Towards Naturalistic Deities

[mfbukowski]

It really honestly doesn't much matter to me if you call it monotheist or polytheist. I don't see that it makes any difference except for who lets you in their club.

But I really don't care if we get into the "monotheist club" or not. I don't understand why you care.

Edited December 18, 2011 by mfbukowski

[supersnail]

This isn't about a word. You could ask why I care if people are worshiping more than one god or not and will only ever worship the one true God.

Are we going to gaze at a more complexified image of "God" and let following God's oft-repeated commandments take a back seat to a worship of technology under the pretext of "humanism" and carrying out apotheosis on earth? I do have concern about this. I don't think that describes Mormonism, and certainly no Mormon invented the worship of technology. It is found in the spirit of the surrounding secular culture.

I imagine you would also disagree with those who are trying to get into the "Christian" club or those trying to get cozy with certain mainstream Christians by altering their theology or professed beliefs to match those of, say, Evangelicals. Presumably, you also disagree with those who are trying to get in the same clubs that atheists and secularists are in.

I get that there are problems with traditional theodicies, but it is possible to throw out the baby with the bath water. I'm not trying to get non-Mormons to accept Mormons into the "monotheist club," though. It's clear many non-Mormon Christians aren't monotheists in the first place.

When I in different ways on this message board have raised doing goods works and shunning idols, there's been an implied critique of the mainstream.

Spencer W. Kimball said ("The False Gods We Worship"), "The Lord gave us a choice world and expects righteousness and obedience to his commandments in return. But when I review the performance of this people in comparison with what is expected, I am appalled and frightened. Iniquity seems to abound. The Destroyer seems to be taking full advantage of the time remaining to him in this, the great day of his power. Evil seems about to engulf us like a great wave, and we feel that truly we are living in conditions similar to those in the days of Noah before the Flood." Though he recognized Mormons weren't invincible to temptation and idolatrous tendencies and didn't always "leave off the worship of modern-day idols," I doubt that the former President was trying to ingratiate himself in a conciliatory way with the mainstream.

To answer your question on a more personal level, I probably wouldn't be here if I didn't perceive Mormonism as more monotheistic than other religions. Take that for what it's worth. I'm not saying I'm representative of all former atheists, but I do believe the issue of idolatry, and the failure of secular humanism to deal with it, may be significant in the conversion process of many atheists whether they are as conscious of these issues as I am or not.

Edited December 18, 2011 by supersnail

[Kerry A. Shirts]

Quite a post! Lots to think on. Thanks Jeremy...... I have skimmed most, and reading the replies. I see what you are getting at, very interesting. I have been seriously trying to read science honestly from the scientists points of view instead of from religious thinking folks, so I can get the accurate view they present. I think this was well done. I am, as always, ALWAYS re-thinking my thinking, I think - LOL! We shall talk some more on this.

[Stone holm]

Jeremy, well done -- although I didn't manage to plow through the entire post (will save it for a Sunday afternoon), I read quite a bit. I believe some of the issues may not actually, or should not actually, plague Mormons much. But, I came to the Church without having been indoctrinated in another faith, so I didn't carry a lot of baggage with me. It has always seemed to me that we do not necessarily believe in an omniscient God in the micro sense, because I refuse to believe that He sent anyone down here knowing for an incontrovertible fact that we would fail. He knew perhaps the probabilities as to whether any specific one of us would fail, and He unquestionably knew that some of us would fail. I believe the omniscience of God and free will to be incompatible concepts. (That is my personal belief.) I also have never believed that God is omnipotent in the sense that He can do anything He wants. I believe that He cannot force anyone to go to heaven, and that He is bound by certain laws which if He violated He would cease to be God. I am not even sure if He created the entire Universe or just a part of it -- I don't know if when He was born a mortal it was in this Universe or not, but it seems to me that given nigh unto Kolob is within this Universe I suspect He was. Because all of us who reach exaltation are destined to remain on this planet after it is Celestialized, it goes to reason that He stayed on the planet He was born upon when it was Celestialized, which suggests ad infinitum. Now some might object that, well this isn't much of a god you hold in reverence as your Heavenly Father. To these I would say, He is the only God I know of, and it looks like He is trying to do something very special for me, and I don't see anyone else trying to do that for me -- so you go worship an idea, I'll stick with Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ. Under this kind of a belief system, a lot of those questions become sort of unimportant don't you think? By the way I gave your article and comment a bump, congratulations.