LeSellers Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Really? Hmm...perhaps I misunderstood some of the stories I've heard. Good to know.I was often the only Saint around during some military exercise or other, and was never authorized to prepare and administer the Sacrament. I had to go without.Lehi
Calm Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Yes, why not?I believe there is the "other half" of God the father, that is every bit as much God the Mother.And we are taught that men aren't getting to the Celestial Kingdom on their own but in oneness with their wives and I don't think the reason the women are going to be there is to stand around and worship the men when they go off to hang out with the Father while the women stay behind and do womanly (translated 'not godly') things. There is not differentiation in the promise of being one with the Father and the Son. There is nothing that says this is true for the men, not so much so for women.
Lightbearer Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Yes, why not?I believe there is the "other half" of God the father, that is every bit as much God the Mother.That is my point, Heavenly Mother does not hold the priesthood, so why the need?
Calm Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 I was often the only Saint around during some military exercise or other, and was never authorized to prepare and administer the Sacrament. I had to go without.LehiWell, then it becomes primarily a number issue as far as short term blessings in my view.....it would be a way to likely double worthy priesthood holders allowing branches to be opened where there is currently not enough worthy priesthood holders. However, I think there is evidence that consistent attendance and development comes best among full families and not part member families so that creating branches that lack strong families might in the long run backfire and cause more problems for the members than having to wait for the blessing of a more accessible branch or ward.
Calm Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) That is my point, Heavenly Mother does not hold the priesthood, so why the need?How do you know this? Have you been to the temple and heard the blessings promised women there? Edited January 6, 2012 by calmoriah
Senator Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 That is my point, Heavenly Mother does not hold the priesthood, so why the need?How do you know she doesn't? Just because the women don't hold it here in this estate?
Senator Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 And we are taught that men aren't getting to the Celestial Kingdom on their own but in oneness with their wives and I don't think the reason the women are going to be there is to stand around and worship the men when they go off to hang out with the Father while the women stay behind and do womanly (translated 'not godly') things. There is not differentiation in the promise of being one with the Father and the Son. There is nothing that says this is true for the men, not so much so for women.2 for 2
Deborah Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 I have to continue to disagree. Perhaps these analogies will help explain my confusion:Your analogies make no sense and have nothing to do with what I said. Why on earth would you conclude "Women give birth to children. Men only provide sperm. Therefore women should not have the priesthood." One has nothing to do with the other. The fact that women give birth is not related to why they wouldn't have the Priesthood. They are different roles. Women have the privilege of being co-creators with God, while men have the privilege of exercising Priesthood authority; both expand the kingdom of God.I have a question. Is your wife clamoring to have the Priesthood bestowed on her. If so why? If not, why do you care?
Lightbearer Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 How do you know this? Have you been to the temple and heard the blessings promised women there?Yes I have. How do you know she does?
Nominee Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Women don't need the Priesthood, they need more worthy men. 1
Senator Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Women don't need the Priesthood, they need more worthy men. Or the reinstatement of polygamy......
Buckeye Posted January 6, 2012 Author Posted January 6, 2012 Your analogies make no sense and have nothing to do with what I said. Why on earth would you conclude "Women give birth to children. Men only provide sperm. Therefore women should not have the priesthood." One has nothing to do with the other. The fact that women give birth is not related to why they wouldn't have the Priesthood. They are different roles. Women have the privilege of being co-creators with God, while men have the privilege of exercising Priesthood authority; both expand the kingdom of God.I have a question. Is your wife clamoring to have the Priesthood bestowed on her. If so why? If not, why do you care?Perhaps we're speaking past each other. I was not advocating for women to be denied priesthood on the rationale that they alone can birth children. That was the point of my analogies. None of them make sense. The reason for the analogies is that I have often heard it argued (and thought you would arguing) that because women alone can give birth, that is their role and priesthood is men's role. You say you disagree with that (so do I), but I'm still not sure if the dichotomoy you're drawing is child-birth or womanhood. Yes, I know there's a big difference between the two. But the only part of womanhood that you've pointed to as being a basis for denying priesthood is child-birth.So please answer me this. What is it about womanhood that would not benefit from priesthood (or priestesshood as promised in the temple) where fatherhood is benefited by priesthood?To answer your questions, my wife is somewhat ambivilent on the issue. She would accept a change, but is not as anxious as I am. i.e., she's content. I am not. I desire the change because I desire for her (and my daughters when they're old enough) to experience the joy that comes with bearing the priesthood. They can experience much joy now, but not as much as they could with the priesthood. I think that's a righteous desire and want the brethren to take it to the Lord.
katherine the great Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Or the reinstatement of polygamy......Pass!
Nominee Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Or the reinstatement of polygamy......God's own people, here on earth, are not righteous enough to handle it~ not even close.
Deborah Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 They can experience much joy now, but not as much as they could with the priesthood. I think that's a righteous desire and want the brethren to take it to the Lord.But that is an assumption you are making on their behalf. I honestly don't see how exercising the Priesthood would bring any more joy than I can now have.
Buckeye Posted January 6, 2012 Author Posted January 6, 2012 But that is an assumption you are making on their behalf. I honestly don't see how exercising the Priesthood would bring any more joy than I can now have.Fair enough. Though I'd say priesthood for women is my belief, not an assumption. An assumption is something you accept without any basis. I do have a basis for my position - it would benefit women for the same reasons it benefits men - and so it's more than an assumption. Your belief is that you would not benefit. I can accept that. But saying you don't want it is different from saying all women should be denied it, even if they do want it.
Calm Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Yes I have. How do you know she does?Because it makes little sense to believe that women are promised something that Heavenly Mother does not currently possess and the term "priestess" doesn't mean "housewife".In addition, those who receive the Abrahamic covenant and are faithful to it are promised they will become kings and priests (or queens and priestesses) unto Godhttp://lds.org/manua...query=priestessThey will not be gods and goddesses and priests and priestesses because they did not fulfill the commandments and do the things that were required at their hands.http://lds.org/manual/young-women-manual-2/lesson-15-temple-marriage?lang=eng&query=priestess Edited January 6, 2012 by calmoriah
Duncan Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Women don't need the Priesthood, they need more worthy men. buckets of woe and gushers of sorrow, I ran out of rep points!
Calm Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 A quote somewhat related to the topic:When the Prophet Joseph Smith organized the Relief Society after the pattern of the priesthood in 1842, he told the women that they were responsible for their own sins. For some this was a radical thought in those days. He taught them they were responsible for their own salvation, that they had access to every needed blessing the priesthood gives, that they also had direct access to the Holy Ghost and to spiritual gifts and they also had direct access to the Savior—to model him, become like him, be heirs in his kingdom. (See Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1938, pp. 223–229.)http://lds.org/ensign/1980/08/the-lord-as-a-role-model-for-men-and-women?lang=eng&query=priestess
TAO Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) buckets of woe and gushers of sorrow, I ran out of rep points!I'll contribute ;-). Edited January 6, 2012 by TAO
TAO Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Yes I have. How do you know she does?Lightbearer, tis probably best to talk to Lehi on this one.
David T Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) A quote somewhat related to the topic:http://lds.org/ensig...query=priestessOf course, that was also when Joseph not just allowed, but instructed women to participate in laying-on-of-hands healing blessings. A privilege that was eventually institutionally revoked.There are times when I would love to ask my wife to give me a blessing of comfort, instead of having to go to someone outside our home. Just as she is able to ask me to do the same for her. Something I love having the opportunity to do for her. Edited January 6, 2012 by nackhadlow
katherine the great Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Of course, that was also when Joseph not just allowed, but instructed women to participate in laying-on-of-hands healing blessings. A privilege that was eventually institutionally revoked.There are times when I would love to ask my wife to give me a blessing of comfort, instead of having to go to someone outside our home. Just as she is able to ask me to do the same for her. Something I love having the opportunity to do for her.Is it really so different than kneeling in prayer with her and she praying out loud in your behalf? My visiting teachers always leave me with a prayer and ask specific blessings for me, and I consider it a blessing in every way and not at all inferior to a priesthood blessing.
Senator Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 I'm getting the impression from several of the responses, that there really isn't anything 'special', where the rubber meets the road, about holding the priesthood 1
Buckeye Posted January 6, 2012 Author Posted January 6, 2012 Is it really so different than kneeling in prayer with her and she praying out loud in your behalf? My visiting teachers always leave me with a prayer and ask specific blessings for me, and I consider it a blessing in every way and not at all inferior to a priesthood blessing.I can only speak for myself - but absolutely. It is a different experience when I anoint and invoke priesthood to bless my child than when I just offer a prayer. It is a different experience when, just before my mission, my Father laid his hands on my head, invoked priesthood, and through the spirit gave me a Father's Blessing. I carry a copy of that blessing in my scriptures to this day. It is scripture to me. I have nothing like that from my mother, though I would love to. And as I said before, it is quite a different experience for a Laurel to stand and watch her younger sibling be baptized than it is for her twin brother who is in the font actually performing the baptism. Again, I can't speak for any others. But you have to ask. If the blessings are really the same, then why should you ever "send for the Elders"? Why not "send for the visiting teachers to come say a prayer"? Why have any priesthood blessings? The answer: because there is a difference.
Recommended Posts