Rated R

[Saints Alive]

You misunderstood what I said. I did not serve in the military, that was my brother who served in the Marines in Viet Nam. I said I lived through it. I was raising a family and although eligible to be drafted I was not. However I am well aware of what that war was about. Please don't tell me I need to watch a Hollywood movie to be able to intelligently discuss that war.

Unless you have experienced war first hand, not on the sidelines, you have no clue what it is like. You cannot understand what it is like to see your second family die before your eyes by staying at home thousands of miles away from the front lines. Movies give a glimpse but they pale in comparison to the true horrors of war.

[ERayR]

Unless you have experienced war first hand, not on the sidelines, you have no clue what it is like. You cannot understand what it is like to see your second family die before your eyes by staying at home thousands of miles away from the front lines. Movies give a glimpse but they pale in comparison to the true horrors of war.

With a very close and dear brother in the middle of Viet Nam, daily putting his life in danger. I think I know a lot more about it than some hollywood producer with an agenda.

Edited November 29, 2011 by ERayR

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

If I had to choose between watching a really good Rated R movie like Braveheart for two hours and watching a two hour discussion among Mormons about whether it is okay to watch Rated R movies, I would choose the latter.

I watch what ever R rated show Cinepro watches.

Are you by change involved in cinematic productions?

Edited November 29, 2011 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Saints Alive]

With a very close and dear brother in the middle of Viet Nam, daily putting his life in danger. I think I know a lot more about it than some hollywood producer with an agenda.

It isn't the same thing as being there and the hollywood producers have advisors who were actually there, not some joker who thinks he knows what it was like because his brother was there.

[volgadon]

It isn't the same thing as being there and the hollywood producers have advisors who were actually there, not some joker who thinks he knows what it was like because his brother was there.

Right, so if a Hollywood producer has an advisor who was there and Erayr has a brother who was there, why is he in any less of a position to know?

[ERayR]

It isn't the same thing as being there and the hollywood producers have advisors who were actually there, not some joker who thinks he knows what it was like because his brother was there.

And there are still some who wonder how we got where we are in America today.

[thesometimesaint]

I thought Saving Private Ryan was a better representation.

[cinepro]

I thought Saving Private Ryan was a better representation.

I remember reading an interview with a soldier after "Band of Brothers" came out where he applauded the authenticity, but noted that the soldiers used better language in reality. This subject came up again when "The Pacific" was aired. According to this article (and the subsequent comments) it wasn't a "good representation" of how they actually spoke back then:

I dropped in on a good friend of mine one day at his office here in Springfield. Earl Morse is the founder of Honor Flight, and has been a friend of mine for a few years now. I knew that he had recently taken some WWII Pacific veterans to Washington D.C. by invitation, where they met Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg for a special viewing of The Pacific. Our conversation led to the HBO mini-series and my admitted reservations about the language, etc. Earl looked at me and said, “Now that’s interesting, because when we all came out of the viewing, I asked the veterans what they thought about what they had seen in the video.” Earl proceeded to tell me that all the men said that the scenery and the combat scenes were pretty much as they remembered them, but that when it came to the language they said, “…but we didn’t talk like that.” Earl went on to tell me that some of the veterans were a bit upset with the way they were portrayed using that kind of language and stated to him, “We were mostly just farm boys coming out of the depression, and we never used the f-word like that and we NEVER disrespected women by using bad language around them.”

Edited November 29, 2011 by cinepro

[LeSellers]

It isn't the same thing as being there and the hollywood producers have advisors who were actually there, not some joker who thinks he knows what it was like because his brother was there.

While I agree that the only way to expereience war is to experience war, it is not true that all "arm-chair" observers are equal.

As pointed out earlier, the agenda each brings to the forum is a deciding factor. Most movie producers (to a large extent) bring a war-is-he11-and-therefore-evil-in-and-of-itself vantage point. Most soldiers agree that war is he11, but they are wise enough to know that, in many cases, war is also necessary for all its wickedness. See Captain Moroni's Standard of Liberty.

My position on Viet Nam is that it was a bold, but manifestly misguided attempt to enforce freedom on people who were not culturally ready to accept and internalize it. Much the same could be said about the current war on terror (an oxymoron), although there is a case to be made that the Middle East and its volatility are clearly dangerous to USmerican interests and freedoms, although, as Ron Paul points out, not "clear and pressing dangers".

As a commander, my greatest concern was the soldier I heard say that he loved war because he loved killing people. The second worst was the captain who said he hoped for another war so he could get promoted. Both ought to have been ousted from the service for the good of the service, and for that of the country.

Lehi

[Brade]

A cup of coffee occasionally? What's the big deal?

Actually, yes, what's the big deal?

[volgadon]

and we NEVER disrespected women by using bad language around them.

That was a serious thing back then. Still is in Russia and Ukraine to some extent.

[ERayR]

I remember reading an interview with a soldier after "Band of Brothers" came out where he applauded the authenticity, but noted that the soldiers used better language in reality. This subject came up again when "The Pacific" was aired. According to this article (and the subsequent comments) it wasn't a "good representation" of how they actually spoke back then:

Quote

I dropped in on a good friend of mine one day at his office here in Springfield. Earl Morse is the founder of Honor Flight, and has been a friend of mine for a few years now. I knew that he had recently taken some WWII Pacific veterans to Washington D.C. by invitation, where they met Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg for a special viewing of The Pacific. Our conversation led to the HBO mini-series and my admitted reservations about the language, etc. Earl looked at me and said, “Now that’s interesting, because when we all came out of the viewing, I asked the veterans what they thought about what they had seen in the video.” Earl proceeded to tell me that all the men said that the scenery and the combat scenes were pretty much as they remembered them, but that when it came to the language they said, “…but we didn’t talk like that.” Earl went on to tell me that some of the veterans were a bit upset with the way they were portrayed using that kind of language and stated to him, “We were mostly just farm boys coming out of the depression, and we never used the f-word like that and we NEVER disrespected women by using bad language around them.”

This is correct. Most were very respectful of women and children and would apologize profusely if they sliped up and used profanity in their presence.

Edited November 29, 2011 by ERayR

[thesometimesaint]

cinepro:

While cuss words have been known for a long time now. I think society in general was better spoken then. As regards to war. When someone is shooting at you it is best not to give away your position by talking period. Let alone shouting cuss words.

[mtomm]

The R rating is bestowed often to give a movie more more panache, to make more money for the producers.

I believe it is unwise to allow a group of people who do not share our mores and values to decide what movies are acceptable and which are beyond the pale.

The original counsel was in For the Strength of Youth. This counsel has been revised, and now states something along the lines of "let the Spirit be your guide", while still suggesting that an R rating is a red flag.

When the rating system first came out, it was a fairly reliable means of measuring the morality of the content. It is no longer. Let your conscience be your guide.

Lehi

I really never thought I'd be agreeing with Lehi but by golly the day has arrived. I concur! It's a great day!

[ERayR]

cinepro:

While cuss words have been known for a long time now. I think society in general was better spoken then. As regards to war. When someone is shooting at you it is best not to give away your position by talking period. Let alone shouting cuss words.

Right, when someone is shooting at you you don't fight with words. Thats what they give you bullets for.

[thesometimesaint]

Bingo.

[volgadon]

I've never seen "Beaufort". I guess that disqualifies me from having a conversation on the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon. Knowing scores of people who were there is no match for the truth of cinema.

[ERayR]

I've never seen "Beaufort". I guess that disqualifies me from having a conversation on the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon. Knowing scores of people who were there is no match for the truth of cinema.

In order to have a conversation on this you have got to see the movie.

[volgadon]

cinepro:

While cuss words have been known for a long time now. I think society in general was better spoken then. As regards to war. When someone is shooting at you it is best not to give away your position by talking period. Let alone shouting cuss words.

In the famous last words of H. H. Munro, "Put out that b****y cigarette!" The German sniper aimed at the voice, not the light.

[mfbukowski]

Actually, yes, what's the big deal?

No big deal at all, unless you have promised not to do so. If you have, then your integrity is on the line. The issue is your promise, not the coffee.

Do you accept the prophet as a prophet or not- THAT is the issue.

The issue is obedience for its own sake. No I am not saying "blind obedience"- I am saying "obedience for its own sake".

There is much to be learned from obedience in small matters when we have covenanted to do so. I don't know about others, but I have covenanted to obey the prophet and develop my own testimony of each principle by doing so. My wife and I are film buffs to some extent, but we have decided not to go to R rated movies for no "better" reason than the prophet has asked us not to. And it is such a small thing, I am certain that our lives have been blessed for that obedience.

It's called "sacrifice". Obedience and sacrifice. Sound familiar?

If there was ever an instance where the prophet dictated some large principle with which I disagreed, and prayed about it, and decided it was against God's will for me, there is no way I would do it. But I have taken upon myself a covenant to obey the prophet in these matters- matters which frankly are pretty irrelevant to my life- I give up one thing for something better- to live better.

Kind of like NOT eating chocolate cake when you are on a diet. If you have decided to diet, should you cheat?

[mfbukowski]

Funny, my best friend was a counter-sniper in Viet Nam, and trained rangers in survival. That means his job was to go in and find and kill Vietnamese snipers, sometimes in hand to hand combat, while not getting killed himself.

For some odd reason, he totally avoids talking about it and never goes to movies about war. He thinks they are all laughable.

[BCSpace]

I do selectively watch R movies. For example, I don't understand how Gladiator gets an R while LOTR gets a PG-13. However, the counsel to not watch R-rated movies is official doctrine:

“We counsel you, young men, not to pollute your minds with such degrading matter, for the mind through which this filth passes is never the same afterward. Don’t see R-rated movies or vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive, or pornographic. Don’t listen to music that is degrading” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1986, p. 58; or Ensign, May 1986, p. 45

http://lds.org/manual/aaronic-priesthood-manual-3/lesson-26-blessings-of-chastity?lang=eng&query=r-rated

...and is a good rule of thumb imho.

[ERayR]

Funny, my best friend was a counter-sniper in Viet Nam, and trained rangers in survival. That means his job was to go in and find and kill Vietnamese snipers, sometimes in hand to hand combat, while not getting killed himself.

For some odd reason, he totally avoids talking about it and never goes to movies about war. He thinks they are all laughable.

I have a very good friend who was a helicopter crew chief who served two tours (one to keep his brother from having to go to Viet Nam). Very much the same.

[thesometimesaint]

My mom was pretty forthcoming about her experiences in WW2. My dad was much more tight lipped. i wish he'd have told us more about them.

[mfbukowski]

... However, the counsel to not watch R-rated movies is official doctrine...

So is that what this thread is about? Shall we change the title to "Should we obey official doctrine"?

Maybe the answers would be a bit different if that was the question.