zerinus Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 If I have to choose between the teachings of Mormonism and the teachings of the Book of Mormon, which would you suggest?If there was a conflict between the two . . . but I don't see one.
zerinus Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 If we don't have to sin, ed2276, I propose that you simply stop doing so for the rest of your life.Since when did you become an Evangelical?
Senator Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 It is true that this life is a probationary state so that if we sin we can repent of it and still obtain eternal life; Then you are affirming that it is possible to obtain eternal life without a Savior. No?
consiglieri Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 Since when did you become an Evangelical?Since I read the Book of Mormon . . .
consiglieri Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 Then you are affirming that it is possible to obtain eternal life without a Savior. No?Now we're getting to the nubbin.Closer to the bone,The sweeter is the meat.
consiglieri Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 If there was a conflict between the two . . . but I don't see one.None is so blind . . .
zerinus Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 So you believe that Adam and Eve actually had the power to frustrate the plan of the God of the Universe?Interesting concept . . .I don't think you understand the meaning of the Fall properly either. Have a look at this Blog post for answers to some questions.
erichard Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 That's dogma.No. That's worse than dogma.That's . . . dog manure!--ALFI think Senator was simply suggesting things that Joseph himself said:"I did not like the old man being called up for erring in doctrine. It looks too much like the Methodist, and not like the Latter-day Saints. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be asked out of their church. I want the liberty of thinking and believing as I please. It feels so good not to be trammeled. It does not prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine." (History of the Church 5:340)"One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may."etc etcsurely you agree with this?Richard
zerinus Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 So you don't just believe it because they say it?I don't believe I am requited to. I know it comes over like that sometimes, the way some people talk; but the scriptures and past prophets of the Church have taught differently.
zerinus Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 I will paraphrase Paul, and suggest that you are never learning and ever able to come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 3:7) I refer you to the parable of the moat and the beam.
thesometimesaint Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 consiglieri:The Plan was for Adam and Eve to gain a body, and to be tried, and tested to see if they would do what so ever the Lord, their God would command them. God did not command them to partake of the fruit, he allowed them their agency to choose.
consiglieri Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 surely you agree with this?How could I not agree with two of my favorite Joseph Smith quotes?
consiglieri Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 Moat and the beam, remember?Sometimes the beam is so large we can't see to smell "mote."
consiglieri Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 consiglieri:The Plan was for Adam and Eve to gain a body, and to be tried, and tested to see if they would do what so ever the Lord, their God would command them. God did not command them to partake of the fruit, he allowed them their agency to choose.I believe this to be the accepted Primary lesson on the subject.All the Best!--Consiglieri
CV75 Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 We must sin in order to know evil, and we cannot know (or do!) good until we know evil.In other words, we are incapable of doing good unless we have done evil.I see this as we transgress and sin because our spirit is imperfect. It is not a requirement that our spirit is imperfect, but it is a consequence of choice. Adam and Eve carried this imperfection into their paradisiacal condition, and likewise we carry this condition into our mortal probation.Not so much that we must be imperfect spirits, but that we are; not so much that we must sin, but that we do sin. We are capable of choosing both good and evil, just as Adam and Eve had this capacity in the Garden of Eden before the Fall. The subsequent mortal experience allows us to advance in knowing good from evil and applying that knowledge in a physical realm, grace for grace, and choosing the good unto exaltation.
CV75 Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 The purpose of this life is to choose to enter into a saving relationship with Jesus Christ.But we, as Adam and Eve, cannot make this choice without a reason to do so.I would say that reason to choose into a saving relationship in this world with Jesus Christ is to continue what we had done pre-mortally: the reason is to advance beyond the imperfect condition into which our spirits had developed thus far, and do so with a mortal body.
zerinus Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Sometimes the beam is so large we can't see to smell "mote." "Smell"? Beam and mote again. LOL!
consiglieri Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 "Smell"? Beam and mote again. LOL! Sometimes I fear my humor is lost on you.
consiglieri Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 I see this as we transgress and sin because our spirit is imperfect. Lehi attributed our inevitable sins not to our spirit, but to the flesh "and the evil that is therein."All the Best!--Consiglieri
CV75 Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Let's say God had one commandment, and that commandment was not to kill other people.But that would not be a sufficient expression of the exalted law that He lives, and would provide insufficient training in what we are to become, and we would not be able to become like Him. His real commandment is to be like Him, by loving one another (Moses 7:33). As difficult as this is, the power is in us to choose it and allow Christ to grant us charity and perfection.
CV75 Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 "Spiritual weaknesses we cultivated in the pre-existence"?None of us became as perfect as Christ. Many were noble and great, and many talents developed, but not to the stature that Christ accomplished. I consider not being as great as Christ a spiritual deficit, expressed as weakness.
CV75 Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 But it cannot be denied that God commands us to keep a law we cannot keep, thus ensuring that we will sin.Sin is a necessary part of the plan of salvation.From an eternal perspective, God does not command us to keep a law we cannot keep, for He provided the way for us to keep it. Even in the pre-existence, we could have accomplished what Christ did, but did not. This lack of accomplishment and the resultant propensity to sin makes the plan of salvation necessary.
consiglieri Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 None of us became as perfect as Christ. Many were noble and great, and many talents developed, but not to the stature that Christ accomplished. I consider not being as great as Christ a spiritual deficit, expressed as weakness.Nobody became even close to the stature of Christ in the premortal existence because he is on a wholly different level. He was even then an exalted, resurrected God.There is no fruitful comparison that can be made.All the Best!--Consiglieri
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