Terrestrial Requirements During the Millennium

[sweetpotatoh]

Hello,

Yesterday during gospel doctrine (Dec. 11) the instructor was teaching the last lesson in the New Testament. The instructor chose to focus on the millennium. The instructor stated that the requirement to enter the terrestrial kingdom, and being brought forth in the first resurrection, was to be a good person. The instructor was so excited because their neighbors are good people and will be there in the millennium with the instructor. The instructor also stated that 80% of (the city we live in) would be in the terrestrial kingdom, and the millennium.

I raised my hand and quoted the following scripture D&C 76: 81-82

81 And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament.

82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus.

The instructor stated that you don’t have to have a testimony of Christ or have accepted his gospel to enter into the terrestrial kingdom. I found this to be a direct contradiction of scripture. A lady in the class said that the scripture I quoted only pertains to those who have received the gospel and rejected it. The scripture doesn’t say anything about being a member and rejecting the gospel. I believe that if you have received the testimony of Jesus then you will be in the terrestrial kingdom regardless of religious affiliation. At the same time if you had the opportunity to receive Christ, regardless of religious affiliation, and didn't you will be in the telestial kingdom. Am I wrong? It wouldn’t be the first time. I tend to think in black and white and have a harder time recognizing the various shades of gray.

I then thought how odd it would be to be present during the millennium and not have a testimony of Christ. After all he will rule and install a government. We will all look to him to lead us. Can a person who doesn’t have a testimony of Christ be present during the millennium and live with all of us that do? Satan will be bound because of the righteousness of those who are present during the millennium. He will not be able to tempt us. Can Satan be bound by good people who don’t believe in Christ and have not received his gospel?

Sweetpotatoh.

[altersteve]

I believe that those present during the Millennium will all be destined for the celestial kingdom, who have faith in Christ and have repented, been baptized, received the gift of the Holy Ghost, and endured to the end. That's always been my understanding.

[LeSellers]

The Terrestrial kingdom and the Terrestrial world are two different things that share a lot of common characteristics.

The world will be Terrestrial during the Millennium, but it will not be the Terrestrial kingdom. That "place" won't even exist until after the last udgement, when those who are prepared for it will be sent there.

If you've been to the Temple, think about the transition from the "lone and dreary world" to the Terrestrial world (not kingdom). There's more light, symbolic of the greater obedience people in that world have to the laws of the rightful king, Jesus Christ.

All who find themselves in the Terrestrial world will be "good people" but they will not all be Saints (although we will be running a very strong missionary effort, and many—if not most or even all of them—will join His Church).

Lehi

[Freedom]

Uh oh, another thread on the degrees of glory.

If there is room for speculation then there is no answer. There is a difference, however, between not believing in Christ and rejecting Christ. I know a lot of people who do not believe in Christ who will no doubt live in the celestial kingdom simply because they never received a witness but would have if the opportunity presented itself. The scriptures say that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. I also find it hard to believe that,during the millennium, there will be anybody that does not believe. They would have to be mentally ill or handicapped. It would be like having a neighbor who does not believe in Mexico.

[LeSellers]

Uh oh, another thread on the degrees of glory.

Not really.

This one is about the "Terrestrial" world that will exist during the Millennium, which is a distinctly different thing, although the two (the kingdom and the world) have the same "first" name and share many other characteristics.

Lehi

[LeSellers]

It might be helpful if the Mods could change the title of the topic to "Terrestrial Requirements During the Millennium" to avoid confusion.

Lehi

[sweetpotatoh]

I believe that those present during the Millennium will all be destined for the celestial kingdom, who have faith in Christ and have repented, been baptized, received the gift of the Holy Ghost, and endured to the end. That's always been my understanding.

altersteve,

According to the Gospel Principles manual, lesson 45 titled The Millennium. Pg 263

"Because of the destruction of the wicked at the Savior’s Second Coming, only righteous people will live on the earth at the beginning of the Millennium. They will be those who have lived virtuous and honest lives. These people will inherit either the terrestrial or celestial kingdom."

That says that people in the millennium will either be terrestrial or celestial. That makes sense since the celestial kingdom is representative of Gods glory. The terrestrial kingdom is representative of Jesus Christs Glory.

[sweetpotatoh]

It might be helpful if the Mods could change the title of the topic to "Terrestrial Requirements During the Millennium" to avoid confusion.

Lehi

I second the motion.

[LeSellers]

It might be helpful if the Mods could change the title of the topic to "Terrestrial Requirements During the Millennium" to avoid confusion.

I second the motion.

Given it's your topic, you'd be the logical one to request the change.

Click the "Contact Us" link at the top of each page and Ares or Minos or someone will see it and, good Lord willin' an' the creek don' rise, will effect your request.

Lehi

[Freedom]

Not really.

This one is about the "Terrestrial" world that will exist during the Millennium, which is a distinctly different thing, although the two (the kingdom and the world) have the same "first" name and share many other characteristics.

Lehi

I am just a bit paranoid due to a certain posters unique views (And I use that term as it is intended, he being the only one in all creation with the views)

[Freedom]

I suspect that the transition will be gradual. It begs the question, what will happen to all the evil people? Will they really all die in natural calamities? Will they be exterminated in some way? Will there be a autocratic regime where those who do not live the standards are exiled? I suspect that it will take a generation to clean the environmental and social disasters that would remain.

[sweetpotatoh]

Freedom,

I always understood that those that are alive when Christ returns and are not worthy of being present during the millennium will be destroyed with fire. The earth will be cleansed to a terrestrial state. I could be confusing it with when the earth is transformed to a celestial state.

[Freedom]

Freedom,

I always understood that those that are alive when Christ returns and are not worthy of being present during the millennium will be destroyed with fire. The earth will be cleansed to a terrestrial state. I could be confusing it with when the earth is transformed to a celestial state.

Is this a literal event? Picturing it in this manner is quite horrific, it would a mass and brutal genocide. It conjures images of Nazi concentration camps. I suppose we are not told the how for a reason.

[livy111us]

I guess the whole "every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess" thing really doesn't apply here in his mind

[LeSellers]

I guess the whole "every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess" thing really doesn't apply here in his mind

I don't know about "in his mind", but "in this case", no. Every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that "Jesus is the king", but not necessarily "the Christ" in the Terrestrial world of the Millennium.

Missionaries will be active (more even than now), and there will be huge numbers of converts, but it is not a requirement that all those who live during the Millennium will be Saints.

There will be no theft because there will be no thieves, no lies because no liars. There will be no adultery for a lack of adulterers, no blasphemy due to there being no blasphemers. All of the evils in the world will be missing from the Terrestrial world of the Millennium because those who are evil will have been exterminated, irrespective of religion, nationality, race, or sex. Those who remain will be temporally righteous, including Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, Saints, Catholics, and even a few Baptists along with the rest. Locksmithing may be a lost profession, as will private investigation and law. On the other hand, there will be a huge demand for genealogists and transcriptionists. Because of the Baptists, inter alia., there will remain a demand for pastors and imams, priests and vedics. Medicine will be an empty profession: no need for pediatricians nor for obstetricians (although midwifery will remain a valid practice) and none for orthopedic surgeons.

Lehi

[LeSellers]

Is this a literal event? Picturing it in this manner is quite horrific, it would a mass and brutal genocide. It conjures images of Nazi concentration camps. I suppose we are not told the how for a reason.

Not a whole lot different from the original cleansing by the flood, or the purging of the firstborn of the Egyptians, or the scouring of Canaan.

It may conjure up visions of concentration camps, but that's at the viewer's discretion, not the prophets', nor of God's.

We are told "how": it will be by fire.

Lehi

[sweetpotatoh]

Freedom,

Is it any different then when the earth was flooded? I guess if you don't believe in literal flood then I see your point. I am here to learn.

When is the earth cleansed with fire? For some reason I always thought that the earth will be cleansed with fire at the time Christ returns. This may be in error.

[LeSellers]

When is the earth cleansed with fire? For some reason I always thought that the earth will be cleansed with fire at the time Christ returns.

You are correct.

When Christ returns, He will cleanse the earth by fire, as the hymn goes, and righteousness bring in.

Lehi

Edited December 12, 2011 by LeSellers

[thesometimesaint]

Actual fire doesn't care whether you've been bad or good.

[sweetpotatoh]

But is it "actual fire" or some kind that can distinguish between evil and good.

[LeSellers]

Actual fire doesn't care whether you've been bad or good.

While true, it is misleading, in my opinion. But it does explain why we are to "stand in holy places".

All the Israelites were not saved from the Angel of Death. Some failed to put the blood of a lamb on their door posts and lintels. We are left to wonder if any Egyptians put blood on their doors. After all, the other nine plagues happened just as Moses had prophesied.

Lehi

[Rivers]

Hello,

Yesterday during gospel doctrine (Dec. 11) the instructor was teaching the last lesson in the New Testament. The instructor chose to focus on the millennium. The instructor stated that the requirement to enter the terrestrial kingdom, and being brought forth in the first resurrection, was to be a good person. The instructor was so excited because their neighbors are good people and will be there in the millennium with the instructor. The instructor also stated that 80% of (the city we live in) would be in the terrestrial kingdom, and the millennium.

I raised my hand and quoted the following scripture D&C 76: 81-82

81 And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament.

82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus.

The instructor stated that you don’t have to have a testimony of Christ or have accepted his gospel to enter into the terrestrial kingdom. I found this to be a direct contradiction of scripture. A lady in the class said that the scripture I quoted only pertains to those who have received the gospel and rejected it. The scripture doesn’t say anything about being a member and rejecting the gospel. I believe that if you have received the testimony of Jesus then you will be in the terrestrial kingdom regardless of religious affiliation. At the same time if you had the opportunity to receive Christ, regardless of religious affiliation, and didn't you will be in the telestial kingdom. Am I wrong? It wouldn’t be the first time. I tend to think in black and white and have a harder time recognizing the various shades of gray.

I then thought how odd it would be to be present during the millennium and not have a testimony of Christ. After all he will rule and install a government. We will all look to him to lead us. Can a person who doesn’t have a testimony of Christ be present during the millennium and live with all of us that do? Satan will be bound because of the righteousness of those who are present during the millennium. He will not be able to tempt us. Can Satan be bound by good people who don’t believe in Christ and have not received his gospel?

Sweetpotatoh.

Perhaps there will be people who see Jesus and think he some extra-terrestrial taking over the world.

[Freedom]

Freedom,

Is it any different then when the earth was flooded? I guess if you don't believe in literal flood then I see your point. I am here to learn.

When is the earth cleansed with fire? For some reason I always thought that the earth will be cleansed with fire at the time Christ returns. This may be in error.

I recognize you are referring to the general 'you' rather than talking specifically about me but my opinion is that the scriptures say there was a flood so I accept there was a flood. I just don't know how it occurred. I don't know if it covered the entire planet as in water world or if it was a local phenomena. There will be great destruction in the days, perhaps resulting in a massive depopulation. it could be that the wicked will kill off the wicked as frequently occurs in gang violence. The scriptures say that Zion will become terrible and there is an argument that Zion will be as Israel of old, lead by a prophet/king, possibly to become a literal royal army. It could be the righteous against the wicked in a global war. if there was such a division, I could see how the wicked would be routed and destroyed.

There could even be an ironic gathering of people to fight against the powerful army of zion because they interpret the army to be the great beast. So there could be a geo-political division as well as an ecclesiastical division. Churches aligning themselves with questionable military forces under the banner 'those who are not against us are with us'. they would align themselves with the mark of the beast unintentionally, so focused on destroying what they believe is evil that the wicked means justify the supposed righteous ends. We way great antisemitism in Europe in early 20th century and when the right government came to power, these critics performed the unthinkable. I could see the hatred of the religious right that is exhibited in online vitriolic attacks turn into physical violence. It is amazing how quickly people become animals if the circumstances allow it. I can just imagine how the world would become divided both in terms of morals and in terms of geography. The righteous will literally gather to zion, perhaps locations designated around the globe, and the corrupt armies will kill themselves off. the only government left standing would be the theocracy with two surviving cities: the old Jerusalem adn the new Jerusalem.

Of course, I am still counting on a zombie Apocalypse. The retro-virus will 'turn' you when you are naughty. 'now Johnny, you put that cookie back. We don't want you turning into a zombie like pot smoking Uncle Albert'.

[altersteve]

altersteve,

According to the Gospel Principles manual, lesson 45 titled The Millennium. Pg 263

"Because of the destruction of the wicked at the Savior’s Second Coming, only righteous people will live on the earth at the beginning of the Millennium. They will be those who have lived virtuous and honest lives. These people will inherit either the terrestrial or celestial kingdom."

That says that people in the millennium will either be terrestrial or celestial. That makes sense since the celestial kingdom is representative of Gods glory. The terrestrial kingdom is representative of Jesus Christs Glory.

Okay, but I don't think there will be anyone in the terrestrial kingdom who don't have a testimony of Christ.

And I never thought that the earth would be cleansed by actual "fire." I've always interpreted this "fire" to be the same type of "fire" that we are baptized by. I don't think the entire earth will literally be engulfed in flames, but rather in God's glory.

Edited December 12, 2011 by altersteve

[Ares]

It might be helpful if the Mods could change the title of the topic to "Terrestrial Requirements During the Millennium" to avoid confusion.

Lehi

Done.