other major/biblical religion? Like what is the fundamental beliefs of this religion that makes it separate from others? I used to be mormon but I converted to Islam several years ago and I'm doing a lot of comparative studies.For example in modern "Christianity" the biggest difference compared to Islam is that Jesus, peace be upon him, is taken as the literal son of God whereas Islam says he is a prophet and the messiah. Catholics see God as the trinity (which is really confusing) seeing Jesus, peace be unto him as God and same as Gabriel (Holy Spirit).What is mormonism fundamentally? I have a book of mormon (with my name on it :]) and references are highly welcome.Thanks,Abdullah (translation: abdu = slave/servant, lah = God. grammar = slave to God)Start a new thread about this. Better that way so more people see it. Now it is just hidden in a post about a history channel documentary.
spartacus Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 There are equally uncharitable caricaturish terms for the Trinity, but I doubt you'll see the History Channel use any of them.Too true. Too true.
Pahoran Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Uhhhh.... actually.... technically Joseph Smith taught that Heavenly Father and Jesus were physical beings that lived on a space object that was not this earth - aka technically they were "extraterrestrials".There are equally uncharitable caricaturish terms for the Trinity, but I doubt you'll see the History Channel use any of them.Too true. Too true.So you're admitting that when you presumed to tell us what Joseph "technically" taught, you were indulging in an uncharitable caricature.Thank you for that unaccustomed moment of candour.I renew to you my recommendation that you try to avoid arrogating to yourself the role of telling us(!!) what our(!!!) religion teaches.If you are unable to practice such a degree of restraint, then please understand that we shall continue to regard such presumptuous statements as being without validity in any discussion here, and essentially empty of meaning.Regards,Pahoran
Neophyte Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 Did anyone see the program on the History channel H2 "10 things you don't know about Mormons"?Is this type of program's half truths something that needs to be addressed by groups like "Mormon Voices"?
Calm Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/57351-10-things-you-dont-know-about-mormons/It might not be a bad idea for it to do so. Why don't you write them and suggest it? Edited April 18, 2012 by calmoriah
DarkScythe Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 this is why i don't watch much T.V. anymore. TOO much B.S.
Buzzard Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 I was kind of bummed out to see this. The History Channel used to be one of my favorites, but is now just another reality TV channel, with the "documentaries" like this thrown in from time to time.
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