New Book Claims Mitt Romney Pressured Single Mom To Give Up Her Baby

[noel00]

CFR Who has shown 'The Gingrich video is an inaccurate, ideologically-laden, lethally biased piece of trash. And it's been widely recognized as such."

But I suppose "some black folk (Obama's ancestors) came through the flood to represent Satan and white folk (Romney's ancesters) came through the flood to represent the Saviour, Jesus Christ". source - John Taylor.

This issue has always intrigue me. If some LDS believe in a local flood, why would one of Noah's sons have to marry someone of the line of Cain.

Dan Dan Dan, must be such an intellectual burdon for you to believe some of this nonsense.

Off-topic baiting = Noel has left the building.

[rpn]

Given that she was divorced and pregnant, the church disciplinary council would likely have taken up the issue, without any consideration of the adoption or not. The handbook discourages divorced women from getting pregnant through in vitro, presumably because of concern for a child without two parents, but also because of the appearance of evil. Personally I think that he should have said that he can't respond to her statements because he promised to keep confidential their conversations. And if Romney's argument is that he didn't have authority, that is disingenous at best. I wish he'd explained the doctrine and background of the church's position, rather than the response he is quoted as having made. The demand that Romney was the only one who could give her a blessing does show at least spiritual immaturity.

There is also a story floating out there that he threatened a woman who was getting an abortion, with church discipline, and her father threw him out of the hospital room. I doubt his competitors who argue they are prolife can give any such personal examples of defending the unborn.

[Pahoran]

CFR Who has shown 'The Gingrich video is an inaccurate, ideologically-laden, lethally biased piece of trash. And it's been widely recognized as such."

Two minutes of Google found me this article in the Washington Post. Pity you couldn't have tried that.

But I suppose "some black folk (Obama's ancestors) came through the flood to represent Satan and white folk (Romney's ancesters) came through the flood to represent the Saviour, Jesus Christ". source - John Taylor.

This issue has always intrigue me. If some LDS believe in a local flood, why would one of Noah's sons have to marry someone of the line of Cain.

Dan Dan Dan, must be such an intellectual burdon for you to believe some of this nonsense.

Noeleeeew,

Nothing you've posted has any relevance to anything Dan wrote. Will you ever be capable of interacting with Latter-day Saints without resorting to gratuitous, spiteful race-baiting?

Regards,

Pahoran

[CQUIRK]

CFR Who has shown 'The Gingrich video is an inaccurate, ideologically-laden, lethally biased piece of trash. And it's been widely recognized as such."

Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, John McCain, etc.

Obviously you haven't been watching the news at all.

[CQUIRK]

Given that she was divorced and pregnant, the church disciplinary council would likely have taken up the issue, without any consideration of the adoption or not. The handbook discourages divorced women from getting pregnant through in vitro, presumably because of concern for a child without two parents, but also because of the appearance of evil. Personally I think that he should have said that he can't respond to her statements because he promised to keep confidential their conversations. And if Romney's argument is that he didn't have authority, that is disingenous at best. I wish he'd explained the doctrine and background of the church's position, rather than the response he is quoted as having made. The demand that Romney was the only one who could give her a blessing does show at least spiritual immaturity.

To quote the Grinch, er, Gingrich, how about you stop with the pious baloney? There wouldn't have been a disciplinary council called up unless the woman was unrepentant in her actions and continued having sexual relations or doing things that would've harmed the child- I knew a friend in the church that got pregnant and wasn't married and didn't get kicked out or face a disciplinary council at all, though she certainly wasn't allowed to give a talk in church or take the sacrament for some time.

​What's even more baloney is how gullible you are to Peggie's silly story.

There is also a story floating out there that he threatened a woman who was getting an abortion, with church discipline, and her father threw him out of the hospital room. I doubt his competitors who argue they are prolife can give any such personal examples of defending the unborn.

More Obama propaganda that you believe without questioning the source, I take it?

[rpn]

Since I was excommunicated for having sex, after having given up the relationship and being fully obedient for almost a year, during about the same time frame, I think I'm in a position to tell you that the current way these things are handled is not the way they were handled necessarily in the 80's. And the abortion story comes from the woman herself, who was interviewed in 2007-2008 race.

[noel00]

Rudy Giuliani(much married man), Mike Huckabee(fundamentalist preacher in the employment of Fox (fair and balanced), John McCain (confessed adultary), etc.

[Calm]

Since I was excommunicated for having sex, after having given up the relationship and being fully obedient for almost a year, during about the same time frame, I think I'm in a position to tell you that the current way these things are handled is not the way they were handled necessarily in the 80's. And the abortion story comes from the woman herself, who was interviewed in 2007-2008 race.

The major problem with the abortion story is that it was reported by the woman to be for a medical life saving procedure, not a convenience abortion and not one based on a birth defect so it seems highly unlikely that a bishop would have interfered in those circumstances. I don't know if this is based solely on the woman's word or not. Romney should not be sharing any information so he is in a lose-lose situation, if he keeps to the church's policy of confidentiality he is like those councils that can't defend themselves for choosing to excommunicate someone if false claims of the cause are made by the exed member; if he chooses to explain his actions, his integrity is questionable even if it turns out his actions were totally appropriate.

Even if the story is as the woman reports in regards to his actions, he may misunderstood the situation.....which certainly is possible since he would not have been given such personal medical information from the doctors and could only have learned of it from someone else the woman or husband (IIIRC she was married) had confided in, it is possible he was given the wrong information, that the abortion was not necessary for medical reasons. I am wondering why it was the father of the woman who had him removed or removed him (I can't remember which) instead of the husband IIRC. I would be interested to hear the story from the point of view of other family members. If he was under the impression it was an abortion of convenience, it makes it understandable why he might be giving a passionate appeal to the woman to stop it as well as warning her that she was risking excommunication by doing so.

I am of two minds about the story even when read in the most positive way possible. OTOH the woman was an adult, I think it inappropriate for someone not directly involved to show up at the hospital unless invited by the patient for any procedure, any medical procedure that requires hospitalization can be very personal for those involved and personal boundaries should be respected. OTOH, I think it's a demonstration of christian charity to care enough about someone's spiritual well being to have the nerve to intrude with the intent to try to persuade them to do what is right (from the intruder's POV, of course which may not be the same thing as the actual right thing to do).

[Pahoran]

Rudy Giuliani(much married man), Mike Huckabee(fundamentalist preacher in the employment of Fox (fair and balanced), John McCain (confessed adultary), etc.

Yes, all of them have been Mitt Romney's political rivals in the past. Given that you have tried to dismiss them with mere ad hominem instead of addressing what they have to say, I take it you have no response at all?

And what, if anything, do you have to say for yourself on the subject of your spiteful, gratuitous race-baiting, above?

Regards,

Pahoran

[noel00]

Amazing. Did or have you had anything to say when Obama's birthplace has been questioned; when he has been accused of being a secret Muslim; when he has been accused as being a socialist (buzz word for communist).

John Taylor did say those things i cited. Darius repeated them on the PBS The Mormons. When were Mormons ever involved in the Civil Rights movement? Benson made comments that it was influenced by the Communists. One of the participants in the I am a Mormon told me years ago that when he was a missionary in New York, that their policy when door knocking was differerent when coming accross Afro-Americans. They would teach them the first dicussion, then only come back for further discussions if asked by the family. The policy with whites was different. They were taught more enthusiastically this and further discussions. So many Afro-Americans were deprived of the "blessings" of the Gospel because of an inconsistant practice of denial of the priesthood,

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Here.

I think the main question of this topic should be- is this Peggie Hayes a anti-Mormon liar, or someone that's lying for political, or even financial gain?

Was he a Bishop? Bishop's are encouraged to recommend adoption.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Was he a Bishop? Bishop's are encouraged to recommend adoption.

BTW, I have already seen one 20 years ago.

[katherine the great]

I don't think this woman is necessarily lying. I know several people who were excommunicated for fornication in the late 70's, early 80's. It probably wouldn't happen today. Most likely though, he didn't "threaten" her with excommunication, but let her know that it was a possibility and that following the church counsel of adoption would be interpreted as a repentant attitude while rejecting it would not thus increasing the possibility of an excommunication. That would be my guess as to the tone of the conversation.

[Jeff K.]

Amazing. Did or have you had anything to say when Obama's birthplace has been questioned; when he has been accused of being a secret Muslim; when he has been accused as being a socialist (buzz word for communist).

John Taylor did say those things i cited. Darius repeated them on the PBS The Mormons. When were Mormons ever involved in the Civil Rights movement? Benson made comments that it was influenced by the Communists. One of the participants in the I am a Mormon told me years ago that when he was a missionary in New York, that their policy when door knocking was differerent when coming accross Afro-Americans. They would teach them the first dicussion, then only come back for further discussions if asked by the family. The policy with whites was different. They were taught more enthusiastically this and further discussions. So many Afro-Americans were deprived of the "blessings" of the Gospel because of an inconsistant practice of denial of the priesthood,

That is a crock, the missionaries I knew in the south were very enthusiastic when it came to teaching African Americans. They were even more so after President Kimbles presentation to the membership. I was a young man, but went on splits with them as part of my youth in our branch.

[Jeff K.]

I think the woman sees things through a lens that is inconsistent.

[CQUIRK]

Since I was excommunicated for having sex, after having given up the relationship and being fully obedient for almost a year, during about the same time frame, I think I'm in a position to tell you that the current way these things are handled is not the way they were handled necessarily in the 80's.

CFR then.

And the abortion story comes from the woman herself, who was interviewed in 2007-2008 race.

Who obviously had her own motives for spewing her laughable hogwash then, as she does now.

[CQUIRK]

noel00 makes her case:

[CQUIRK]

Amazing. Did or have you had anything to say when Obama's birthplace has been questioned; when he has been accused of being a secret Muslim; when he has been accused as being a socialist (buzz word for communist).

John Taylor did say those things i cited.

Just what have you been smoking?

[CQUIRK]

I don't think this woman is necessarily lying. I know several people who were excommunicated for fornication in the late 70's, early 80's. It probably wouldn't happen today. Most likely though, he didn't "threaten" her with excommunication, but let her know that it was a possibility and that following the church counsel of adoption would be interpreted as a repentant attitude while rejecting it would not thus increasing the possibility of an excommunication. That would be my guess as to the tone of the conversation.

That's possible, but for whatever her motivations are- I still think Peggie Hayes is talking out of her butt

[noel00]

Actually I have never smoked and I am a "He" The gentleman who appears on I am Mormon is still around. I imagine if you were converting a significant number of Afro-Americans they would have the same status as those in the Relief Society, They would nopt have been able to baptise their kids, pray for healing or ordain them in a priesthood office. That would be quite humiliating which along with lynching, jim crow laws, segegration etc be another thing to deal with. Oh well that's what you get when you can't decide to pick the right side.

[CQUIRK]

Actually I have never smoked and I am a "He" The gentleman who appears on I am Mormon is still around. I imagine if you were converting a significant number of Afro-Americans they would have the same status as those in the Relief Society, They would nopt have been able to baptise their kids, pray for healing or ordain them in a priesthood office. That would be quite humiliating which along with lynching, jim crow laws, segegration etc be another thing to deal with. Oh well that's what you get when you can't decide to pick the right side.

'...nopt have been able to baptise their kids?'

My, we certainly are making sense.

However, unlike the many other protestant and evangelical churches back then, we supported abolition of slavery, we didn't support the KKK, we still allowed hispanics, native americans, and asians to have the priesthood in our church, and blacks could still be baptized and be counted as members in our church.

Very few of the older churches and/or denominations were non-racist or not prejudiced against any particular race in their past history.

In fact, for even a church to not only be accepting of other races, but to also preach against racism would have been considered taboo by mainstream society back then.

Yet you still can't back up the accuracy of your claims and attacks on Mitt Romney's record with Bain, and instead changed the subject, plus you may need to be more mindful of your spelling too, FYI.

[Pahoran]

Noeleeeeeeew,

You raved:

Amazing. Did or have you had anything to say when Obama's birthplace has been questioned; when he has been accused of being a secret Muslim; when he has been accused as being a socialist (buzz word for communist).

So Obama also had opponents who were almost as spiteful and unscrupulous as you are. So what?

John Taylor did say those things i cited.

Which has nothing to do with this thread. As you perfectly well know.

Darius repeated them on the PBS The Mormons. When were Mormons ever involved in the Civil Rights movement?

There were plenty of Mormons involved, but that has nothing to do with this thread. As you perfectly well know.

Benson made comments that it was influenced by the Communists.

And he was subsequently shown to have been right, but that has nothing to do with this thread. As you perfectly well know.

One of the participants in the I am a Mormon told me years ago that when he was a missionary in New York, that their policy when door knocking was differerent when coming accross Afro-Americans. They would teach them the first dicussion, then only come back for further discussions if asked by the family. The policy with whites was different. They were taught more enthusiastically this and further discussions. So many Afro-Americans were deprived of the "blessings" of the Gospel because of an inconsistant practice of denial of the priesthood,

That's entirely off-topic and, like everything else you post, irrelevant.

Do you have anything at all to say that might be relevant to this topic?

Regards,

Pahoran

[Skylla]

Noel is out of the thread.

[noel00]

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/11302622-republican-disgrace-kansas-gop-leader-prays-for-death-of-the-president-of-the-united-states

Kansas House Speaker Mike O'Neal used Psalm 109 from the Catholic Bible to "pray" for Obama's death.

"Let his days be few; and let another take his office

May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow.

May his children be wandering beggars; may they be driven from their ruined homes.

May a creditor seize all he has; may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.

May no one extend kindness to him or take pity on his fatherless children."