Terrestrial Requirements During the Millennium

[Freedom]

Which is worse: porn or Nazis? In almost every matter, the trend has been toward the development of a world-wide state of peace.

I would agree that we tend to sensationalize the darker parts of our society to support the notion of a pending Apocalypse. I would rather have a gay brother that cares for his lover than a heterosexual sibling that beats his wife.

[sweetpotatoh]

I should have known the answers would run the gammet. Any opinions on D&C 76:81-82? Does the scripture leave room for those who don't believe in Christ to be present on the earth during the millennium?

[Cobalt-70]

I should have known the answers would run the gammet. Any opinions on D&C 76:81-82? Does the scripture leave room for those who don't believe in Christ to be present on the earth during the millennium?

Absolutely. Smith clearly believed this in the 1840s. He said there would be non-Christians (Jews, Muslims, etc.) in the millennium.

D&C 76:81-82 refers to the state of people at the final judgment, not during the Millennium. Someone who does not accept Jesus during their lifetime may be in a Terrestrial state if he or she is an honorable person. If in the after life, they still do not accept that Jesus is Lord, then they might apparently be assigned a Telestial glory at the final judgment, according to D&C 76.

But actually, I think that D&C 76 may have been effectively amended by Smith's later teachings. This revelation was long before Smith introduced baptism for the dead, in which one's state of salvation could change in the afterlife. By 1844, when Smith gave his King Follett sermon, I think that Smith believed that eventually, "every knee shall bow" and "every tongue confess" that Jesus is Lord, except for the sons of perdition. Thus, ultimately, even Telestial people would eventually receive the testimony of Jesus. So either the Telestial world is a temporary place, or it will be filled with people who have accepted Jesus.

[Nominee]

I should have known the answers would run the gammet. Any opinions on D&C 76:81-82? Does the scripture leave room for those who don't believe in Christ to be present on the earth during the millennium?

In my opinion, no, it does not leave room for those who do not believe in Christ to be present on the earth during the millennium ~if they have been given the opportunity to believe in Christ and turned away from it then they will be burned.

[Cobalt-70]

In my opinion, no, it does not leave room for those who do not believe in Christ to be present on the earth during the millennium ~if they have been given the opportunity to believe in Christ and turned away from it then they will be burned.

I think you are only partially right. Joseph Smith said, "There will be wicked men on the earth during the thousand years. The heathen nations who will not come up to worship will be visited with the judgments of God, and must eventually be destroyed from the earth." So there will be "heathens" on the earth during the Millennium, but Smith is saying that ultimately, by the end of the 1000 years, they will be either destroyed or converted.

Note also that Smith planned to include people of many denominations, including non-Christian denominations, in his Council of Fifty (the Millennial legislature, which was to operate under Smith, as world monarch). And in fact, the Council of Fifty after Smith's coronation did have a few non-Mormon members. So Smith clearly did not believe that everyone in the Millennium had to accept Jesus. At least not immediately.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Cobalt-70

[frankenstein]

I agree with cobalt that section 76 has to do with resurrection and final judgment and nothing to with the millinium.

As for every knee bowing and tongue confessing; my opinion is that it will be acknowledged by all, but not all will have a testimony so to speak. For example at times laman and lemeul experienced things that at that moment they would confess to.

Edited December 14, 2011 by frankenstein

[sweetpotatoh]

Frankenstein,

What do you think about this? Those who are in the millennium are those going to the terrestrial and celestial kingdoms. If you don't qualify for either kingdom you won't be present during the millennium. So logically, you would have to be able to bear his presence as he will rule. Also those who are in the millennium are resurrected. The first resurrection takes place before the millennium.

[frankenstein]

But for the quote from cobalt just above my post I would tend to agree with you sweetpotato. I like your analysis.

[altersteve]

The problem I have with this theory is that wickedness has grown so this fire does not seem to be working. Or am I misunderstanding your theory.

You seem to have misunderstood it. It's not that the fire isn't working, it's simply the fact that wickedness is spreading faster. But that will soon change.

[Rob Osborn]

You believe, I believe, all the church material believes, every conference talk on the matter believes, and every LDS scholar who has written on the subject believes he is wrong. But he certainly has given me the motivation to study the matter more closely. Nevertheless, it is curious to me that the same term is used when the conditions between the telestial world and the telestial kingdom are so dramatically different.

"Telestial kingdom" and "telestial world" are the same thing. I think we have a hard time with this because so many have given their opinion stating- that while this earth may be a telestial world, it is not the telestial kingdom. If the temple endowment trumps all else- it being the last official doctrine we have concerning the three glories, then by all means, this earth is the telestial kingdom. So, the big question here is this- if the temple truly represents the plan of salvation in its fullest to us at this point, then the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms are temporary kingdoms that we pass through in order to be saved into the celestial at the end of the millennium. why would we have differing plans unless it be the classic case of misunderstanding prior doctrine? The BoM prophets weren't exempt either- they honestly believed it was impossible to repent after death. Of note- Christ will only cleanse one (singular) kingdom to present to the Father. All else will be cast into outer darkness.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Rob Osborn