Brant Gardner'S New Book: Believe The Hype

[David T]

Right before I went into the hospital with my wife, I found on my doorstep a review copy of Brant Gardner's new book, "The Gift and Power: Translating the Book of Mormon". It gave me something fascinating to focus on during my wife's surgery and post-op times where I was separated from her, and had nothing else I could really do.

While the full review is forthcoming, I just wanted to go on record saying that this book is fantastic, and will absolutely be considered a must-read for anyone who has either debated translation methods/types, or has had an interest in the question.

There are several threads of interest that have been floating around in the world of Mormon studies and apologetics. This book brings several of them together. It's a book that will challenge some previous sacred cows, and give unprecedented insight to other areas of question. The argument is presented in a logical progression that comes together in a breathtaking manner in the final chapter, where the pieces are put together. It's not a book that sets out to prove the Book of Mormon, it sets out to explain how the translation process worked, and what type of translation it actually is.

In the end, it presents not only an explanation for the method and means of translation of the Book of Mormon, but also has implications for the method of revelation in general, in which all recorded scripture, no matter the language, is in a very real way a 'translation' .

I'll go into more detail in my full review, but I wanted to add to the hype machine. This is a book you will not want to miss.

Edited July 21, 2011 by nackhadlow

[zerinus]

It's not a book that sets out to prove the Book of Mormon, it sets out to explain how the translation process worked, and what type of translation it actually is.

Nobody knows "how the translation process worked". Joseph Smith never told it to anyone, and said that it was not God's will that it should be revealed. So how could he know? The best that anyone can do is to make a good guess.

[David T]

Nobody knows "how the translation process worked". Joseph Smith never told it to anyone... So how could he know? The best that anyone can do is to make a good guess.

True. But Gardner has probably presented the most educated guess, using the most data and most solid methodology that I have come across. Because of the explanatory power and wide implications of the conclusions, dismissing it out of hand without consideration or investigation would, in my opinion, be a mistake.

, and said that it was not God's will that it should be revealed.

What is your reference for this assertion?

Edited July 21, 2011 by nackhadlow

[Ron Beron]

Nobody knows "how the translation process worked". Joseph Smith never told it to anyone, and said that it was not God's will that it should be revealed. So how could he know? The best that anyone can do is to make a good guess.

Royal Skousen has written a very clear and concise comment on this: http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=7&num=1&id=167

On a different note why is it always necessary to denigrate people and their work? Zerinus, since you've been here I have yet to see you post a positive comment on someone's material. If I'm wrong I'm sorry, but I don't think so.

[Chris Smith]

Joseph Smith never told it to anyone, and said that it was not God's will that it should be revealed.

Huh? When did he say that?

Frankly, Joseph does seem to have told people how it worked. There are many sources close to Joseph Smith that describe him literally reading the English text off of his seer stone.

[Questing Beast]

But not the U&T as the official version asserts. And the Plates are always depicted as being referenced. Perhaps this is one of the "sacred cows" that is being sacrificed by Gardner? If so it is high time, imho. Along with all assertions that there really were gold plates involved physically in the creation of the BoM....

[Nevo]

What is your reference for this assertion?

Zerinus is probably thinking of this:

Br. Hyrum Smith said that he thought best that the information of the coming forth of the book of Mormon be related by Joseph himself to the Elders present that all might know for themselves. Br. Joseph Smith jr. said that it was not intended to tell the world all the particulars of the coming forth of the book of Mormon, & also said that it was not expedient for him to relate these things &c.

— Donald Q. Cannon and Lyndon W. Cook, eds., Far West Record: Minutes of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1830-1844, 23.

[Rob Bowman]

nackhadlow,

How does one obtain a copy of this book? Who is the publisher? A Google search led me only to this forum and to references to his upcoming FAIR conference talk of the same title.

[ksfisher]

Rob,

The book was on Greg Kofford's site as a future release, but the site seems to have been reworked recently and it has disappeared.

[wenglund]

In the end, it presents not only an explanation for the method and means of translation of the Book of Mormon, but also has implications for the method of revelation in general, in which all recorded scripture, no matter the language, is in a very real way a 'translation' .

What impact, if any, do you think Brant's book will have on the Book of Abraham debates?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Brant Gardner]

nackhadlow:

Thank your for the kind words. Frankly, I am curious to see how this book is accepted because it does approach things so differently.

Questing Beast:

I propose that Joseph translated using a seer stone placed in the crown of his hat, and did not reference the plates during translation. However, as nackhadlow noted, I do believe that it is a translation. I explain a theory of how that happened.

Rob Bowman:

The book hasn't been released yet. There are some advanced review copies out there, but the release of the book will be the end of this month. I expect that the first time anyone actually sees it for sale will be at the FAIR conference. For those attending, they usually put things on sale at that time, so it should be the best price you will find. A very small extra reason to attend the conference.

[Storm Rider]

nackhadlow:

Thank your for the kind words. Frankly, I am curious to see how this book is accepted because it does approach things so differently.

Questing Beast:

I propose that Joseph translated using a seer stone placed in the crown of his hat, and did not reference the plates during translation. However, as nackhadlow noted, I do believe that it is a translation. I explain a theory of how that happened.

Rob Bowman:

The book hasn't been released yet. There are some advanced review copies out there, but the release of the book will be the end of this month. I expect that the first time anyone actually sees it for sale will be at the FAIR conference. For those attending, they usually put things on sale at that time, so it should be the best price you will find. A very small extra reason to attend the conference.

Brant, do you address why the U&T was not used? I had always thought Joseph used several methods from the U&T, seer stone, to direct revelation without the use of anything else. I will look forward to reading your book.

[Brant Gardner]

Brant, do you address why the U&T was not used? I had always thought Joseph used several methods from the U&T, seer stone, to direct revelation without the use of anything else. I will look forward to reading your book.

I address why we use the term urim and thummim to refer to any and all of the instruments used in translation. The Old Testament urim and thrummim was not used. The Book of Mormon only speaks of interpreters, and when those were returned to Moroni, the translation continued with a seer stone. These were later linked to the biblical urim and thummin, which term eventually replaced all others.

[David Bokovoy]

Congratulations, Brant, on completing the work. I'm really looking forward to reading your views in full. Here's hoping that the sacrifice of Hebraisms is not one of the sacred cows.

Best,

--DB

[stemelbow]

I propose that Joseph translated using a seer stone placed in the crown of his hat

So I have a stupid question, something that didn't occur to me before. What's the crown of a hat? I've always just assumed the stone was put into the hat (if held upside down--the deep part), but maybe not realizing it, I'm missing something.

This is quite exciting news to me, this book.

[Brant Gardner]

So I have a stupid question, something that didn't occur to me before. What's the crown of a hat? I've always just assumed the stone was put into the hat (if held upside down--the deep part), but maybe not realizing it, I'm missing something.

This is quite exciting news to me, this book.

You have it right. The method was used to diminish the available light. From what I have seen, all forms of scrying involve some means of disrupting or distorting normal vision. That is one of the things I try to cover in the part where I brave the wilds and attempt to explain how such things work (a process I see occurring in the brain, not in the scrying instrument).

[Brant Gardner]

Congratulations, Brant, on completing the work. I'm really looking forward to reading your views in full. Here's hoping that the sacrifice of Hebraisms is not one of the sacred cows.

Best,

--DB

Sorry to disappoint you (but you kind of guessed that, didn't you). Still, I was surprised to find that I have to posit that names came through the translation relatively unscathed (allowing for Joseph's understanding of consonants and vowels). I would also agree that some concepts came through, but I just can't find any good evidence (or theory that allows for it) to have that vocabulary retained in translation.

[WalkerW]

Sorry to disappoint you (but you kind of guessed that, didn't you). Still, I was surprised to find that I have to posit that names came through the translation relatively unscathed (allowing for Joseph's understanding of consonants and vowels). I would also agree that some concepts came through, but I just can't find any good evidence (or theory that allows for it) to have that vocabulary retained in translation.

Will this be available in e-book? Is your BoM commentary available in e-book format as well? Between your commentary, your new book, and Don's upcoming book, I have a handful of BoM books to get.

[Brant Gardner]

Will this be available in e-book? Is your BoM commentary available in e-book format as well? Between your commentary, your new book, and Don's upcoming book, I have a handful of BoM books to get.

I have been told that Kofford is releasing books in eformats now. I don't know exactly when Gift and Power will be ready, but I believe soon. I have even heard that Second Witness will soon be available in various eformats.

[WalkerW]

I have been told that Kofford is releasing books in eformats now. I don't know exactly when Gift and Power will be ready, but I believe soon. I have even heard that Second Witness will soon be available in various eformats.

That makes me excited. Looking forward to it.

[Robert F. Smith]

Nobody knows "how the translation process worked". Joseph Smith never told it to anyone, and said that it was not God's will that it should be revealed. So how could he know? The best that anyone can do is to make a good guess.

Actually, there is a great deal of information available on how the translation process worked, and I cite it and quote it in my paper on "Translation of Languages" HERE.

[MAsh]

I expect that the first time anyone actually sees it for sale will be at the FAIR conference. For those attending, they usually put things on sale at that time, so it should be the best price you will find. A very small extra reason to attend the conference.

Make sure there are lots of copies. I predict this will be a hot seller.

I'm on a stuck-in-recession pinch myself but will still buy a copy even if I can't buy any other books.

[Rivers]

Will this book be sold at Desseret Book?

[Rivers]

Will this book be sold at Desseret Book?

[Brant Gardner]

Will this book be sold at Deseret Book?

I am not counting on it. The topic is controversial enough that I would expect Deseret Book to pass on it--at least for a while (in my most optimistic view). I do expect that the FAIR bookstore would have it, and they usually have discounts and it is a great group to support.

The official release date is August 12, but I have been informed that there will be a pre-sale at the FAIR conference.