rockslider Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 An individual who has had a very large impact on Mormon society, largely on the internet, but I’m sure spilling over into the realms of local stakes and wards, especially along the Wasatch Front, may be facing Church discipline. A recent thread was locked because of the personal nature of this issue. I’d suggest that Mormon stories has grown to be a small society and representative of an aspect of Mormonism that has rightly been a valid topic of discussion here (i.e. Cafeteria, NOM, social etc. Mormons).I believe that like the September 6, or Quinn or any number of other very public figures, the actions revolving around this individual will be remembered, documented and have effect, for better or worse, for members of the Church, no matter their status for a long time to come.I’d suggest that whatever the outcome of upcoming meetings with Church leaders might unfold, this is a no-win situation for the Church and/or for John and his family.Unfortunately this will be a win-win situation for anti-Mormons.I believe this to be much more than some personal issue, and I’m surprised that it seems to warrant no forum for discussion here.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 The gentleman in question has made it a matter of public speculation by speaking of it, so I also am perplexed as to why the topic is not allowed.
Duncan Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 An individual who has had a very large impact on Mormon society, largely on the internet, but I’m sure spilling over into the realms of local stakes and wards, especially along the Wasatch Front, may be facing Church discipline. A recent thread was locked because of the personal nature of this issue. I’d suggest that Mormon stories has grown to be a small society and representative of an aspect of Mormonism that has rightly been a valid topic of discussion here (i.e. Cafeteria, NOM, social etc. Mormons).I believe that like the September 6, or Quinn or any number of other very public figures, the actions revolving around this individual will be remembered, documented and have effect, for better or worse, for members of the Church, no matter their status for a long time to come.I’d suggest that whatever the outcome of upcoming meetings with Church leaders might unfold, this is a no-win situation for the Church and/or for John and his family.Unfortunately this will be a win-win situation for anti-Mormons.I believe this to be much more than some personal issue, and I’m surprised that it seems to warrant no forum for discussion here.how do we know he is facing church discipline or even hinting that he might? If you want Church discipline show up at my stake centre every wed. night for Church hockey! there was a pile on the Bishop awhile back
mercyngrace Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 I haven't seen anything suggesting church discipline but I do agree that there is a growing community of people for whom the middle way has become the only way. That's okay with me, especially where it concerns beliefs and doctrinal differences, because struggling in the church seems like a more productive way to build faith than struggling outside the church.How the church institutionally chooses to handle "uncorrelated Mormons" will be interesting.
Duncan Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 I haven't seen anything suggesting church discipline but I do agree that there is a growing community of people for whom the middle way has become the only way. That's okay with me, especially where it concerns beliefs and doctrinal differences, because struggling in the church seems like a more productive way to build faith than struggling outside the church.How the church institutionally chooses to handle "uncorrelated Mormons" will be interesting.what do they mean by "uncorrelated Mormons" is it like that Star Wars day thing?...
rockslider Posted May 5, 2011 Author Posted May 5, 2011 how do we know he is facing church discipline or even hinting that he might? If you want Church discipline show up at my stake centre every wed. night for Church hockey! there was a pile on the Bishop awhile backI fully acknowledge that the possibility of Church discipline is totally speculative. And I’d love to just see this thread explore the possibilities of how the Church and Mormon Stories both should proceed going forward.I do not believe that John has any malice towards the church, and would not want to take any actions that would hurt others. Times have changed a lot from 1993 and the way that “less actives” (i.e. inactive but not resigned) have been handled in recent years. But of course Mormon stories has become so public and wide spread at this point, I’d hope that the Church also wants to tread carefully here.
rockslider Posted May 5, 2011 Author Posted May 5, 2011 what do they mean by "uncorrelated Mormons" is it like that Star Wars day thing?...I believe M&G is referring to the Church’s correlation departments approved material that is to be taught verses what I tend to call the old school doctrine, which brings with it a lot of hard questions.
jskains Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 An individual who has had a very large impact on Mormon society, largely on the internet, but I’m sure spilling over into the realms of local stakes and wards, especially along the Wasatch Front, may be facing Church discipline. Oh please. Very few people even know him or his site.JMS
rockslider Posted May 5, 2011 Author Posted May 5, 2011 Oh please. Very few people even know him or his site.Others thoughts on this?
mfbukowski Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Oh please. Very few people even know him or his site.JMSI don't have a clue what you guys are talking about, since I live outside the Mormon ghettos.All I know is someone said the name "John" who I presume is John Dehlin, who I have heard about peripherally on this board and at the trailer park.What's the big deal and why all the secrecy?What is this, the CIA?
Ceeboo Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Hey Rock,Others thoughts on this?Sure!As a never-Mo, I am very familiar with him and his site. (I am confident when I suggest that there are many thousands of people who are as well)I would add, FWIW, it is my opinion that his enormous efforts (no matter what "side" you happen to be on) are well intended, sincere, and designed to lend help/support to any and all.A good and decent man, to be sure. (again, just my opinion)Peace,Ceeboo
TNBu Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 John's podcast is fascinating. I would have to disagree with jskains-- plenty of people know who he is. His videos on youtube have accumulated thousands of views. His "Why People Leave the LDS Church" presentation alone has logged over 75,000 views. Since Tuesday, there have been 417 responses to his announcement about his meeting with a church leader. I have no idea how heavy his site traffic is, but I would assume it is significant. John is pretty well known.
bluebell Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Others thoughts on this?I've never heard of him or mormonstories before your thread, but i live in Montana so that could be part of the reason.
rockslider Posted May 5, 2011 Author Posted May 5, 2011 I don't have a clue what you guys are talking about, since I live outside the Mormon ghettos.All I know is someone said the name "John" who I presume is John Dehlin, who I have heard about peripherally on this board and at the trailer park.What's the big deal and why all the secrecy?What is this, the CIA?I was just trying hard to keep it non-personal so that it would not be immediately lockedhttp://www.mormondia...14-john-dehlin/
rockslider Posted May 5, 2011 Author Posted May 5, 2011 I've never heard of him or mormonstories before your thread, but i live in Montana so that could be part of the reason.Take a look at this list and see if there is not a topic that grabs your eye that you might find interesting, as a TBM. Then take the time to listen to one you pick out.http://mormonstories.org/?page_id=102
Whiskeypete Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Others thoughts on this?"An individual who has had a very large impact on Mormon society" but who is someone that I doubt that 99.99% of the Church has ever heard of. I know that I have seen the occasional link to the Mormon Stories podcast or blog or whatever it is. But I am a fairly regular browser of many of the LDS blogs. I don't recall his name coming up too often.So I really doubt that whatever happens to this individual will have any lasting impact on the stakes and wards.You brought up the September Six. First of all, most members of the church would be hard pressed to name even one of them. Second, they all would have done well to follow Brother Gileadi's example (the notable empty seat at the press conference) and not used their 15 seconds of fame to trash the church, but instead used the church discipline process as it was intended as a step on the path back into the church.Especially in Quinn's case, it is easy to see how his excommunication was simply an acknowledgement of an personal apostasy that had already happened.
Jeff K. Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 An individual who has had a very large impact on Mormon society, largely on the internet, but I’m sure spilling over into the realms of local stakes and wards, especially along the Wasatch Front, may be facing Church discipline. A recent thread was locked because of the personal nature of this issue. I’d suggest that Mormon stories has grown to be a small society and representative of an aspect of Mormonism that has rightly been a valid topic of discussion here (i.e. Cafeteria, NOM, social etc. Mormons).I believe that like the September 6, or Quinn or any number of other very public figures, the actions revolving around this individual will be remembered, documented and have effect, for better or worse, for members of the Church, no matter their status for a long time to come.I’d suggest that whatever the outcome of upcoming meetings with Church leaders might unfold, this is a no-win situation for the Church and/or for John and his family.Unfortunately this will be a win-win situation for anti-Mormons.I believe this to be much more than some personal issue, and I’m surprised that it seems to warrant no forum for discussion here.You guys in the Wasatch area must think alot of yourselves. The rest of us will just keep on keeping on....
Jeff K. Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 how do we know he is facing church discipline or even hinting that he might? If you want Church discipline show up at my stake centre every wed. night for Church hockey! there was a pile on the Bishop awhile backLOL, our bishop is of a like mind. Hockey is his favorite game.
bluebell Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Take a look at this list and see if there is not a topic that grabs your eye that you might find interesting, as a TBM. Then take the time to listen to one you pick out.http://mormonstories.org/?page_id=102Do they stuff that you can just read? I don't really like listening to or watching podcasts.
ELF1024 Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 I don't have a clue what you guys are talking about, since I live outside the Mormon ghettos.All I know is someone said the name "John" who I presume is John Dehlin, who I have heard about peripherally on this board and at the trailer park.What's the big deal and why all the secrecy?What is this, the CIA?Never heard of him, couldn't care less. It has no effect on my salvation.
rockslider Posted May 5, 2011 Author Posted May 5, 2011 Do they stuff that you can just read? I don't really like listening to or watching podcasts.Not so much, that I'm aware ... mostly audio and video ... live interviews
mfbukowski Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 I was just trying hard to keep it non-personal so that it would not be immediately lockedhttp://www.mormondia...14-john-dehlin/Ok I looked him up.If it gets locked it gets locked. It seems fine to the mods that Rob Bowman gets to take over any thread spouting his personal beliefs- why can't we discuss Dehlin's beliefs and whether or not they constitute "apostasy"To me, it is not really a personal issue, it is a question of doctrine and what constitutes "apostasy" http://mormonstories.org/?p=1583Could we create togetherSupport for alternative approaches to a moral frameworkSupport for alternative forms of spiritualityA dating service for singles/divorcedLocal communitiesFor children -- Local play groupsFor teens -- EFY’sFor college students -- College meet-up groupsFor couples/families – Book clubs, study groupsA new collective identity? (“Reform Judaism”)NOT a church/religionCan co-exist with church/religion Positive, constructive approachCarry forward the good in what got us hereHeavy emphasis on love/serviceSupport of families (all types)Strong communities of supportEncouraging healthy livingLeave behind the less desirable thingsBelief in harmful doctrine/theologyBigotrySexismAuthoritarianismPatriarchyElitismAnti-intellectualism / anti-scienceStrong appreciation of scienceRooted in common sense values/ethicsClearly he wants to start his own organization with beliefs which differ from the church in certain ways (or so he imagines)Of course they do not actually- these are beliefs anyone IN the church can believe just fine.But starting another organization? A new collective identity? (“Reform Judaism”)Definitely apostateHe doesn't understand that all his points do in fact co-exist perfectly with the "ortho-praxis" of Mormonism. There is no conflict.
rockslider Posted May 5, 2011 Author Posted May 5, 2011 Never heard of him, couldn't care less. It has no effect on my salvation.I wonder if caring about others effects our salvation? I wonder if learning from others effects our salvation? I wonder if sharing and teaching others effect our salvation?Have I done any good in the world today?Have I helped anyone in need?Have I cheered up the sad and made someone feel glad?If not, I have failed indeed.Has anyone’s burden been lighter todayBecause I was willing to share?Have the sick and the weary been helped on their way?When they needed my help was I there?Then wake up and do something moreThan dream of your mansion above.Doing good is a pleasure, a joy beyond measure,A blessing of duty and love.
Ceeboo Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Never heard of him, couldn't care less. It has no effect on my salvation.Fabulous! Peace,Ceeboo
mfbukowski Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Do they stuff that you can just read? I don't really like listening to or watching podcasts.No, they want to waste as much of your time as possible speaking slowly while you wait for them to get to the point which is often not worth it to start with
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