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Posted

“And it came to pass that he immediately sent an epistle to Pahoran, desiring that he should cause men to be gathered together to strengthen Helaman, or the armies of Helaman,”(Alma 59:3).

In Akkadian, paḫāru means potter(1). The same is true in Aramaic (Daniel 2:41). In Akkadian, the word also stands as a personal name: Paḫāru (1). As a verb, paḫāru also means to “to assemble, congregate, muster”, especially for military purposes (1). Although Pahoran seems to be Egyptian in origin, a Semitic origin can’t be ruled out either(2).

Sources

(1)The Assyrian Dictionary of the Oriental Institute of The University of Chicago, p, pg 22-24.

(2) H. Nibley, “Proper Names In The Book of Mormon,” An Approach To The Book of Mormon, www.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu.

Posted

You called?

Actually the reason I chose Pahoran as my screen name was because it was an authentic ancient Egyptian name that Book of Mormon critics have never been able to explain.

The oddest thing for me is that the name appears in ~67BC, over 500 years after the Lehites made landfall. So the fact that the name had been carried over by the Lehites and survived that long is pretty amazing in and of itself. Almost as amazing as there being a remarkable lack of New World names being adopted so long after they had merged with the local culture.

I suspect that, should the contents of the Brass Plates ever be cataloged, we shouldn't be surprised to find "2,002 Egyptian Baby Names" tucked in there somewhere.

Posted
The oddest thing for me is that the name appears in ~67BC, over 500 years after the Lehites made landfall. So the fact that the name had been carried over by the Lehites and survived that long is pretty amazing in and of itself. Almost as amazing as there being a remarkable lack of New World names being adopted so long after they had merged with the local culture.

Even more amazingly, the events in the Bible happened around 2000 years ago, but you still meet people with names like Peter, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Nathaniel, Matthew and Paul, not to mention Mary.

And not only among people who have "merged" with non-semitic cultures, but who actually have no known connection with semitic cultures. Amazing. [/cinepro mode]

I suspect that, should the contents of the Brass Plates ever be cataloged, we shouldn't be surprised to find "2,002 Egyptian Baby Names" tucked in there somewhere.

Tell us, C-pro: do you even know how to post without oozing sarcasm everywhere?

Regards,

Pahoran

Posted

In Akkadian, paḫāru means potter(1). The same is true in Aramaic (Daniel 2:41). In Akkadian, the word also stands as a personal name: Paḫāru (1). As a verb, paḫāru also means to “to assemble, congregate, muster”, especially for military purposes (1). Although Pahoran seems to be Egyptian in origin, a Semitic origin can’t be ruled out either(2).

Unfortunately, none of these proposed etymologies work for Parhoron—the "correct spelling of the name," as Royal Skousen pointed out almost 15 years ago.

Posted
Unfortunately, none of these proposed etymologies work for Parhoron—the "correct spelling of the name," as Royal Skousen pointed out almost 15 years ago.

That actually depends upon whether the spelling is supposed to represent a transliteration (written representation of the letters on the plates) or a vocalisation of the name. It is my understanding that in the north-eastern US in the early 19th, the "accent" was a lot more like that of their British cousins than it is today; and in most British dialects, the "R" phoneme is generally unheard unless it precedes a vowel. When the r follows a vowel it lengthens it. In other words, the "r" in "Parhoron" may have been intended as a signal to the reader that the first A was to sound like the A in "ah," not in "at."

Regards,

Pahoran/Parhoron (both of which sound the same where I live.)

Posted

That actually depends upon whether the spelling is supposed to represent a transliteration (written representation of the letters on the plates) or a vocalisation of the name. It is my understanding that in the north-eastern US in the early 19th, the "accent" was a lot more like that of their British cousins than it is today; and in most British dialects, the "R" phoneme is generally unheard unless it precedes a vowel. When the r follows a vowel it lengthens it. In other words, the "r" in "Parhoron" may have been intended as a signal to the reader that the first A was to sound like the A in "ah," not in "at."

That's an interesting thought. I understand Royal Skousen maintains that at least some of the names were spelled out during the dictation of the Book of Mormon (there seems to be good evidence of this for "Coriantumr"), but I don't know how confident we can be that this was the case for "Parhoron." I'll have to listen again to the recording of Wilford Woodruff's testimony since that's probably close to what Joseph Smith sounded like.

(I am familiar with the phenomenon you speak of. When members of the Royal Family visit, they always extend their greetings to the people of "Canadar." My dad was in the Canadian Army, not the British, but he still says "kharki" instead of "khaki.")

Posted

That actually depends upon whether the spelling is supposed to represent a transliteration (written representation of the letters on the plates) or a vocalisation of the name. It is my understanding that in the north-eastern US in the early 19th, the "accent" was a lot more like that of their British cousins than it is today; and in most British dialects, the "R" phoneme is generally unheard unless it precedes a vowel. When the r follows a vowel it lengthens it. In other words, the "r" in "Parhoron" may have been intended as a signal to the reader that the first A was to sound like the A in "ah," not in "at."

Regards,

Pahoran/Parhoron (both of which sound the same where I live.)

Back when I lived in the UK (Cheltenham, Gloucestershire back in 1969-71), depending upon the local origin of the speaker, some people could pack Rs into the most amazing places, almost exclusively after the A sound, where no supporting letter R could be found in the written form. My memory has eroded to the point where I can't recall any specific examples, but one particular teacher in the school I was in was particularly prone to it.

Posted (edited)

Even more amazingly, the events in the Bible happened around 2000 years ago, but you still meet people with names like Peter, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Nathaniel, Matthew and Paul, not to mention Mary.

Are you saying that Lehite records with the name "Pahoran" became as widely preponderant among the indigenous cultures of the New World which the Lehites joined as the Bible has been in the western world for the last 2,000 years? Did they translate these records into the new world languages of the time, or did they teach their converts the necessary language skills to appreciate and propagate their old-world names?

And in any land where I've seen religious conversions, you find members of the Church with native names. Sure, you might find a "Nephi" or "Joseph" among them as they borrow languages from the scriptures or Church history, but you'll still find a lot of boys named Viktor or Vasily among Russian LDS, or Manuels and Cesars among Mexican LDS. Are there any names in the Book of Mormon that indicate a new-world origin? Maybe after 7-800 years?

Edited by cinepro
Posted

That actually depends upon whether the spelling is supposed to represent a transliteration (written representation of the letters on the plates) or a vocalisation of the name. It is my understanding that in the north-eastern US in the early 19th, the "accent" was a lot more like that of their British cousins than it is today; and in most British dialects, the "R" phoneme is generally unheard unless it precedes a vowel. When the r follows a vowel it lengthens it. In other words, the "r" in "Parhoron" may have been intended as a signal to the reader that the first A was to sound like the A in "ah," not in "at."

Regards,

Pahoran/Parhoron (both of which sound the same where I live.)

Such as Irarq as opposed to eye-rack.

Posted

Unfortunately, none of these proposed etymologies work for Parhoron—the "correct spelling of the name," as Royal Skousen pointed out almost 15 years ago.

Skousen says that the greatest likelihood is that was originally Parhoron, but if not then Pahoron. However, as pointed out by the late William F. Albright, the dialectical differences make either -horon or -horan legitimate,* and there is no reason why the Book of Mormon scribes could not use spelling variants based on such dialectical differences. As it is Parhoron appears at least 6 times in the Original Manuscript (and one more time as a correction), and Parhoran once, while Pahoron appears 7 times (another as a correction), and Pahoran only as a correction a couple of times (see Skousen, The Critical Text of the Book of Mormon, vol. 4: Analysis of Textual Variants of the Book of Mormon, parts 1 - 6, Provo: FARMS, 2004-2009), IV:2635-37, VI:3579.

The Egyptian etymology begins the word with the masculine definite article P3 (the "3" is an alef or glottal stop, which often contains a kind of "R"), and is seen in other such Book of Mormon names as Paanchi, Pathros, Pacumeni, and Pachus, and there are even a couple of instances in which the feminine definite article is used in Book of Mormon proper names.

How did they show up? We know that Pathros was contained on the Bronze Plates of Laban, and it is possible that the others were as well.

* Albright, Yahweh and the Gods of Canaan, 138; Albright, “The Canaanite God Ḥaurôn (Ḥôrôn),” American Journal of Semitic Languages, 53/1 (Oct 1936), 1-12.

Posted

I was about to remind people that we don't do personal threads...

When I saw the title I thought they were referring to our Pahoran as well and thought oh no someone else chewing Pahoran out!

Posted

Pedro,

If I may be permitted, I have some methodological concerns about the way names such as Pahoran are defended linguistically. On the one hand, evidently one may ransack ancient Egyptian, Hebrew, Aramaic, and even Akkadian literature looking for names that sound like Book of Mormon names. One may even compare them to what names can be found in Mesoamerican texts. It doesn't seem to matter what periods these "parallel" names are instanced or how remote the cultural connection; thus, even a Greek name like Timothy appearing in the Book of Mormon can be defended. Also, if the names are close but not exact matches, this can count as a "hit" and the differences explained as occurring due to metathesis or elision (both of these have been invoked in the case of Pahoran) or other linguistic factors.

With all of these pools of data from which to draw and all of the explanatory devices available to discount apparent counterevidence, it would seem a foregone conclusion that diligent searching and creative use of materials can produce a seemingly reasonable Book of Mormon onomastics. But what has really been learned?

Posted

Without a clearer understanding of how Joseph Smith interacted with personal names on the plates, I think Rob Bowman is correct, in the end not much has been learned.

Posted (edited)

Pedro,

If I may be permitted, I have some methodological concerns about the way names such as Pahoran are defended linguistically. On the one hand, evidently one may ransack ancient Egyptian, Hebrew, Aramaic, and even Akkadian literature looking for names that sound like Book of Mormon names. One may even compare them to what names can be found in Mesoamerican texts. It doesn't seem to matter what periods these "parallel" names are instanced or how remote the cultural connection; thus, even a Greek name like Timothy appearing in the Book of Mormon can be defended. Also, if the names are close but not exact matches, this can count as a "hit" and the differences explained as occurring due to metathesis or elision (both of these have been invoked in the case of Pahoran) or other linguistic factors.

With all of these pools of data from which to draw and all of the explanatory devices available to discount apparent counterevidence, it would seem a foregone conclusion that diligent searching and creative use of materials can produce a seemingly reasonable Book of Mormon onomastics. But what has really been learned?

You bring up a lot of good points. I posted something on methodology earlier, see here: http://www.mormondia...__fromsearch__1

Here's also a better treatment on the subject. http://maxwellinstit...=8&num=2&id=222

I welcome any further suggestions you may have.

Edited by Pedro A. Olavarria
Posted

Pedro,

How frustrating. I was just about done with a nice post addressing in more specific and direct fashion your opening post, and I lost the whole thing. I'll try to reconstruct it later.

Posted

Pedro,

How frustrating. I was just about done with a nice post addressing in more specific and direct fashion your opening post, and I lost the whole thing. I'll try to reconstruct it later.

I know what that's like :wacko:

Posted (edited)

Pedro,

If I may be permitted, I have some methodological concerns about the way names such as Pahoran are defended linguistically. On the one hand, evidently one may ransack ancient Egyptian, Hebrew, Aramaic, and even Akkadian literature looking for names that sound like Book of Mormon names. One may even compare them to what names can be found in Mesoamerican texts. It doesn't seem to matter what periods these "parallel" names are instanced or how remote the cultural connection; thus, even a Greek name like Timothy appearing in the Book of Mormon can be defended. Also, if the names are close but not exact matches, this can count as a "hit" and the differences explained as occurring due to metathesis or elision (both of these have been invoked in the case of Pahoran) or other linguistic factors.

With all of these pools of data from which to draw and all of the explanatory devices available to discount apparent counterevidence, it would seem a foregone conclusion that diligent searching and creative use of materials can produce a seemingly reasonable Book of Mormon onomastics. But what has really been learned?

You are right to be skeptical and to suggest that searching for etymologies for Book of Mormon words of foreign origin ought to be done with rigor and balance. Individual instances of similarity shouldn't carry too much weight in the absence of overall patterns and systematic presentation.

That being said, it is also true that the late William F. Albright (who knew Hugh Nibley well) argued in written and signed statements that Book of Mormon Paanchi and Pahoran certainly passed the test of Egypticity -- he also expressed the same reservations you have expressed about the overall project of comparison.

The question which this (and other Egyptian correlations) ought to raise is Why would we find Egyptian names in the Book of Mormon? We have no record of Lehi & Nephi visiting Egypt. Indeed, Why are there Bronze Plates with Israelite scriptures engraved in Egyptian? How is it that Lehi & Nephi (and their successors) can read and write Egyptian? We have no record of either of them attending scribal training schools. Moreover, the Bible certainly gives no warrant for this sort of thing, even if we assume that Joseph-who-was-sold-into-Egypt and later Moses probably knew Egyptian language quite well. The Bible gives no outward hint that Israelite scribes knew and used Egyptian hieratic in the 8th and 7th centuries B.C., even though archeology now tells us that this was certainly the case+ (two weeks ago in San Francisco, at the annual Society of Biblical Literature meeting, David P. Wright even publicly noted that Israelite scribes certainly also knew and used Akkadian cuneiform*).

What is more, we can now see that the Nephite weights & measures system promulgated by Mosiah II (mentioned briefly in Alma 11) was an Egyptian system -- as was the case for the Judahite system# already familiar to Lehi & Nephi.

In the case of Paanchi (and other Pa- names), we ought to note that the name is quite common in ancient Egypt, including the noteworthy career of Pharaoh Piankhy, Dyn. 25, and of the High Priest Piankhy, Dyn. 21, not to mention apparent veiled use of the name in Genesis 41:45 (Paʿ enēaḥ = LXX -φαvηχ).** Only with a systematic approach can we hope to throw reliable light on the BofM onomasticon.

+ Anson F. Rainey, "The Saga of Eliashib," Biblical Archaeology Review, 13/2 (Mar-Apr 1987):37, 39.

* Wright in SBL session S21-205, Nov 21, 2011.

# Cf. Raz Kletter, Economic Keystones: The Weight System of the Kingdom of Judah (Sheffield Academic, 1998); Stefan Wimmer, Palästinisches Hieratisch: Die Zahl- und Sonderzeichen in der althebräischen Schrift (Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz, 2008).

** A. S. Yahuda, Language of the Pentateuch in Its Relation to Egyptian (Oxford Univ. Press, 1933)., 33-35.

Edited by Robert F. Smith
Posted (edited)

Pedro,

I will now try to reconstruct my detailed response to your opening post that I lost a few days ago.

I’ve read your post on the other thread concerning methodological controls for identifying the etymologies of Book of Mormon names. In that post you had suggested that etymologies should be tied to Hebrew or Egyptian, not to other languages. Yet in this thread you suggest an Akkadian etymology for the name Pahoran. Akkadian isn’t even one of the other languages that other LDS on that thread suggested should be considered. I suppose one might try to connect Akkadian to the Jaredites but this doesn’t seem plausible. Of course, Akkadian words and names might, hypothetically, have entered Israelite culture through Israelite contact with Mesopotamian society, but that connection seems rather weak. If this is allowed, we would have to allow every language of every nation with which the Israelites might have had even the most limited and indirect contact as possible sources of Book of Mormon name etymologies. I have already explained why I think that casting such a wide net, even if such etymologies cannot be absolutely disproven, is so likely to score accidental “hits” that the results cannot be regarded as reliably informative.

A key point in your other thread was the suggestion that proposed etymologies be supported by “convergences” in the text. In this thread, you propose that Pahoran is related to an Akkadian word meaning “to muster” (a troop or army) and offer as supporting evidence the fact that in Alma 59:3 Pahoran musters a group of men to augment Helaman’s army. I gather that this is an example of what you had in mind by a convergence. I should have addressed this reasoning in my first post here and will now try to do so.

My first objection to this argument is that there is no reason to regard Alma 59:3 as intended to give the etymology of the name Pahoran. The text doesn’t indicate that the name is associated or connected etymologically with the act of gathering men to augment Helaman’s armies. The putative original-language text of the Book of Mormon would have been something based on Hebrew or Egyptian or both. This means that the reader of such a “reformed Egyptian” text would have had no way to know that Pahoran was related to an Akkadian word, or even to know that the name meant gathering or mustering men for an army, unless the text said so. An author might well engage in word play with a name if it worked in his language, and we might of course not see it in English translation; but an author would hardly engage in word play meant to illuminate the meaning of a name if the associated word in the same language had no verbal similarity to the name. For example, in English the sentence “Mr. Bowman was an excellent archer” (a false statement, by the way!) contains an obvious word play, because the words bowman and archer are English synonyms. However, the equivalent sentence in German, Herr Bowman war ein ausgezeichneter bogenschütze, contains no word play discernible to a German reader unless he happens also to know English.

Furthermore, Alma 59:3 is an odd place to find an etymology or word play on the name Pahoran. The usual place to look for some indication of the meaning of a name is in the passage where it first occurs (e.g., this is the usual pattern in the Bible). But the name Pahoran first appears in Alma 50:40 and occurs seven more times in Alma 51 before reappearing in 59:3. If one looks for possible etymological “convergences” in every text where the name occurs, one has 32 different occurrences, each with various descriptions in their immediate contexts, in which to search. Now we are back to the fundamental problem with the method: so many and such diverse opportunities to score “hits” mean that it would be surprising if you didn’t find something from time to time. That is, if you search several ancient languages looking for names sounding like Pahoran with etymologies meaning something like judgment-seat, throne, peace, gather, contention, judge, division, retain, rejoice, governor, chosen, grieve, preserve, liberty, strong, restore, march, possession, and preach—all significant words found in texts referring to Pahoran—it doesn’t tell us anything reliable if you find something.

Looking at this issue from another angle, it seems to me that using Alma 59:3 in this way to explain the meaning of the name Pahoran actually works at cross-purposes to your intention. Your intention, I think, is to show that this particular Book of Mormon name has a plausible origin in ancient usage so as to support or defend the historicity of the Book of Mormon narrative. But an etymology related to the statement in Alma 59:3 about the adult Pahoran gathering men to augment Helaman’s armies doesn’t do this. In fact, it would suggest that Pahoran is a fictitious person, because presumably an historical Pahoran’s parents would not have given him that name in anticipation of this particular incident reported in Alma 59:3. Of course, if the text reported that an angel had instructed them to name their child Pahoran because he was going to do this great thing for his people as an adult, then that would be a different matter. Lacking such an explanatory context, we should not expect that the incident in Alma 59 has anything to do with the origin of the name that he had before it took place.

These are some reasons why I do not find your proposed Akkadian etymology of the name Pahoran plausible or likely.

Edited by Rob Bowman
Posted (edited)

Pedro,

I will now try to reconstruct my detailed response to your opening post that I lost a few days ago.

I’ve read your post on the other thread concerning methodological controls for identifying the etymologies of Book of Mormon names. In that post you had suggested that etymologies should be tied to Hebrew or Egyptian, not to other languages. Yet in this thread you suggest an Akkadian etymology for the name Pahoran. Akkadian isn’t even one of the other languages that other LDS on that thread suggested should be considered. I suppose one might try to connect Akkadian to the Jaredites but this doesn’t seem plausible. Of course, Akkadian words and names might, hypothetically, have entered Israelite culture through Israelite contact with Mesopotamian society, but that connection seems rather weak. If this is allowed, we would have to allow every language of every nation with which the Israelites might have had even the most limited and indirect contact as possible sources of Book of Mormon name etymologies. I have already explained why I think that casting such a wide net, even if such etymologies cannot be absolutely disproven, is so likely to score accidental “hits” that the results cannot be regarded as reliably informative.

A key point in your other thread was the suggestion that proposed etymologies be supported by “convergences” in the text. In this thread, you propose that Pahoran is related to an Akkadian word meaning “to muster” (a troop or army) and offer as supporting evidence the fact that in Alma 59:3 Pahoran musters a group of men to augment Helaman’s army. I gather that this is an example of what you had in mind by a convergence. I should have addressed this reasoning in my first post here and will now try to do so.

My first objection to this argument is that there is no reason to regard Alma 59:3 as intended to give the etymology of the name Pahoran. The text doesn’t indicate that the name is associated or connected etymologically with the act of gathering men to augment Helaman’s armies. The putative original-language text of the Book of Mormon would have been something based on Hebrew or Egyptian or both. This means that the reader of such a “reformed Egyptian” text would have had no way to know that Pahoran was related to an Akkadian word, or even to know that the name meant gathering or mustering men for an army, unless the text said so. An author might well engage in word play with a name if it worked in his language, and we might of course not see it in English translation; but an author would hardly engage in word play meant to illuminate the meaning of a name if the associated word in the same language had no verbal similarity to the name. For example, in English the sentence “Mr. Bowman was an excellent archer” (a false statement, by the way!) contains an obvious word play, because the words bowman and archer are English synonyms. However, the equivalent sentence in German, Herr Bowman war ein ausgezeichneter bogenschütze, contains no word play discernible to a German reader unless he happens also to know English.

Furthermore, Alma 59:3 is an odd place to find an etymology or word play on the name Pahoran. The usual place to look for some indication of the meaning of a name is in the passage where it first occurs (e.g., this is the usual pattern in the Bible). But the name Pahoran first appears in Alma 50:40 and occurs seven more times in Alma 51 before reappearing in 59:3. If one looks for possible etymological “convergences” in every text where the name occurs, one has 32 different occurrences, each with various descriptions in their immediate contexts, in which to search. Now we are back to the fundamental problem with the method: so many and such diverse opportunities to score “hits” mean that it would be surprising if you didn’t find something from time to time. That is, if you search several ancient languages looking for names sounding like Pahoran with etymologies meaning something like judgment-seat, throne, peace, gather, contention, judge, division, retain, rejoice, governor, chosen, grieve, preserve, liberty, strong, restore, march, possession, and preach—all significant words found in texts referring to Pahoran—it doesn’t tell us anything reliable if you find something.

Looking at this issue from another angle, it seems to me that using Alma 59:3 in this way to explain the meaning of the name Pahoran actually works at cross-purposes to your intention. Your intention, I think, is to show that this particular Book of Mormon name has a plausible origin in ancient usage so as to support or defend the historicity of the Book of Mormon narrative. But an etymology related to the statement in Alma 59:3 about the adult Pahoran gathering men to augment Helaman’s armies doesn’t do this. In fact, it would suggest that Pahoran is a fictitious person, because presumably an historical Pahoran’s parents would not have given him that name in anticipation of this particular incident reported in Alma 59:3. Of course, if the text reported that an angel had instructed them to name their child Pahoran because he was going to do this great thing for his people as an adult, then that would be a different matter. Lacking such an explanatory context, we should not expect that the incident in Alma 59 has anything to do with the origin of the name that he had before it took place.

These are some reasons why I do not find your proposed Akkadian etymology of the name Pahoran plausible or likely.

I agree 100%; I was just thinking aloud on Pahoran, hence the reference to methodology. I for one favor an Egyptian etymology for the reasons cited on my methodology post.

For example, in English the sentence “Mr. Bowman was an excellent archer” (a false statement, by the way!) contains an obvious word play, because the words bowman and archer are English synonyms. However, the equivalent sentence in German, Herr Bowman war ein ausgezeichneter bogenschütze, contains no word play discernible to a German reader unless he happens also to know English.

That's the point I'm trying to make with "textual control".

Edited by Olavarria
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