mmmcounts Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 A lot of the Mormon secrets- Temple secrets in particular- are out there. On the interwebs. People can know them if they care to.I don't really know how much I know compared to someone who's actually a Mormon, but I know more than I'm supposed to. Without getting too specific, what difference does it make?Thanks.
Jeff K. Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 It has nothing to do with what others know. It has a great deal to do with our own integrity.
mmmcounts Posted May 29, 2011 Author Posted May 29, 2011 Is it really all about being a good secret-keeper? From my end- now that I know some of these things- are you saying that doesn't actually mean anything, and that wasn't the point in the first place?
bluebell Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Is it really all about being a good secret-keeper? From my end- now that I know some of these things- are you saying that doesn't actually mean anything, and that wasn't the point in the first place?It's not about keeping things secret. If it was, as you have said, the cat is pretty much out of the bag. Even members who have been to the temple are not allowed to discuss certain aspects of it outside of the temple walls. Again, if it was just about keeping things secret, there would be no reason for that prohibition.In reality, we don't share many aspects of the temple because 1)-we have made covenants not to and 2)-we believe many parts are sacred and shouldn't be discussed in a 'worldly' setting or treated lightly or in an irreverent manner (as they are by most nonmembers who discuss them or feel they need to know about them).Hope that helps explain it a bit.
rpn Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Knowing makes you accountable for what you know. But other than that, I'm not sure that others knowing is the reason we are counseled to respect sacred things and keep them holy. I suspect it is less about other people not knowing, than it is about our own measure of understanding and fealty to recognizing and honoring the sacredness of our relationship with Diety, and even learning to submit our will in all things to our Heavenly Father. It is about our coming to the place where our reverence for things of God outweigh our human curiousity and need to show off what we know. It is part of the process where we no longer gossip but try to speak uplifting and good always. Or where we seek to inspire rather than punish as a way to teach our children. It is the flip side of rendering unto Caesar.
thesometimesaint Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 It doesn't really matter that someone else tells. It matters if I tell.
Deborah Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 For a member it is a matter of trust and keeping covenants. Can God trust us to treat the sacred things sacred. If not will he then be willing to trust us with greater things? The point of the temple isn't so much that we go through the rituals but what the rituals mean and that is an ever-ongoing learning process as we grow. As we attend we can receive revelation about different things we experience or about what it going on in our lives. The reverence of the temple can prepare us to receive these things. Those who mock and reveal have no concept of what these things really mean.
Calm Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 A lot of the Mormon secrets- Temple secrets in particular- are out there. On the interwebs. People can know them if they care to.It is not about keeping things secret, it is about keeping things in the right context so that they may be used as they were meant to be used and not instead abused.
CV75 Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 A lot of the Mormon secrets- Temple secrets in particular- are out there. On the interwebs. People can know them if they care to.I don't really know how much I know compared to someone who's actually a Mormon, but I know more than I'm supposed to. Without getting too specific, what difference does it make?Thanks.For one to know these things without covenant can hamper his faith to the point of preventing him from making the covenants. His hampered faith can be manifest in many ways.
Palerider Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 A lot of the Mormon secrets- Temple secrets in particular- are out there. On the interwebs. People can know them if they care to.I don't really know how much I know compared to someone who's actually a Mormon, but I know more than I'm supposed to. Without getting too specific, what difference does it make?Thanks.Could it also be that the connection with Masonic temple rites is so easily drawn? Many who have studied or been involved with Freemasonry and then are exposed to Mormon temple rites immediately see the similarities. It sort of "steals the thunder" of being able to claim "new, never before (except to the ancients) revealed revelation".
Jeff K. Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 No. It comes to personal integrity and keeping one's covenants and promises to God. Its a shame those things are so alien to you.
Lance in TX Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 A lot of the Mormon secrets- Temple secrets in particular- are out there. On the interwebs. People can know them if they care to.I don't really know how much I know compared to someone who's actually a Mormon, but I know more than I'm supposed to. Without getting too specific, what difference does it make?Thanks.It is not about them being Secret. It is about them being Sacred. There is a LOT of symolism in the Temple and the ordinances that are done in the Temple are there for us to grow and learn from. On the surface, many of them look strange or otherwise, but as a believer goes through them we learn from them.I have gone MANY MANY times to the Temple in the past and every time I have gone, I learned more from them.Since much of it is done with symbolism, how you see them and how I see them may be different and may mean different things to each of us. If I tell you what they mean to me and you do not see it, then that would be a dis-service to you. Each person that goes through the Temple needs to learn on their own at their own pace. We have a saying: Line upon line, precept upon precept.Does this help?
Lance in TX Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Could it also be that the connection with Masonic temple rites is so easily drawn? Many who have studied or been involved with Freemasonry and then are exposed to Mormon temple rites immediately see the similarities. It sort of "steals the thunder" of being able to claim "new, never before (except to the ancients) revealed revelation".Yes you are correct, there are a lot of similarities, but that is not much of a surprise when you look at how long Masons have been around. There is a belief that Masons have been around since the beginning of time and that their work can be seen in the Pyramids, the early Jewish Temples, and before. If they were around from the beginning, then why wouldn't their rituals be similar?? That does not mean that they have the same MEANING as when they are done in the Temple, but the actions may be similar.
Palerider Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Yes you are correct, there are a lot of similarities, but that is not much of a surprise when you look at how long Masons have been around. There is a belief that Masons have been around since the beginning of time and that their work can be seen in the Pyramids, the early Jewish Temples, and before. If they were around from the beginning, then why wouldn't their rituals be similar?? That does not mean that they have the same MEANING as when they are done in the Temple, but the actions may be similar.I also read that there was "a belief" that they had "been around" but little to no evidence to support such a proposition. The current Masonic rites that are similar to those of the Mormons were developed in Europe and England in the 16th century as I recall. Most everything going back beyond that is legend.
ERayR Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 A lot of the Mormon secrets- Temple secrets in particular- are out there. On the interwebs. People can know them if they care to.I don't really know how much I know compared to someone who's actually a Mormon, but I know more than I'm supposed to. Without getting too specific, what difference does it make?Thanks.I am beginning to believe that in all Christainity Mormons are the only ones who have the concept of sacred.
Palerider Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 No. It comes to personal integrity and keeping one's covenants and promises to God. Its a shame those things are so alien to you.Please try to be non-judgemental. It only shows your lack of recourse.
Palerider Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 I am beginning to believe that in all Christainity Mormons are the only ones who have the concept of sacred.I think those of the Catholic faith would disagree with you. I know of an ordinance (which I will respect just as I do the LDS temple ordinances) that is very "hidden" that they speak of in very careful terms.
ERayR Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 I think those of the Catholic faith would disagree with you. I know of an ordinance (which I will respect just as I do the LDS temple ordinances) that is very "hidden" that they speak of in very careful terms.I will apologize to our Catholic friends and back off a bit. It, however, seems that the observation can be extended to a large part of christianity. I will also extend the apology to any who understand the difference between sacred and secret.
USU78 Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Could it also be that the connection with Masonic temple rites is so easily drawn? Many who have studied or been involved with Freemasonry and then are exposed to Mormon temple rites immediately see the similarities. It sort of "steals the thunder" of being able to claim "new, never before (except to the ancients) revealed revelation".A good number of the early Mormons were Masons in their secular lives. They understood the vocabulary of the Masonic ritual and believed what the then Masons believed (and some yet believe): that the rituals were preserved from the time of Solomon. You apparently have missed the several articles on this subject, as well as the many, many threads on this and its successor board(s) that included posts from faithful Saints who are also good Masons.One might ask why this connection is so important, unless one believes that Masonry is shameful in some ways. Recent statistics tend to show that the same folks who tend to hate and fear Mormons likewise hate and fear Masons.For the OP: is the ignorance and pettiness of the anti-Mason of particular importance in assessing whether one ought to keep one's promises even though others have broken theirs?
LeSellers Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 The current Masonic rites that are similar to those of the Mormons were developed in Europe and England in the 16th century as I recall. Most everything going back beyond that is legend."Legend" ≠ "False". There's a lot more evidence than you allege. Lehi
Jeff K. Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Jeff K., on 29 May 2011 - 05:50 PM, said: No. It comes to personal integrity and keeping one's covenants and promises to God. Its a shame those things are so alien to you.Please try to be non-judgemental. It only shows your lack of recourse.You are the one questioning why people have to show integrity, I do not. Why not tell the world if the world knows? Because our integrity, our actions, who we are, isn't based on the world and its wants and desires.People who have been here a while are aware that you have disdain for the church, that is clear in your posts here. So attempting to call someone else judgemental while you question why they must be honest and not go back on their word is the height of irony.
Alla Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 A lot of the Mormon secrets- Temple secrets in particular- are out there. On the interwebs. People can know them if they care to.I don't really know how much I know compared to someone who's actually a Mormon, but I know more than I'm supposed to. Without getting too specific, what difference does it make?Thanks.It doesn't really matter what you know. What you understand is more important. Then you can use knowledge. Only when you understand.If my friend and I go together to the Temple, do the same things over there, see and hear the same things over there, then we discuss things in Celestial room. When we leave Celestial room we don't discuss those things any more. There are no secrets, there is respect for what is sacred.
Jeff K. Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 I would not ask other churches to reduce their sacred ordinance to mere gossip for all to gawk at. Why not Latter-day Saints?
Palerider Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 A good number of the early Mormons were Masons in their secular lives. They understood the vocabulary of the Masonic ritual and believed what the then Masons believed (and some yet believe): that the rituals were preserved from the time of Solomon. You apparently have missed the several articles on this subject, as well as the many, many threads on this and its successor board(s) that included posts from faithful Saints who are also good Masons.One might ask why this connection is so important, unless one believes that Masonry is shameful in some ways. Recent statistics tend to show that the same folks who tend to hate and fear Mormons likewise hate and fear Masons.For the OP: is the ignorance and pettiness of the anti-Mason of particular importance in assessing whether one ought to keep one's promises even though others have broken theirs?I have no belief that anything the Masons do is shameful. On the contrary I understand that they are generally an institution for good in the community and work to advance good causes just as the LDS do generally. I've done more than my share of community service with the church and enjoyed it and the fellowship as well. Re: Earlier threads regarding the ancient practice of Masonry, especially dating to times of Solomon, I would be more than happy to see any hard evidence you might be able to point me to in that regard.
Palerider Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 "Legend" ≠ "False". There's a lot more evidence than you allege. LehiPlease see reponse to USU78. Thanks!
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