Are Missionaries Still Told To Ignore 'No Soliciting' Signs?

[Doug the Hutt]

Back in the day I remember my Mission President telling us in a Zone Conference essentially to feign ignorance on those "no soliciting" signs -- you know, because we weren't *selling* something. I even remember a few weeks later making that exact case with an apartment complex manager:

Manager: You guys have to leave. There is no soliciting allowed here.

Me: "But we're not *selling* anything!"

[edit] Review the board guidelines, Doug. [edit]

Seems we left but came back again another day, trying to keep ourselves under the radar.

I knew in my heart two things:

1. soliciting means more than peddling overpriced high school football fundraising products, biodegradable all-purpose household cleaners, free one-room-carpet-cleaning or leather-bound-codices-of-ultimate-knowledge. It absolutely means the selling and promoting of ideas, which is exactly what we were doing. And if you compare the financial impact of buying a discount card for Dominoes Pizza and committing 10% of your earnings for the rest of your life to the LDS Church then you would retain about hundreds of thousands times as much money by buying from the the enterprising youth standing at your front door than by betting baptized in the One True Church.

2. Everybody needs to hear the Gospel, and by darn we were going to deliver the good word whether they wanted it or not. What good is their usage of free agency when they do stupid stuff like shut themselves off from hearing The True Gospel?

At the time I felt justified in disobeying explicit directives from people not wanting solicitors bothering them because I was obeying my Mission President (and boy let me tell you I was terrified of disobeying him -- whole generations could be affected if nobody got baptized because I was a disobedient missionary). But that sentiment didn't last long, and I've always believed that we should have ignored his intentional equivocation.

So I want to know, am I alone in this type of experience? Did you have a similar experience? Do the missionaries today have to go through a similar internal fight between obeying the Mission President and complying with the obvious wishes of people just wanting their home to be unmolested by door-to-door-belief-pushers?

[bluebell]

In my mission, nothing was ever said about the 'no soliciting' signs-not by the mission president anyway. The consensus of the missionaries was that since we weren't selling anything, they didn't apply.

If i had to guess i'd say that about 80-90% of the doors we knocked on had one and out of all the tracting i did, i think i only had 2 people who actually were upset that we ignored the sign. I had a handful of people who had the signs and yet were excited we were there and ended up taking the discussions. Most were indifferent (the signs seemed to be a given in certain areas and i think a lot of people forgot that they had such signs on their homes since they were fixed to security metal screen doors and often looked like they had been there since the home was built).

If that taught me anything on my mission it's that no two people seem to interpret those signs the same way.

Regardless though, i can't say that i'm sorry i ignored them, since i met people who wanted to meet me and hear my message even while having such a sign on their door.

Edit to add: We never ignored the 'no soliciting' signs at apartment buildings or mobile home parks. We never tracted those.

Edited August 2, 2011 by bluebell

[Ahab]

1. soliciting means ... the selling and promoting of ideas, which is exactly what we were doing.

Promoting ideas is not selling them, just as advertising commercials on television isn't the selling of those products they are advertising.

To "sell" something is to exchange what you are "selling" for money, and neither the gospel nor the Church nor God is for sale, not even when you "pay" your tithes and offerings as you should be.

[Duncan]

We had a zone conf. and the visiting speaker was a Stake Pres. in the mission who also happened to be a Police Chief and he told us to ignore them so I always did. A funny incident though that happened to some other elders was that this lady called the cops on them told them and she had a no soliciting sign and the cops came out and said something like "oh it's you guys," and the cops talked to the lady and if you don't want mormon missionaries coming by then put a sign on the door saying that so the elders felt vindicated! Plus too, a lot of LAPD were members anyways so they always stuck up for us!

[kolipoki09]

My trainer told me to ignore the signs, and I never heard either of my mission presidents mention them.

The city of Dallas (and a number of surrounding suburban communities) had laws prohibiting soliciting on certain holidays, which included Easter, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas, as well as certain hours during the day where soliciting was forbidden. When I brought these rules to the attention of my second Mission President during a meeting, he shrugged them off in spite of the fact that the soliciting laws included the "Canvassing Clause."

When we were told by our ZL's that we weren't allowed to go to a ward football game on Thanksgiving because it was an "excellent day to go tracting with all the families at home," I rehearsed the 12th Article of Faith and was reported to my Mission President.

When Christmas came around, the policy changed and we weren't encouraged to go tracting. After I returned home, nearly all of the policies of which I raised issues with were changed (partly because we had a green MP, and partly because I wasn't the only one who raised issues with them).

If I would have known that someone with a "No Soliciting" sign could have pressed charges against me, I think I would have acted less like a victim when their reaction was less than cordial. Regardless, I consider myself fortunate that no one did, and that for the most part, Texans are friendly people (especially the Wright's in Denton).

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Of all of the no soliciting signs in my mission no one ever got mad. THe only person that did had a home made "no peddling sign". We should have not knocked but we did. She came to the door with a gun and told us to get off her property. We did over step our bounds then.

As far as soliciting goes, if you are not selling something then "no solicitation sings" do not apply, it seems to the people I talked to, anyway. Technically, we were soliciting, but most people understand it to mean trying to sell you something. And that is the issue people have. If people don't want to be bothered either put up a "no trespassing violators will be prosecuted" sign or a "no peddling" sign.

It absolutely means the selling and promoting of ideas,

Which as you know, the LDS missionaries were not doing. We were not selling our beliefs or asking for money. And no, promoting an idea is not one of the definitions of solicit. The closest one could get to is this definition.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/solicit

: to try to obtain by usually urgent requests or pleas <solicited donations>

or this one

to urge (as one's cause) strongly

However, money is used in most of the examples. So in most examples listed money seems to be exchanged for a good or service.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[bluebell]

My trainer told me to ignore the signs, and I never heard either of my mission presidents mention them.

The city of Dallas (and a number of surrounding suburban communities) had laws prohibiting soliciting on certain holidays, which included Easter, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas, as well as certain hours during the day where soliciting was forbidden. When I brought these rules to the attention of my second Mission President during a meeting, he shrugged them off in spite of the fact that the soliciting laws included the "Canvassing Clause."

When we were told by our ZL's that we weren't allowed to go to a ward football game on Thanksgiving because it was an "excellent day to go tracting with all the families at home," I rehearsed the 12th Article of Faith and was reported to my Mission President.

When Christmas came around, the policy changed and we weren't encouraged to go tracting. After I returned home, nearly all of the policies of which I raised issues with were changed (partly because we had a green MP, and partly because I wasn't the only one who raised issues with them).

If I would have known that someone with a "No Soliciting" sign could have pressed charges against me, I think I would have acted less like a victim when their reaction was less than cordial. Regardless, I consider myself fortunate that no one did, and that for the most part, Texans are friendly people (especially the Wright's in Denton).

I never understood the idea that holidays are a great day for tracting. They tried to push that in my mission as well but i refused to tract on days like Easter, Thanksgiving or Christmas-i felt it would do way more harm than good. Maybe i was wrong, but it's how i felt, and we were always able to stay busy doing other things on such days so it was never an issue anyway.

I just think disrupting people on such personal holidays is like being a telemarketer and calling during dinner time. Yes, people are more apt to be home, but they're also more apt to be angry at the disruption and completely dismiss your message.

[Duncan]

I never understood the idea that holidays are a great day for tracting. They tried to push that in my mission as well but i refused to tract on days like Easter, Thanksgiving or Christmas-i felt it would do way more harm than good. Maybe i was wrong, but it's how i felt, and we were always able to stay busy doing other things on such days so it was never an issue anyway.

I just think disrupting people on such personal holidays is like being a telemarketer and calling during dinner time. Yes, people are more apt to be home, but they're also more apt to be angry at the disruption and completely dismiss your message.

our mission pushed it as well. I also hated it and we avoided it at all costs. I vividly recall Thanskgiving night, 1998. It was PITCH black out, we had to be outside, no one wanted us inside so we street contacted, we figured they were out and so were we and we talked to some folks!

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I never understood the idea that holidays are a great day for tracting. They tried to push that in my mission as well but i refused to tract on days like Easter, Thanksgiving or Christmas-i felt it would do way more harm than good. Maybe i was wrong, but it's how i felt, and we were always able to stay busy doing other things on such days so it was never an issue anyway.

I just think disrupting people on such personal holidays is like being a telemarketer and calling during dinner time. Yes, people are more apt to be home, but they're also more apt to be angry at the disruption and completely dismiss your message.

I too, refused to tract those days. It is just inappropriate to do it. I had a hard time even tracing the 26th of Dec or the 1st of Jan. Nothing ever came from it but a bunch of slammed doors.

[One Clear Voice]

Back in the day I remember my Mission President telling us in a Zone Conference essentially to feign ignorance on those "no soliciting" signs -- you know, because we weren't *selling* something. I even remember a few weeks later making that exact case with an apartment complex manager:

Manager: You guys have to leave. There is no soliciting allowed here.

Me: "But we're not *selling* anything!"

....repeated, three times....

Seems we left but came back again another day, trying to keep ourselves under the radar.

I knew in my heart two things:

1. soliciting means more than peddling overpriced high school football fundraising products, biodegradable all-purpose household cleaners, free one-room-carpet-cleaning or leather-bound-codices-of-ultimate-knowledge. It absolutely means the selling and promoting of ideas, which is exactly what we were doing. And if you compare the financial impact of buying a discount card for Dominoes Pizza and committing 10% of your earnings for the rest of your life to the LDS Church then you would retain about hundreds of thousands times as much money by buying from the the enterprising youth standing at your front door than by betting baptized in the One True Church.

2. Everybody needs to hear the Gospel, and by darn we were going to deliver the good word whether they wanted it or not. What good is their usage of free agency when they do stupid stuff like shut themselves off from hearing The True Gospel?

At the time I felt justified in disobeying explicit directives from people not wanting solicitors bothering them because I was obeying my Mission President (and boy let me tell you I was terrified of disobeying him -- whole generations could be affected if nobody got baptized because I was a disobedient missionary). But that sentiment didn't last long, and I've always believed that we should have ignored his intentional equivocation.

So I want to know, am I alone in this type of experience? Did you have a similar experience? Do the missionaries today have to go through a similar internal fight between obeying the Mission President and complying with the obvious wishes of people just wanting their home to be unmolested by door-to-door-belief-pushers?

The dictionary defines Soliciting as: to solicit something desired. I certainly didn't see much of that on my Mission!

[OUmd]

In my ward missionaries are actually encouraged NOT to even tract. The same was not encouraged on my mission. It is well known that tracting is the least effective form of proselyting. The only time we were encouraged to tract was when we had absolutely nothing else to do. Tracting into someone that has a "no soliciting" sign is an even bigger waste of time. Why would a mission president ever tell a missionary to ignore such a sign?

Edited August 3, 2011 by OUmd

[volgadon]

I never understood the idea that holidays are a great day for tracting. They tried to push that in my mission as well but i refused to tract on days like Easter, Thanksgiving or Christmas-i felt it would do way more harm than good. Maybe i was wrong, but it's how i felt, and we were always able to stay busy doing other things on such days so it was never an issue anyway.

I just think disrupting people on such personal holidays is like being a telemarketer and calling during dinner time. Yes, people are more apt to be home, but they're also more apt to be angry at the disruption and completely dismiss your message.

In my mission tracting on a holiday could easily have gotten you a face smashed in by bricks.

[ebeddoulos]

A long, long time ago, in a land far, far away I was a young missionary standing in front of a door with a sign that had a laundry list of things:

• No soliciting
  No selling,
  No insurance salling,
  No Jehovahs Witnesses
  Etc. Etc. Etc Ad Infinitum

I rang the door bell. The man came and was apoplectic. "Can't you read?" he yelled. When I pointed out that he did not have Latter-day Saints on his list he burst out laughing and invited us in.

[Storm Rider]

......

So I want to know, am I alone in this type of experience? Did you have a similar experience? Do the missionaries today have to go through a similar internal fight between obeying the Mission President and complying with the obvious wishes of people just wanting their home to be unmolested by door-to-door-belief-pushers?

During my mission we were never counseled about this. When I say such a sign, I just moved on. The Gospel of Christ is about learning to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit. We have leaders that do their best to guide us, but their counsel must necessarily be generalizations and none of them will counsel you to follow their advice first and the Holy Spirit second. There are times where you follow the Spirit and that may conflict with your [insert the leader of choice].

There does seem to be more of a sheep mentality among missionaries of today. A willingness and desire to blank out inspiration in favor of obedience to a mission president. It is strange to me.

Before I get a lot of advice, please understand that I do not advice ignoring counsel of leaders lightly; my advice is to learn to follow the guidance of the Holy Ghost; have an eye single to the glory of God and all will be well.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

In my ward missionaries are actually encouraged NOT to even tract. The same was not encouraged on my mission. It is well known that tracting is the least effective form of proselyting. The only time we were encouraged to tract was when we had absolutely nothing else to do. Tracting into someone that has a "no soliciting" sign is an even bigger waste of time. Why would a mission president ever tell a missionary to ignore such a sign?

The number one way to get baptisms in the WV Charleston mission in '97 was by tracting. Really sad. I remember spending 50 + hrs a week tracting. It drove me nuts.

[kolipoki09]

The number one way to get baptisms in the WV Charleston mission in '97 was by tracting. Really sad. I remember spending 50 + hrs a week tracting. It drove me nuts.

That would explain the lady with the gun then. She didn't happen to be one of the Wild and Wonderful White's of West Virginia by chance? As of 2006, they were still shooting guns at Jehovah's Witnesses.

[kolipoki09]

The number one way to get baptisms in the WV Charleston mission in '97 was by tracting. Really sad. I remember spending 50 + hrs a week tracting. It drove me nuts.

That would explain the lady with the gun then. She didn't happen to be one of the Wild and Wonderful White's of West Virginia by chance? As of 2006, they were still shooting guns at Jehovah's Witnesses.

[emeliza]

In my ward missionaries are actually encouraged NOT to even tract. The same was not encouraged on my mission. It is well known that tracting is the least effective form of proselyting. The only time we were encouraged to tract was when we had absolutely nothing else to do. Tracting into someone that has a "no soliciting" sign is an even bigger waste of time. Why would a mission president ever tell a missionary to ignore such a sign?

I am surprised that so many say that tracting is the least effective form of proselyting. I was tracted out as were the three other convert friends I have that joined within a year on either side of me. We still get more convert baptisms from tracting in my ward than other ways. We do have a few here and there though that join due to family or friends.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

That would explain the lady with the gun then. She didn't happen to be one of the Wild and Wonderful White's of West Virginia by chance? As of 2006, they were still shooting guns at Jehovah's Witnesses.

Well..... she did have mullet, does that count?

[Doug the Hutt]

Well..... she did have mullet, does that count?

[kolipoki09]

Well..... she did have mullet, does that count?

No, its just a double of rep points.

[Yirgacheffe]

if you are not selling something then "no solicitation sings" do not apply,

They do in my community and 30 or so other neighboring communities.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

They do in my community and 30 or so other neighboring communities.

Do you find that the Missionaries hold to that?

BTW this is taken out of context of my original comments.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Yirgacheffe]

Do you find that the Missionaries hold to that?

BTW this is taken out of context of my original comments.

LDS missionaries and the SDA's used to knock in spite of my sign, now they are either not here or they are paying attention to the signs. The JW's on the other hand never did and still don't pay any attention to the signs.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

LDS missionaries and the SDA's used to knock in spite of my sign, now they are either not here or they are paying attention to the signs. The JW's on the other hand never did and still don't pay any attention to the signs.

Interesting.