Byu Easter Conference, 2012--Reclaiming The Cross

[Mike Reed]

Sister Strathearn, an associate professor of ancient scripture at BYU, focussed her presentation on the Crucifixion of Christ, specifically on reclamation of the cross.She shared four reasons why the cross holds significance with the Resurrection.

1. The events on the cross are an integral part of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

2. The scriptural metaphor that all can be "lifted up" because Christ was lifted up on the cross is a symbol of God's great love for His children.

3. In the New Testament the invitation "to take up your cross" was the symbol of discipleship.

4. The signs of the Crucifixion were so important for Christ that they are forever engraved upon His body

link

"Reclaim," implying that it had previously been claimed in the Church? Very good. Did anyone here see or listen to this session? Is a recording of it available online somewhere?

[mfbukowski]

I had an interesting visit to the Idaho Falls temple last week- and it is very clear that there are cross motifs there in most of the decorations. What is interesting is that the cross motif is quite clear here, especially in this slide show - see especially slides number 13, 14, 23, and 30

http://www.ldschurch...s/construction/

Idaho Falls was built I think just before the LA temple in which a similar motif was altered to eliminate the cross, turning it into a more clear square motif with no cross members meeting in the center- obscuring the "cross" motif.

http://www.ldschurch...oad.php?id=2698

So indeed it appears that the cross motif, if it is to become again an LDS symbol indeed needs to be "reclaimed"

Edited April 18, 2012 by mfbukowski

[Pahoran]

I had an interesting visit to the Idaho Falls temple last week- and it is very clear that there are cross motifs there in most of the decorations. What is interesting is that the cross motif is quite clear here, especially in this slide show - see especially slides number 13, 14, 23, and 30

http://www.ldschurch...s/construction/

Idaho Falls was built I think just before the LA temple in which a similar motif was altered to eliminate the cross, turning it into a more clear square motif with no cross members meeting in the center- obscuring the "cross" motif.

http://www.ldschurch...oad.php?id=2698

So indeed it appears that the cross motif, if it is to become again an LDS symbol indeed needs to be "reclaimed"

I don't agree. It seems obvious to me that the geometric patterns on both temples are about equally cruciform.

The Hamilton New Zealand Temple has similar exterior decorations; some that have the cross-hatching unadorned, and some that have squares overlaying the middle of the crosses. I've seen similar cruciform designs elsewhere. This temple was built under the close direction of President David O. McKay. I mention this because President McKay is the bête noire of the wannabe ark-steadiers on this subject, (which of course merely serves to raise him in my estimation) but he seems to have been perfectly comfortable with various kinds of cruciform decoration on the temples he most closely supervised.

Regards,

Pahoran

Edited April 19, 2012 by Pahoran

[zerinus]

"Reclaim," implying that it had previously been claimed in the Church? Very good. Did anyone here see or listen to this session? Is a recording of it available online somewhere?

That is not the necessary definition of "reclaim". Assuming that the quote is genuine, it could mean reclaiming from Apostate Christendom. Here are the main definitions of "reclaim" according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

1.

a : to recall from wrong or improper conduct : reform

b : tame, subdue

2.

a : to rescue from an undesirable state; also : to restore to a previous natural state <reclaim mining sites>

b : to make available for human use by changing natural conditions <reclaim swampland>

3.

a : to obtain from a waste product or by-product : recover <reclaimed plastic>

4.

a : to demand or obtain the return of

b : to regain possession of

Source

And here are some synonyms according to Thesaurus.com:

reclaim

Part of Speech: verb

Definition: bring into usable condition

Synonyms: convert, recondition, recover, recover, recycle, redeem, regenerate, remodel, rescue, restore, salvage

reclaim

Part of Speech: verb

Definition: reform

Synonyms: improve, mend, rehabilitate

reclaim

Part of Speech: verb

Definition: restore

Synonyms: domesticate, recall, recover, reform, refurbish, regenerate, repair, resolve, restitute, salvage, save, tame, train

Source

Edited April 18, 2012 by zerinus

[mfbukowski]

I mention this because President McKay is the bête noire of the wannabe cross-worshippers, ....

"Cross-worshippers"?

Just a tad over the top there dude!

[Log]

Pahoran is never over the top - he consistently beheads his victims and never scalps them.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Log

[mfbukowski]

Pahoran is never over the top - he consistently beheads his victims and never scalps them.

That would be "a tad OFF the top", not "over the top".

[Mike Reed]

Fortunately, Mormonism of the 21s century is gradually moving moving in a direction away from Pahoran's type of world view--"which of course merely serves to raise [the Church] in my estimation."

Edited April 18, 2012 by Mike Reed

[Pahoran]

Fortunately, Mormonism of the 21s century is gradually moving moving in a direction away from Pahoran's type of world view--"which of course merely serves to raise [the Church] in my estimation."

Ah. A gratuitous back-hander.

How unexpected. Or something.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Nemesis]

Either knock of the personal attacks or we will shut the thread down.

Nemesis

[Bernard Gui]

Look like plus signs to me.

There is a similar pattern in the overhead lights in our stake center chapel.

Why is it such a big deal? I don't understand why not having a cross on our

buildings somehow diminishes our commitment to Christ.

Bernard

[saemo]

"Cross-worshippers"?

Just a tad over the top there dude!

Ironic is what it is.

Cross worshipper is an insult, used by the more extreme Islamic Christian-haters. The sort who want to wipe Christianity off the map. This would of course include Mormonism.

[mfbukowski]

Ironic is what it is.

Cross worshipper is an insult, used by the more extreme Islamic Christian-haters. The sort who want to wipe Christianity off the map. This would of course include Mormonism.

Now there is a Christian, conciliatory attitude for you. At least you are dependably inflammatory. Useful skill to have when you want to start an insurrection or a religious war. You never know when you are going to need one of those.

That "turn the other cheek" stuff is just so.... old fashioned.

Edited April 19, 2012 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

Look like plus signs to me.

There is a similar pattern in the overhead lights in our stake center chapel.

Why is it such a big deal? I don't understand why not having a cross on our

buildings somehow diminishes our commitment to Christ.

Bernard

Does wearing a suit and tie indicate you are a committed member? Why do missionaries have dress standards? Certain symbols and outward signs have cultural meanings which are important.

I personally don't much care if we "re-adopt" the cross. I am kind of in favor of it merely because it does indicate "christianity" to most people and lack of a cross I think is one of the reasons we are not regarded by many as "Christian". I think it is about as important as wearing a tie or not wearing a tie to church. I prefer a tie, thank you very much.

But to be perfectly honest if the word "Christian" has become so corrupted as to not include us- I don't care. We are unique in our understanding of these things and I would not compromise ONE thing of substance to be included in a "club" that really doesn't want me to join.

I just don't think there is a good reason for us to NOT use crosses- I have never seen an argument against crosses which make sense to me, but it really doesn't matter much to me. If someone has a good reason we should NOT use crosses, I'd like to see it. I have seen all the usual ones.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Sister Strathearn, an associate professor of ancient scripture at BYU, focussed her presentation on the Crucifixion of Christ, specifically on reclamation of the cross.She shared four reasons why the cross holds significance with the Resurrection.

1. The events on the cross are an integral part of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

2. The scriptural metaphor that all can be "lifted up" because Christ was lifted up on the cross is a symbol of God's great love for His children.

3. In the New Testament the invitation "to take up your cross" was the symbol of discipleship.

4. The signs of the Crucifixion were so important for Christ that they are forever engraved upon His body

link

"Reclaim," implying that it had previously been claimed in the Church? Very good. Did anyone here see or listen to this session? Is a recording of it available online somewhere?

I never rejected it, but as a people we have left it behind. Although all out lit tells us the atonment took place at both places. So i will join my voice with her's.

[Pahoran]

Ironic is what it is.

Cross worshipper is an insult, used by the more extreme Islamic Christian-haters. The sort who want to wipe Christianity off the map. This would of course include Mormonism.

I regret that you have no good-faith basis on which to claim to believe what you assert.

If you know one percent as much as you claim to know about the Church of Jesus Christ, then you know perfectly well that it is a Christian institution and has been throughout its history.

If you know one percent as much as you claim to know about the Church of Jesus Christ, then you know perfectly well that it has no desire "to wipe Christianity off the map" but is vigorously engaged in spreading Christianity through its missionary efforts.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Log]

Pahoran,

That's not what she meant. She meant certain radical Islamists use "cross-worshipper" as a slur against all Christians, and these radical Islamists, who use that slur, wish to annihilate Christianity. Christianity, she notes, includes Mormonism.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Log

[Calm]

Christianity, she notes, includes Mormonism.

I read it that way too, though noted it was a bit confusing.

[Pahoran]

Pahoran,

That's not what she meant. She meant certain radical Islamists use "cross-worshipper" as a slur against all Christians, and these radical Islamists, who use that slur, wish to annihilate Christianity. Christianity, she notes, includes Mormonism.

Okay, you may be right. It's ambiguous as written; however, she has elsewhere emphatically insisted that "Mormonism" is not "Christian," although she reluctantly admits that it's possible for a person to be a Christian despite being a Mormon. It's one of the pervasive themes of her posting history, and I read her post in that context.

However, I agree that it is possible to interpret her post as you have.

Regards,

Pahoran

[mfbukowski]

Pahoran,

That's not what she meant. She meant certain radical Islamists use "cross-worshipper" as a slur against all Christians, and these radical Islamists, who use that slur, wish to annihilate Christianity. Christianity, she notes, includes Mormonism.

I never read it that way- but I suppose you could get that interpretation. I saw it the same way Pahoran did.

Well- if it was meant the other way then, I apologize. But dang- that was poorly written if it was meant innocently.

Perhaps it was meant to be ambiguous?

[Log]

Well, here's the other ambiguity that I read into it - Saemo is not necessarily saying she considers Mormonism to be part of Christianity - only that the Islamic Jihadists would so consider us.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Log

[Bernard Gui]

Well, here's the other ambiguity that I read into it - Saemo is not necessarily saying she considers Mormonism to be part of Christianity - only that the Islamic Jihadists would so consider us.

Best not to put crosses on our churches, then...

Bernard

[mfbukowski]

Well, here's the other ambiguity that I read into it - Saemo is not necessarily saying she considers Mormonism to be part of Christianity - only that the Islamic Jihadists would so consider us.

Yeah that old ambiguity problem will get you every time.

[saemo]

Well, here's the other ambiguity that I read into it - Saemo is not necessarily saying she considers Mormonism to be part of Christianity - only that the Islamic Jihadists would so consider us.

Thanks yes, that is what I said.

[mfbukowski]

Thanks yes, that is what I said.

Yay!

The guessing game is over!