What About Love, Don'T You Want Someone To Care About You?

[MorningStar]

Also, I think it's fine for some people, but if something happened to my husband, I wouldn't participate on an Internet dating site in a million bagillion years. I was approached by a new friend in my ward who asked if I knew so and so because her mother-in-law was chatting with him on an LDS singles site. I said, "Yeah, I know him. He's married." He used his real name and his photo.

I really wouldn't want to have to weed through people like that. Eh, I wouldn't want to remarry anyway.

[Kenngo1969]

My daughter teases me from time to time about the best friends I have never met.

That’s the good, honest, uplifting, nonpredatory side of being on line.

Some of my deepest relationships have been completely restricted to online.

While I completely understand the school of thought which says that absent IRL contact, there is no “relationship” (perhaps that school of thought doesn’t “obtain” unless the relationship potentially is a “romantic” one); and while I do believe it’s impossible truly to tell (definitively) whether one has established a romantic relationship without some face-to-face interaction; I can say with some degree of certainty that I have experienced at least the beginnings of a romantic relationship online. (And no, I’m not just talking about infatuation, either … )

As for other fora and other contexts, if my purposes for being on this site (and its predecessors) for the past eleven years or so were strictly apologetic in nature, I would have given up visiting it ten years ago. (There truly is “nothing new under the sun” with respect to critics of the Church and the attacks and tactics they employ.) The camaraderie is the main thing that keeps me coming back. I have received encouragement at critical times and in critical ways (and not necessarily even concerning my testimony of the Gospel), even though many of the people who have provided that encouragement are probably blissfully unaware of the role they have played in my life.

In some ways with me being quite shy, it is easier to open up online than not,

I can relate, at least to some degree. While shyness is not necessarily my default mode, and while there are certainly widely varying degrees of shyness, it does depend on the nature of the interaction. Fill up EnergySolutions Arena (the home venue of the National Basketball Association’s Utah Jazz; that’s 19,911 people) and don’t tell me what the topic is for my 40-minute presentation until 15 minutes before it’s scheduled to begin, and I’ll handle that better than if you were to say, “Hey, Ken, there’s a good-looking girl over there. Why don’t you go ask her out?”

Even in a Church in which 1 Samuel 16:7 nearly is—putatively, at least—another article of our faith, I’ve found that the principle embodied in that scripture often (or at least sometimes) doesn’t translate well from principle into practice. I’ve gone out on dates with girls to find, much to my chagrin, that they said “Yes” not out of a genuine desire to get to know me, but rather to “spare my feelings” (not that many of them would ever admit to that, of course!). I wish all of the eligible women in the Church who hold this view had a flashing neon sign that activates on cue and says, “Don’t ask me out; I’d rather not date disabled guys. Thanks!” I wouldn’t think less of anyone with that attitude; I certainly have a lot more respect for them than I do for women who can’t own that attitude, and instead say “Yes” simply to spare my feelings. (Maybe this is unfair, but I think that attitude is less about sparing my feelings than it is about them not owning theirs.)

Yes, beginning a relationship online is a double-edged sword. Yes, at some point, I do have to bring up “The Elephant in the Room.” However, since she can’t see me, she’s less prone to make snap judgments about what I can and cannot do based on her assumptions about my disability, and the Elephant in the Room isn’t trumpeting loudly every time I try to start a conversation with her! If I don’t bring up the Elephant in the Room soon enough, however, I risk her feeling betrayed: “You just … didn’t think it was worth mentioning?” My latest on-line interaction was going as well as could be expected, the Elephant in the Room notwithstanding. (She knows as much about my disability as a lack of face-to-face interaction and somewhat of a language barrier will allow …)

Edited September 23, 2011 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

I've seen some online courtships work out. But I've also seen some disasters, the worst being a case when a woman was raped by her date.

I hope, if she were to try to rape me, I would be able to fight her off. Seriously, though, no ... no one deserves to be raped. Women need to do less listening to their emotions (which most of them are already good at) and more listening to their instincts (which some of them are not so good at).

Others included a quick marriage followed by domestic violence ...

There's no excuse for abuse.

... including one couple where the guy failed to mentioned he had lost his job and hadn't paid his mortgage for a while. She was mad. He said, "If I told you, you wouldn't have married me." Aaaaaaaaaah!!!!!

That's why I haven't done much dating lately: I'm not much of a "catch," support-wise. I just got word that I've been offered a position: it's only part-time with no benefits, but .... it's in my chosen field!!!!!! Whodathunk?! It's a start. Maybe in a couple years, I can prevent people who review my resume from saying, "His education is in one field, but all of his experience is in another field. What's up with that?"

[Calm]

I hope it goes well for you, Ken. I know it's been very frustrating for you.

[Messenger]

I met a gal successfully on E-Harmony years ago. She was fun, and we did indeed have a lot in common. She didnt live that far a way, so after cooresponding for a few months, we decided to meet at a restaurant in a nearby mall. We went on dates every week for nearly three months and then I met her parents. Turns out that her father was the stake patriarch. All of us seemed to really like each other. And her parents really liked me, which is huge for me. I had tons of respect for him - he was disabled, so those that know me know how I feel about that. After another month or so, things started to cool off. She started to realize that I wasnt rich enough for her. She was pretty clear what she wanted in a man, someone that could provide her with a 4000 square foot home. That wasnt something that E-Harmony filters out! LOL . After dating about 5 months or so, for two or three times a week, she started calling me her boyfriend in public. I went ahead and changed my profile to 'commited in a relationship' on E-Harmony, which they in turn asked her if she was 'commited in a relationship' to me. She said no. Then I found out that she was also courting a few other guys. To me that seemed an odd difference to tell your parents that we are courting and wouldnt commit to that in public, only in private. So, I broke it off. Dont know what ever happened to her. But our last conversation was an email saying goodbye. Anyways, I had no regrets for the time we spent with each other.

I would say that people we date always seem to have some duality - a side to them they dont wish others to know. This is amplified with on-line dating. I dont belong to E-Harmony anymore - I pretty much decided that wasnt for me.

When I transitioned from email and phone to meeting her, I wrote her this poem .... it worked.

Hello Christy, I’ve had something on my mind.

So, I thought I’d say it in this simple little rhyme.

I think you are a really good person and pretty,

and I’m not sure that you would want to even go out with me.

But, my friends say I’ve got to get out more and see the sights,

which doesn’t just include going to all the 35+ singles activity nights!

To tell you the truth, deep down inside

I know living for myself without a family, is just a lie.

You know it’s not easy at age over 45;

everyone is so concerned about trust & security including me.

I like my life, and I could settle for just member friends.

But that voice inside thinks this is ludicrous and maybe a bit insane.

Every time I think it, about going out on a dinner date.

I think of you, and that thought won’t go away.

So, you can put me out of my misery, and just say no.

Then I’ll be off the hook and the thought won’t come anymore.

If you want, put down that book, & have dinner and talk to someone.

Let’s discuss things more substantial and interactive than eharmony.com.

If you want then say yes, I promise it will be a blessing and I’ll be good!

If nothing else, we can just have some fine food with some class!

Calamari perhaps? Steak or chicken it is with sparking cider in a glass,

or just a salad with Ranch dressing and some sourdough bread sticks?

Ok, you probably have the facts. I’ve been salesman of sorts all my life.

But in this case, the food is on me and there is nothing for you to buy.

Thinking of you: until next time.

[ERayR]

I know several relationships that have lasted almost ten years after meeting online. Hardest part appears to be working out the distance issues.

Ah yes it is possible but I have seen a dozen that have been bad, some of them very bad. I just don't think it is worth the risk. I would say that meeting online might be OK but take the time for a good long in person courtship.

[Kenngo1969]

Ah yes it is possible but I have seen a dozen that have been bad, some of them very bad. I just don't think it is worth the risk. I would say that meeting online might be OK but take the time for a good long in person courtship.

Oh, that's fair enough, indeed. I'm not suggesting that a couple should be able to conduct the majority of their courtship on line, conduct a minimal portion of it face-to-face, and thereby be able to establish an enduring relationship. Whatever the length of the on-line interaction, I'm all for a leisurely in-person courtship. (Forgive my use of the word conduct; I don't mean to make the whole transaction sound like a Church meeting! )

[rpn]

I think it depends. I tried to do it when I was single, but there was just too much lying and not enough space to develop real knowledge of the other person. I also know a number (in fact all but one of the online ones I know) that ended up quite awfully. The mistake I think they made WAS falling in love online. Don't do that until you have spent enough time together, and gotten to know enough of the other person's live to see how they really live, not just how they talk about living.

[Kenngo1969]

I think it depends. I tried to do it when I was single, but there was just too much lying and not enough space to develop real knowledge of the other person. I also know a number (in fact all but one of the online ones I know) that ended up quite awfully. The mistake I think they made WAS falling in love online. Don't do that until you have spent enough time together, and gotten to know enough of the other person's live to see how they really live, not just how they talk about living.

Again, I'm not suggesting that the whole "transaction" of a relationship (or even most of it) can, or should, be carried out on line:

Me: "Well, weve txtd 4 quite some time now, and appear to be quite cmpatible. Will u marry me?"

She: "UR right. We do appear to be quite cmpatible. Sure. Y not?"

As I implied to ERayR, above, at some point the distance has to be bridged and on-line interaction has to become IRL interaction, at which point I'm all for a leisurely courtship. We're not all hormone-driven recent ex-teenagers!

[Kenngo1969]

I hope it goes well for you, Ken. I know it's been very frustrating for you.

Thanks, Cal!

[Messenger]

1. Do you think it’s possible to fall in love with someone you met on line?

Possible but unlikey

2. With the above caveats in mind as well as others too numerous to mention, do you think it’s wise?

Just as wise as anything else. There are always precautions to take I suppose. But that probably applies to the ladies a bit more.

3. If you don’t mind sharing, has it ever happened to you?

Already shared above. I definately fell in love with her and her family.

4. What role did the Spirit play in your relationship?

I know this sounds bad, and I say this by also saying that I have met some great ladies on forums that have the spirit, but thats always been friendship. That being said, to be honest, I have been dissapointed with the ladies I have met in person to whom I had hopes to have a dating relationship with, and found they are lacking in the spiritual department. I dont know why that is. I mean there have been times when the ladies I have dated, when we both feel the spirit, but it always seems to go right out the door when hard choices are to be made between the spirit and something else. And I am honest enough with myself to admit that I am not always in tune, but when I feel it, others feel it around me, and I act on it. I've been curious why the ones I have dated dont. Because I am nearly 50 years old now, I must not be from Venus or Mars, because I cant seem to relate my spiritual experiences to others that I date without turning it into a competition.

5. How did the relationship develop, for example, how long did your correspond/on what subjects/etc.? Already answered above.

6. What medium facilitated your contact (e.g., LDS Promise, Match.com, E-Harmony, et cetera)? I used E-Harmony as mentioned in another post.

7. How much distance was between you? 5-10 miles

8. At what point did you meet in real life? about a month later.

9. What ultimately happened to the relationship? She wanted thing like a huge house, and couldnt commit to the relationship in public, only in private. This lead to a trust issue with me. I backed out.

10. Is there anything you’d care to add? I still have hope of meeting someone that I can share a spiritual experience with. But to be honest, Im not sure how that can be done in a relationship. I mean, you would think it could. To me it makes sence that it could. And, to me that would end my search when someone was so in tune to the spirit, that they actually let it guide them in the relationship. Im not sure they build them like that anymore. Maybe we are more alike then disalike. Perhaps I do the same thing, or at least it looks that way from the outside. Dunno. But it would be nice to figure it all out someday.

The only think left I have to say is coment on this... Yes, it would be nice to be emtionally loved by someone you can chat with, hold her hand, comfort her, and who would do the same with me. But I will say this, the price of being with someone that is dishonest with the Lord, or me, or constantly disrespects both, doesnt seem worth it to be in my inner circle. Maybe that's selfish of me, but Im not sure 100% Charity is a good thing to judge a marriage by. My gut says it has to be give and take. When all we do is give, I'm not sure I would survive that kind of relationship. Actually, I already know that I would not from personal experience.

15 years ago when I was married, our ward had a huge divorce rate. There were directives from the stake of the evils of divorce. This simply led to isolation of those who had been divorced and a separation in the ward. Back then, there was no help for people who asked for help before the divorce. I did, and there was none from the local ward that would or could help. I remember getting laughed at by my Bishop when I did. So when it happens, Im not sure there isnt a shared blame. Thankfully, we have the Spirit of the Lord to support us, even when Humanity does not. In the end, I am the only one that is active in my immediate family. My ex-wife is not, my son or daughter. And, further, I was not the one to leave the family. But I was the one that was blamed even though later I found out about her affair with my next door neighbor. Perhaps its just humanity - we desire that which we can not attain and we demonize that which we dont wish to understand - Im not sure how that solves the problem - perhaps thats why the problem isnt solved yet.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Messenger

[oats]

I've gone out with a number of girls who I met online. My preference is that I meet them with as few preconceptions as possible. I only find out enough to know that they don't meet criteria that make them completely incompatible.

Online interaction so often leaves a different taste than real life interaction so I figure it's nearly a shot in the dark, anyhow. Might as well build from the ground up with no prejudgment or false expectations. I think what rpn said about not falling in love before meeting is very wise.

It's efficiency is comparable to knocking doors for missionary work. It fills time, has low chance of success, but can lead to something good. The advantage is that you know the person wants to spend 1 on 1 time and that somewhere in their mind they are open to a future relationship.

My favourite part about dating girls I meet online is that I am never nervous. It is easy to be completely genuine. I have few preconceptions, hardly any time invested and the ability to easily walk away if we're incompatible. I'm not sure how the dynamic with distance relationships could ever work. It's a big investment, a big gamble, and you must have to be able to cut losses easily. Not my style Too much commitment before anything really starts. By sheer chance I'm sure there are successful matches that don't require too much force to keep together.

Edited October 3, 2011 by oats