God And People To Baptize

[Duncan]

When I first came out into the mission field the Mission President said that there were X amount of people to baptize every sunday and that number came from the Area Presidency and "we all know where that came from" Every sunday it was the same number. I fully believed that every week the Area Presidency prayed about a number of people that God has said to them that this number of people are waiting for the missionaries to baptize. I think we hit that number maybe once. We used to have all meetings on P-days for the first 4 months of my mission but it went on before I got there and let me tell you the leaders gave it to you if you didn't baptize and get that number. Elder John Madsen of the 70 put a stop to that P-day meeting business. I beat myself up and worked so hard to teach and baptize, I wasn't the best out there for sure in trying to get this number because I believed that God had told the Area Presidency who told the Mission president who told the APs and on down the line to us and that I wasn't a good enough missionary to do my part. I did teach and baptize but apparently according to this system not nearly enough. I can't recall at what point that system changed but it did so I didn't know what to believe then and kind of still don't. Like all of a sudden last week X amount of peopel were ready but things changed and now its whoever you have committed which is way less then that what last week's number was. Does God have in mind that X amount of people in a given area is all set to go to receive the missionaries and join the Church and does he give that number to anyone? I know God knows all things and who would be receptive and whatnot but is there a number he has in mind or what? Could it be that maybe only 1 person would join the Church despite all your efforts?

[Storm Rider]

When I first came out into the mission field the Mission President said that there were X amount of people to baptize every Sunday and that number came from the Area Presidency and "we all know where that came from" Every Sunday it was the same number. I fully believed that every week the Area Presidency prayed about a number of people that God has said to them that this number of people are waiting for the missionaries to baptize. I think we hit that number maybe once. We used to have all meetings on P-days for the first 4 months of my mission but it went on before I got there and let me tell you the leaders gave it to you if you didn't baptize and get that number. Elder John Madsen of the 70 put a stop to that P-day meeting business. I beat myself up and worked so hard to teach and baptize, I wasn't the best out there for sure in trying to get this number because I believed that God had told the Area Presidency who told the Mission president who told the APs and on down the line to us and that I wasn't a good enough missionary to do my part. I did teach and baptize but apparently according to this system not nearly enough. I can't recall at what point that system changed but it did so I didn't know what to believe then and kind of still don't. Like all of a sudden last week X amount of people were ready but things changed and now its whoever you have committed which is way less then that what last week's number was. Does God have in mind that X amount of people in a given area is all set to go to receive the missionaries and join the Church and does he give that number to anyone? I know God knows all things and who would be receptive and whatnot but is there a number he has in mind or what? Could it be that maybe only 1 person would join the Church despite all your efforts?

As you say, God knows all things, but he will never cast aside free agency and he does not guide our every action and choice. If you are asking does God know what will happen; then I would say yes he does. Does he share that with his servants on earth? Rarely is there a need for such prophecies.

In my personal opinion, these type of goals are worthless because they focus on the wrong things. Baptism is the normal reaction to gaining a personal testimony. The missionary's main objective is to introduce the message of the restored gospel of Jesus the Christ and to bear witness. The more opportunities an individual has to interact with truth and the Spirit the higher the probability there is they will enter the waters of baptism.

Mission Presidents are not perfect or are they very effective at prophecy. Too often the Church has had mission leaders to have done their best and still fallen short. Would that we each understand the proper priority of all things, but unfortunately we all can be confused at times. In time we will all come to a proper understanding of things; until that time, each missionary must learn how to be the best they can be. Truth is not withheld from any individual that seeks it. Out of the mouth of babes great truths are revealed. It is not always our elders who do the best teaching.

[Storm Rider]

As an aside, my second mission president was one of the most uninspired men I have ever met. He was a good man, but he could no more understand the Spirit than a rock. I do believe he was called of God, but I also feel he was called for his own salvation and not for the purpose of leading the missionaries. Duncan, be at peace. They were just men who tried to do their best and fell short and chose poorly. They were not God and it was not God that spoke through them at every moment.

You did your best and our Father knows your efforts and your heart. Put your burden down and walk away free of such troubling thoughts; it is a weight you need not carry any longer. You served an honorable mission and our Father is proud of you for doing so.

[Garden Girl]

Duncan.... this type of thing really bothers me... I don't believe God gives a set number of people. Rather, I think this was a number the mission pres took upon himself to impose. And the fact that this practice was changed indicates IMO that this was the case.

I agree with Storm Rider... of course missionaries should do their very best to teach and bear testimony, and let the Spirit work with them. They should not have some "number" hanging over them and feel guilty if they don't reach it. Not at all.

GG

[Arkholt]

I was fortunate to have two amazing mission presidents who were never concerned with numbers, but with helping people come to a knowledge of the gospel in the best way possible. Unfortunately, I seemed to always have APs and ZLs who were obsessed with numbers. My mission presidents' advice was always to just ignore the numbers and do the work. If you do the work, but you don't get the numbers, so what? Success in missionary work isn't in how many people you baptize; success in missionary work is in preaching the gospel. Did you preach the gospel today? Then you were a good missionary.

[Maidservant]

I think the idea of numbers goals is believed to be effective in inspiring the male energies to work hard, yes: that is, to have something to shoot for. So anything that is "inspiring" is fair game as a method or tool to accomplish the real work.

But I am like you, I don't know that it is as effective as it would seem at first glance.

Every mission is different anyway. My son has had two people at two different times come up to him at church that he never met saying, "I want to be baptized." And he replies, "Super! Let's teach you first!" Also, when they do a baptism of a family, the numbers tend to be high since the families tend to be large or at least decent sized. So he will have 11 baptisms one weekend (two families), 15 another weekend, etc. (BTW, this is a South American mission). In fact, he has been out for almost a year, and has been on such a roll, such great spirit, such great harvest in these areas . . . and now this week is probably the first time they have had to LOOK REALLY HARD for someone, and it's kind of a new feeling to him, he has a great attitude on it, but I'm sure it's also kind of disconcerting for him. So you just can't account for things like this based on the efforts of the missionary. These areas had some wonderful families ready to be found, and my son has the privilege to participate. But it doesn't mean you can compare who worked harder versus another mission that simply has other dynamics and other kind of people who may not be open to the gospel.

[Garden Girl]

I was fortunate to have two amazing mission presidents who were never concerned with numbers, but with helping people come to a knowledge of the gospel in the best way possible. Unfortunately, I seemed to always have APs and ZLs who were obsessed with numbers. My mission presidents' advice was always to just ignore the numbers and do the work. If you do the work, but you don't get the numbers, so what? Success in missionary work isn't in how many people you baptize; success in missionary work is in preaching the gospel. Did you preach the gospel today? Then you were a good missionary.

And don't forget... many times even though someone may not be baptized at that time, "seeds" have been planted. And over time may result in a baptism some time later. Sometimes missionaries lay the foundation but it takes a while for the whole structure to be completed. So missionaries should never feel like just because they didn't get a baptism right then, that they failed. They don't know but what sometime down the road the person they taught will turn around.

When I was inactive, through the years I had some pretty strong promptings by the Spirit that I needed to get back on the path... but it took several years until I finally heeded those promptings and returned to Church. That was 15 years ago, and here I am, stronger than ever.

from the beach on a day when Fall is really in the air... sigh...

GG

[HeatherAnn]

And don't forget... many times even though someone may not be baptized at that time, "seeds" have been planted. And over time may result in a baptism some time later. Sometimes missionaries lay the foundation but it takes a while for the whole structure to be completed. So missionaries should never feel like just because they didn't get a baptism right then, that they failed. They don't know but what sometime down the road the person they taught will turn around.

When I was inactive, through the years I had some pretty strong promptings by the Spirit that I needed to get back on the path... but it took several years until I finally heeded those promptings and returned to Church. That was 15 years ago, and here I am, stronger than ever.

from the beach on a day when Fall is really in the air... sigh...

GG

Good points.

What is baptism anyway - if one is not really ready to commit?

Baptism is like a marriage certificate... blue print of intent... but it doesn't make the character or the marriage.

"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted." -Albert Einstein

[The Nehor]

When someone was obsessed with numbers my Mission President pointed out how few Jesus got and how Isaiah was told in his missionary calling that virtually everyone would refuse to listen to him. Nephi couldn't convert his brothers, Noah saved only his immediate family despite having centuries to preach, Paul could barely leave an area without having to shoot off letters to keep any retention numbers at all. Alma was thrown out of cities without success. Aaron and his brothers saved only one Nephite dissenter despite their other successes. Adam lost almost all of his children despite being the greatest being outside Christ to take mortality in this world. Mormon's missionary efforts seem to have failed so badly he was ordered to stop lest it get him killed. The Three Nephites couldn't prevent wholesale apostasy despite having obvious supernatural protection as proof of the power of their God.

Art thou greater then them?

Yes, the field is white in our time and there will be successes but let us not pretend that hard work and faithful service will guarantee results when prophetic leaders with more priesthood key, experience, and seasoning then any 19 year old boy suffered setbacks and disappointments. I sometimes wonder if number nuts and goal setting fiends even read about missionary work in the scriptures.

[Storm Rider]

I read the last few posts and I was reminded of an old mission saying, "Stats, stats, stats, we are out for goals not for souls". This issue has been a prioritizing problem for missionaries for many years. It ebbs and flows throughout all missions of the Church. Some are able to prioritize better than others and learn to report on their past week while focusing on the great principles of the gospel.