SilverKnight Posted March 16, 2011 Author Posted March 16, 2011 Yeah, but that's a really cool picture."What say you?!?!"Maybe a horse head in the bed?
WalkerW Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 There is no double standardYou're very inconsistent in the way you interpret and apply scripture.and what is wrong with taking the Iron rod literally?I think you are assuming too much with your apparent equating of "LDSGuy 1986's interpretation of the Standard Works" with "the Iron Rod."I want an answer regarding Onan predating Moses.
LDS Guy 1986 Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 You're very inconsistent in the way you interpret and apply scripture.I think you are assuming too much with your apparent equating of "LDSGuy 1986's interpretation of the Standard Works" with "the Iron Rod."I want an answer regarding Onan predating Moses.It has no impact, he was using ti to make claims that are against the Gospel because of the Atonement of Christ.
WalkerW Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Maybe a horse head in the bed?You're making an offer I can't refuse.
consiglieri Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 I want an answer regarding Onan dating Moses.
WalkerW Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 It has no impact, he was using ti to make claims that are against the Gospel because of the Atonement of Christ.He was making fun of you. Don't you get that? Yet, you said he was a liar because the Atonement takes care of the Law of Moses. Onan wasn't under the Law of Moses. Your rebuttal and accusation fall flat.But you are too caught up in your smug condemnation of those who disagree with you that you won't admit it.
Obiwan Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Well, Adultery and Breaking ones marriage covenants IS considered to be almost as bad as murder, thus there can be some case for this. But, these things ARE forgivable if repentance and an attempt at restitution is done. Mass Murder obviously wouldn't be the same degree as covenant breaking.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 I am starting to think you were not glued to ABC on Friday nights during the fall of 1974 . . .Oh... that explains it. How could I be glued to my TV in 1974 when DOB was in 1978?
SilverKnight Posted March 16, 2011 Author Posted March 16, 2011 Okay, LDS Guy 1986, lets enumerate:1. Do you still maintain that a priesthood holder breaking the Priesthood Covenant is strictly worse sin than the murder of innocents?2. Do you still maintain that ultimately failing to honor your covenants qualifies you for outer darkness, a fate worse than the vilest murderer gets?3. Do you sill maintain that neglecting your home teaching, masturbating, or failing to magnify your priesthood in some other minor way, counts as soiling your priesthood covenant, thus qualifying you for an eternity in outer darkness, whilst Jeff Dahmer and Adolf Hitler enjoy a comparatively luxurious stint in the Telestial Kingdom?
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 I am still hoping I don't have to be the one to tell Mola Mola my avatar is not Captain Kirk . . .Yeah, don't worry about it. Sorry, I am ignorant of all the roles William played. I only know him as Jame T Kirk.
consiglieri Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Sorry, I am ignorant of all the roles William played. Please review thread.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Please review thread.Well, I just did. I learned something new. Hurray. It is not William. Ahhh I am indeed a fool.
consiglieri Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Well, I just did. I learned something new. Hurray.And opened up a whole new vista of rerun entertainment!
SilverKnight Posted March 16, 2011 Author Posted March 16, 2011 Yeah, don't worry about it. Sorry, I am ignorant of all the roles William played. I only know him as Jame T Kirk.It's okay Mola, Consig smugly ridiculed my tender self-styled expertise on all things pop culture.He's a sadistic old rascal.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Please review thread.It really looks like William Shatner I say.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 It's okay Mola, Consig smugly ridiculed my tender self-styled expertise on all things pop culture.He's a sadistic old rascal.That is OK I love Consig. I love the threads he starts. It is fun to see how people post with regards to what he brings up. Any way. This was indeed entertaining. This whole time (4 years now) I though Consigs Avatar was William Shatner. How embarrassing?
consiglieri Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 That is OK I love Consig. I love the threads he starts. I love you, too, but it was SilverKnight started the thread.
Brade Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 1986, as members we covenant to refrain from all loud laughing and being lightminded. So, consider a loud laughing and lightminded member on the one hand. And, consider a non-member murderer on the other. The former has done something which he explicitly covenanted not to do before God and angels. The latter, we are assuming, has made no such covenants. Which is God more displeased with? Are they both on the same footing as far as God is concerned? This is a serious question, BTW.
Mark Beesley Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 LDS Guy's rather radical position is seemingly based on D&C 84:41, which states:But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.Two areas of inquiry need to be explored:1. What does it mean to receive the covenant? Is it simply being ordained to an office in the Melchizedek Priesthood, or does receiving the covenant mean something more? Isn't the full reception of the covenant only realized when one's calling and election is made sure?2. What does "altogether turneth therefrom" mean? Surely I have not altogether turned from anything just because I don't go hometeaching very religiously. Heck, I didn't even consider myself having turned altogether from certain covenanats just because I struggled keeping them all, which led to various Church disciplines. Apparently, the Lord agreed cause I've been rebaptized, had blessings restored, and was granted clearance to be sealed to my second wife.A final area of inquiry deals with whether or not there is any point in beating up on another poster who has demonstrated a willingness to stake out untenable claims and defend them at all costs.
consiglieri Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 A final area of inquiry deals with whether or not there is any point in beating up on another poster who has demonstrated a willingness to stake out untenable claims and defend them at all costs.Oh, geez! Shame us, why don't ya?
LDS Guy 1986 Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 1. What does it mean to receive the covenant? Is it simply being ordained to an office in the Melchizedek Priesthood, or does receiving the covenant mean something more? Isn't the full reception of the covenant only realized when one's calling and election is made sure? To receive mean you take upon yourself the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood. 2. What does "altogether turneth therefrom" mean? Surely I have not altogether turned from anything just because I don't go hometeaching very religiously. Heck, I didn't even consider myself having turned altogether from certain covenanats just because I struggled keeping them all, which led to various Church disciplines. Apparently, the Lord agreed cause I've been rebaptized, had blessings restored, and was granted clearance to be sealed to my second wife.No, if you make a mistake and repent then you are fine, we are expected to struggle and this is not suppose to be a holier than thou thing. This all arose from a previous thread where you have a theoretical a man who is standing before the judgement seat, he held the priesthood and a temple recommend, but he abused his spouse and children and dealing with his fellow man dishonestly in the business world and spent his whole life lying to God when he told his Stake President every year that that he was honest with his fellow man and was a good father and husband. This is plain and simple breaking the covenant, he cannot receive salvation in this life or the next. We are all told about the Oath and Covenant of the priesthood when we are interviewed for it, so he was informed of the oath he was taking. He willingly took and and willingly broke it without any remorse or repentance (as far as we know given the theoretical nature of the question)A final area of inquiry deals with whether or not there is any point in beating up on another poster who has demonstrated a willingness to stake out untenable claims and defend them at all costs.I don't see how this claim in untenable, of course Christ is the final judge but many feel that, one is not held to a higher standard of judgement once they enter the priesthood, to believe this is not follow the scriptures, or the warnings that every candidate for the office of elder should be given. IMO, it is a better fate for the worst sinners that never accepted Christ, than it is for those who entered the priesthood and broke there covenants. There is very few things one can do to never receive forgiveness in this life or the next and breaking the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood is one of those few.
Let_Us_Reason Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 For LDS GuyConsider D&C 19. Apparently God is saying that those "eternal damnation" scriptures were written that way to work upon the hearts of men. Perhaps that business of no forgiveness in this world or the next is one of those "work on our hearts so we know it's serious" kind of thing. Who knows, but I agree with ElfLord: This is too letter of the law and not spirit of the law stuff.
Avatar4321 Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Breaking the covenants is not an unforgiveable or unpardonable sin. Else people could not become rebaptized.Murder, for one who has made covenants with God, is unforgivable.Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is the unpardonable sin. And it's much more than merely breaking the covenants.
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