Something I Want To Share

[MorningStar]

When you say community hall, are you talking about the gym?

[Blossom]

The Church building is ancient and windows were, I think, an afterthought. They just got air conditioning about 3 years ago and the furnace came over on the Mayflower.

The cat doors are in the back doors of both buildings.

The Community Hall is just a big room with a kitchen, pantry, storage room...and a bathroom.

The kitchen is old too, but has a newer stove and fridge. There are two microwaves, though. It's tiny and we all crash into each other when there's more than two of us in there.

The secretary is both for RS and the Bishop. We have a lot of people doing double-duty. No one seems to mind, though.

We have plans for a new Church but it's expensive!!

Blessings,

Blossom

[bluebell]

The Church building is ancient and windows were, I think, an afterthought. They just got air conditioning about 3 years ago and the furnace came over on the Mayflower.

The cat doors are in the back doors of both buildings.

The Community Hall is just a big room with a kitchen, pantry, storage room...and a bathroom.

The kitchen is old too, but has a newer stove and fridge. There are two microwaves, though. It's tiny and we all crash into each other when there's more than two of us in there.

The secretary is both for RS and the Bishop. We have a lot of people doing double-duty. No one seems to mind, though.

We have plans for a new Church but it's expensive!!

Blessings,

Blossom

Hey Blossom, welcome.

Your posts about certain things are kind of confusing because it doesn't match what the LDS church (as a whole) does.

What I mean is, if you guys were going to get a new building, the Church-the one in salt lake city-would pay for it. The church does not let individual wards pay money for their own buildings here in the US (or anywhere that i am aware). The building would be paid for in full before ground was even broken for it.

Also, the Bishop would NEVER have a female secretary. The exectutive secretary for the Bishop is ALWAYS male. It would also be against rules to have a super bowl party in the church on Sunday.

Do you think you have some things confused because you are so new to everything?

[emeliza]

There are wards here and there though that do things out of the norm.

I heard a story about a ward where the Bishop sort of took charge and started doing some odd ball things and the stake president didn't want to correct them because it was a relative of his or something. Anyway I guess the building started sinking or something like that (sewer underneath was collasping). My friend thinks it was the Lord intervening. Not sure if it was or not. However when the closed up the building, the members in the area all came and took items for their personal use. The piano is now in a members home. Many members in the area have the lobby furniture or pews or chairs and tables. They didn't rebuild and instead those members go to other buildings and the Church never saw fit to go after any of the 'stolen' items.

It is very odd that your ward had a Super Bowl party as I am fairly certain having a celebration like that on the Sabbath is out per the Church Handbook of Instructions....but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Does the Bishop by chance work for the Church as well? Maybe with the Church Education System? If that is the case, he might have a female secretary.

[rpn]

Branches and isolated wards can do strange things. I've been in more than one ward where the work of writing letters for the bishop was done by a woman.

[bluebell]

Branches and isolated wards can do strange things. I've been in more than one ward where the work of writing letters for the bishop was done by a woman.

It certainly could happen.

[Blossom]

I'm not sure about what you all are questioning. We had a get-together for the Superbowl where the message was all about being a team and working together. We all learned a lot.

We're a small bunch and the females outnumber men a lot and the Bishop has to choose his helpers from what he has. He chose a female.

I told you all we were not big and needed money.

Here in our area is a mess. No one has approved the new building as far as I know. Too many are unemployed. The economy has tanked. I'm not trying to be rude, but churches are hard hit and from what I hear we are no different.

Maybe I don't know because I am new, but yes, maybe we do something different and maybe found other solutions to problems but no harm, no foul. I'm just telling you what I have here.

I am getting the idea that my Church doesn't exactly meet standards. I thought this Church was good.

Now that bothers me...a lot. Now instead of baptism, you folks have raised questions that I don't know what to do with as I tried to tell you I was new and only talking from what I see and from what I have experienced. My missionaries said it was okay to say what happens.

I didn't see what was so wrong but now i have to question our Church and our Bishop because I didn't see anything wrong, but I'm new.

Thank you for being here.

Blessings,

Blossom

[Calm]

I'm not sure about what you all are questioning. We had a get-together for the Superbowl where the message was all about being a team and working together. We all learned a lot.

We're a small bunch and the females outnumber men a lot and the Bishop has to choose his helpers from what he has. He chose a female.

I told you all we were not big and needed money.

Please read the whole post to see that I am not making assumptions, just trying to provide explanations about some of the reactions you have received...

Blossom, one of the complaints some people have about the Church is it is the same no matter where you go....this is one of the things people like as well, one can feel at home when walking into a building halfway across the world from your own ward. So when someone starts relating experiences that are very different than the usual people start wondering what is going on.

It is simply that there is a standard way of doing things in the Church...things are much more centralized than in Protestant churches or even in Catholic circles as I believe they own property by the Diocese rather than the whole Church. Thus even if a local membership can't afford to pay for a building, if the membership numbers are there, the building will get built and maintained by the central Church administration. That is how church buildings get built in areas of poverty stricken members such as Haiti etc. where LDS buildings were able to be used as shelter because the Church took the extra expense of building to withstand hurricanes, earthquakes, etc.

If you have heard about the Church being hard hit, it would be in the area of fast offerings, but even there local authorities can appeal to Salt Lake City for additional funds.

Also, the vast majority of Bishops and Branch Presidents are going to have men as executive secretaries. It is church practice not to have 'mixed' presidencies, thus the Bishopric including the secretary and the clerks are men as well as Sunday School, Priesthood and Young Men presidencies while Primary, Relief Society and Young Women are all women.

I have been told that there are a few wards and branches which are forced to have women hold positions that are normally held by men (when priesthood authority is not required) due to small numbers so I am not saying it is not possible, just highly unlikely.

Not a few people in the Church see watching football on Sunday as breaking the Sabbath and the Church has also issued guidelines that instruct wards not to show commercial events in their buildings (it is against the law to do so without paying for the privilege as it is considering a public, not private gathering plus they do not want to be thought to be endorsing nonchurch produced products...as a ward librarian I have been taught that we are to even be very careful about what we copy and what videos are shown in church classes even if created by LDS members---but not authorized by the Church itself---for preaching of the gospel). If your church showed the game---which is what it sounded like by calling it a Superbowl party---then they were definitely breaking the rules. If they just had a social gathering to give members something to do besides watch the game, that is something completely different, but from the information you originally gave us there was no way to tell....sounds like it was the second.

The Church has these standards for a variety of reason, it makes for a more efficient use of funds for the whole Church and not just for well off areas, it creates a safer environment for members overall, it makes for a more consistent approach to teaching thus making sure that members who attend on a regular basis are all on the same page as far as what are core doctrines, and it generally means that members from all over the world can work together because they know 'how things are done'.

So that's what is going on with the 'standard' issue. You are new to your community out there and don't know all the details and you don't use the typical terms that LDS use to describe things because you haven't been around long enough to learn them (for example, generally we call the hall where we have parties in the church building the "Cultural Hall", a "Community Hall" probably suggests to most LDS something run by their local town or city government (we have a community hall attached to our city center here in Mapleton for example but we don't hold church parties there even if the majority of Mapleton is LDS, we hold them in the "Cultural Halls" or in the parks).

-----

As far as being suspicious of your honesty....you need to understand that from time to time we get individuals who post stories much like yours who are not sincere and who end up telling some horror story about how abusive LDS are, how unloving and unChristlike, etc. basically either trying to set board members (and thus LDS in general) to look bad or because they take some twisted form of entertainment from deceiving others. One of the most common themes in these types of posters happens to be....tithing, in other words they try to make it appear that the main reason the Church does missionary work is to drive up income through tithing. Another theme is to claim that they were treated like scum at the local church or on this board because they were different, etc.

When one of your first posts told about how you were paying 15% tithing instead of the usual 10% and you were still a nonmember, this was almost 'textbook' for what one might expect from someone playing these deceptive games I have described. However, you have made it clear it was your own choice and desire and not the Bishop or missionaries pressuring you at all and this is very different from what we would expect from someone playing mindgames. Then you mentioned the woman slapping you---again something that would not be unexpected at all from someone pretending to be a sincere investigator who was not. But there again your further explanation does not match up with what we would expect from the gameplayer.

There have been posters known who have gone for ages playing a devout LDS who ended up not being LDS at all or a sincere investigator desiring baptism; more often they are exposed pretty quickly on for being liars, but then they pretended to be all offended because we don't believe their obvious lies and start attacking us as being unChristlike and saying things like "no wonder my friends warned me against the mormons" or "you people are the reason I could never belong to your church" trying to make board members feel guilty about their perfectly understandable reaction to someone trying to suckerpunch them.

There is a much rarer poster who like yourself just happens to be new enough to the Church to say things in confusing (to us used to a certain 'dialect') ways and who happens to be in an area that doesn't do things in the usual way (not wrong if this is because they have no choice due to limitations in numbers, etc. but troubling if it is because they think they know what's best and feel no need to at least try and follow the guidelines the Church puts out for various administrative polices....sounds like it's the former, not the latter reason for your ward). However, the only real way to tell the difference between the sincere poster and the trickster is how they respond long term. If you are very patient and forgiving with us and stick around long enough for us to get to know you, if you understand why some posters act suspicious of you but choose not to take offense, if you just keep up your overall positive outlook to things LDS you will have demonstrated that you are sincere in your comments and will be accepted for what you are. Someone who is sincere must be very frustrated and put off by being questioned like this and tempted to go elsewhere and if this is your decision, so be it. But if you decide to stick around long enough for us to get to know you, then I think you will find this is a great online community to belong to...though be prepared if you venture into the other areas of the board as it can get nasty from time time as critics and even occasionally members attack each other inappropriately (sometimes winning the debate becomes more important to a poster than helping others understand) though the moderators try hard at promoting a civil atmosphere (so feel free to report anything you think is over the top and the moderators will generally take care of it though sometimes it takes time because they are volunteers with real lives and not on the board 24/7).

It is one of the unfortunate effects of the anonymity of the Internet that we get to endure the presence of deceivers and those who enjoy creating contention and promoting anger, distrust and even hatred. It is one of the fortunate effects of the Internet that it also gives us opportunities to talk to a variety of people from all over the globe with different experiences and different POVs. We each have to choose whether it's worth it to endure the first so we can enjoy the second.

[Calm]

Some recommendations to help with the confusion when new to the LDS faith:

Read the manuals available online (your ward library should have copies as well you can borrow or you can buy them online through the church distribution center...ask your ward librarian for help if you need it...for very cheaply, just a couple of dollars), specifically the Gospel Principles one if your missionaries haven't given that to you already---great for teaching the basic doctrine and how our faith fits together, not that good for teaching the cultural side of things as that is not its purpose.

see here for online copy, nice because you can link to the scriptures for quick references: http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=02df1f7962d43210VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=d7561b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

Also I would recommend the two volume LDS Woman, Part A and Part B, gets into the how tos more, though still pretty basic (and remember the 'ideal' or typical way is taught, but one is allowed to adapt certain things if one has limitations in that area, check with your church leaders if you have questions about what is and isn't appropriate, I would talk to several to get different ideas on how to make things work for you, then think about it and pray asking the Father which one He wants to you to do).

http://lds.org/manual/the-latter-day-saint-woman-basic-manual-for-women-part-a?lang=eng

http://lds.org/manual/the-latter-day-saint-woman-basic-manual-for-women-part-b?lang=eng

To see things from the man's side which can help with understanding what is expected of those who hold the priesthood and how the priesthood is supposed to interact in our lives even if we don't personally possess it or have it in our homes....

http://lds.org/manual/duties-and-blessings-of-the-priesthood-basic-manual-for-priesthood-holders-part-a?lang=eng

http://lds.org/manual/duties-and-blessings-of-the-priesthood-basic-manual-for-priesthood-holders-part-b?lang=eng

And if you are interested in how things are typically done, there is always part of the Church Handbook of Instructions which is useful for those who want to know the basics of their callings as well as some of the recommendations for certain policies, etc.

http://lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church?lang=eng

Handbook 1 is for Stake Presidencies and Bishoprics and not the general membership, but if you have a question from a topic in one of those, then ask your bishop and he may choose to either read it to you, let you read it yourself, or paraphase it. My opinion is that they don't put that handbook online so that members who are prone to be busybodies and know it alls aren't using the handbook to go to the bishop or other leaders and criticize how they are doing things because the Church leadership does want their leaders to rely mostly on the Spirit and use the handbook wisely, but not obsessively.

[Calm]

And a nonchurch produced book that may be very helpful for understanding church culture and the way 'things are done'....

A Convert's Guide to Mormon Life: http://www.amazon.com/Converts-Guide-Mormon-Life-Latter-day/dp/157008520X

Kind of like a "for Dummies" book, I found it well written and very informative and it doesn't take itself too seriously.

If you are the type that likes to fasttrack into a community, then this is probably worth your time and money to invest in.

If you ever want to get into emergency preparedness, their Food Storage for the Clueless is the best book I've seen on the subject, though I don't think it's published anymore, it would be worth it to get a used copy, save you lots of money in the long run by teaching you how to buy and use food storage efficiently.

[emeliza]

I'm not sure about what you all are questioning.

I wouldn't worry about it. Your experiences are necessarily the normal experiences one has in the Church, but since you are in a small ward or branch, it isn't completely unbelievable. Smaller areas have to do what they have to do.

I am getting the idea that my Church doesn't exactly meet standards. I thought this Church was good.

If you are happy with your ward/branch, don't worry about it. There are some things that work well for some that wouldn't work well on a larger scale. Take the mice issue. In our ward, they would have to put out traps. We share our building with another ward and there are people in both wards that are allergic to cats.

Smaller wards/branchs do things to make it work. When I was on vacation last summer I attended a branch that was on an Indian reservation. There were probably only 15 members that lived in that area. The branch presidency was mostly made up of people who lived further away (an hour) and were called by the Church to attend this branch so that they would have enough priesthood leaders. It was interesting.

In Minnesota when I have been on vacation, their branch spans a huge amount of land and they did things a bit different than my ward.

The lessons in both of these places were the same (though English was not the primary language on the reservation) and that is what is important. They taught of Christ, they witnessed of Christ and they were exmaples of Christ. If that is what you are learning, then I wouldn't worry so much about it.

However I also wouldn't get upset when someone questions something that is different than what we have experienced. It is too easy to get offended and just easier in general to let things go.

[rpn]

Blosson, I also don't get the skepticism. But it helps to know that some posters really have never had any but the most traditional experiences in how the church is administered. And what works in your ward is perfectly okay. You don't need to critique it or wonder if people are doing right, just because posters here don't do it in their wards. One fundamental teaching of the gospel is that each member is entitled to seek their own confirmation of the spirit that what they are taught, and what they are asked to do is of God. You can trust your leaders. It is their leaders who are in charge of correcting anyone who isn't doing what they should be doing.

So really, really. No Worries. We all learn line upon line.

Edited February 9, 2011 by rpn

[Blossom]

Please read the whole post to see that I am not making assumptions, just trying to provide explanations about some of the reactions you have received...

Blossom, one of the complaints some people have about the Church is it is the same no matter where you go....this is one of the things people like as well, one can feel at home when walking into a building halfway across the world from your own ward. So when someone starts relating experiences that are very different than the usual people start wondering what is going on.

It is simply that there is a standard way of doing things in the Church...things are much more centralized than in Protestant churches or even in Catholic circles as I believe they own property by the Diocese rather than the whole Church. Thus even if a local membership can't afford to pay for a building, if the membership numbers are there, the building will get built and maintained by the central Church administration. That is how church buildings get built in areas of poverty stricken members such as Haiti etc. where LDS buildings were able to be used as shelter because the Church took the extra expense of building to withstand hurricanes, earthquakes, etc.

If you have heard about the Church being hard hit, it would be in the area of fast offerings, but even there local authorities can appeal to Salt Lake City for additional funds.

Also, the vast majority of Bishops and Branch Presidents are going to have men as executive secretaries. It is church practice not to have 'mixed' presidencies, thus the Bishopric including the secretary and the clerks are men as well as Sunday School, Priesthood and Young Men presidencies while Primary, Relief Society and Young Women are all women.

I have been told that there are a few wards and branches which are forced to have women hold positions that are normally held by men (when priesthood authority is not required) due to small numbers so I am not saying it is not possible, just highly unlikely.

Not a few people in the Church see watching football on Sunday as breaking the Sabbath and the Church has also issued guidelines that instruct wards not to show commercial events in their buildings (it is against the law to do so without paying for the privilege as it is considering a public, not private gathering plus they do not want to be thought to be endorsing nonchurch produced products...as a ward librarian I have been taught that we are to even be very careful about what we copy and what videos are shown in church classes even if created by LDS members---but not authorized by the Church itself---for preaching of the gospel). If your church showed the game---which is what it sounded like by calling it a Superbowl party---then they were definitely breaking the rules. If they just had a social gathering to give members something to do besides watch the game, that is something completely different, but from the information you originally gave us there was no way to tell....sounds like it was the second.

The Church has these standards for a variety of reason, it makes for a more efficient use of funds for the whole Church and not just for well off areas, it creates a safer environment for members overall, it makes for a more consistent approach to teaching thus making sure that members who attend on a regular basis are all on the same page as far as what are core doctrines, and it generally means that members from all over the world can work together because they know 'how things are done'.

So that's what is going on with the 'standard' issue. You are new to your community out there and don't know all the details and you don't use the typical terms that LDS use to describe things because you haven't been around long enough to learn them (for example, generally we call the hall where we have parties in the church building the "Cultural Hall", a "Community Hall" probably suggests to most LDS something run by their local town or city government (we have a community hall attached to our city center here in Mapleton for example but we don't hold church parties there even if the majority of Mapleton is LDS, we hold them in the "Cultural Halls" or in the parks).

-----

As far as being suspicious of your honesty....you need to understand that from time to time we get individuals who post stories much like yours who are not sincere and who end up telling some horror story about how abusive LDS are, how unloving and unChristlike, etc. basically either trying to set board members (and thus LDS in general) to look bad or because they take some twisted form of entertainment from deceiving others. One of the most common themes in these types of posters happens to be....tithing, in other words they try to make it appear that the main reason the Church does missionary work is to drive up income through tithing. Another theme is to claim that they were treated like scum at the local church or on this board because they were different, etc.

When one of your first posts told about how you were paying 15% tithing instead of the usual 10% and you were still a nonmember, this was almost 'textbook' for what one might expect from someone playing these deceptive games I have described. However, you have made it clear it was your own choice and desire and not the Bishop or missionaries pressuring you at all and this is very different from what we would expect from someone playing mindgames. Then you mentioned the woman slapping you---again something that would not be unexpected at all from someone pretending to be a sincere investigator who was not. But there again your further explanation does not match up with what we would expect from the gameplayer.

There have been posters known who have gone for ages playing a devout LDS who ended up not being LDS at all or a sincere investigator desiring baptism; more often they are exposed pretty quickly on for being liars, but then they pretended to be all offended because we don't believe their obvious lies and start attacking us as being unChristlike and saying things like "no wonder my friends warned me against the mormons" or "you people are the reason I could never belong to your church" trying to make board members feel guilty about their perfectly understandable reaction to someone trying to suckerpunch them.

There is a much rarer poster who like yourself just happens to be new enough to the Church to say things in confusing (to us used to a certain 'dialect') ways and who happens to be in an area that doesn't do things in the usual way (not wrong if this is because they have no choice due to limitations in numbers, etc. but troubling if it is because they think they know what's best and feel no need to at least try and follow the guidelines the Church puts out for various administrative polices....sounds like it's the former, not the latter reason for your ward). However, the only real way to tell the difference between the sincere poster and the trickster is how they respond long term. If you are very patient and forgiving with us and stick around long enough for us to get to know you, if you understand why some posters act suspicious of you but choose not to take offense, if you just keep up your overall positive outlook to things LDS you will have demonstrated that you are sincere in your comments and will be accepted for what you are. Someone who is sincere must be very frustrated and put off by being questioned like this and tempted to go elsewhere and if this is your decision, so be it. But if you decide to stick around long enough for us to get to know you, then I think you will find this is a great online community to belong to...though be prepared if you venture into the other areas of the board as it can get nasty from time time as critics and even occasionally members attack each other inappropriately (sometimes winning the debate becomes more important to a poster than helping others understand) though the moderators try hard at promoting a civil atmosphere (so feel free to report anything you think is over the top and the moderators will generally take care of it though sometimes it takes time because they are volunteers with real lives and not on the board 24/7).

It is one of the unfortunate effects of the anonymity of the Internet that we get to endure the presence of deceivers and those who enjoy creating contention and promoting anger, distrust and even hatred. It is one of the fortunate effects of the Internet that it also gives us opportunities to talk to a variety of people from all over the globe with different experiences and different POVs. We each have to choose whether it's worth it to endure the first so we can enjoy the second.

[Blossom]

NOOOO! Look, my ward might be different but NOOO! There are no horror stories. I am NOT some person who ran afoul of the Church.

How can there be any horror stories and all this negative stuff from me? How?

I love this Church. Maybe I don't know the workings and all, but it works for me and I love all of us.

Please give me a chance. I have never said anything negative. I don't have anything negative to say. My ward may be different. But the Bishop and Elders don't have seven wives, I am not promised to five guys in Celestial Heaven, and we women don't dress in long skirts with those dumb apron-things on our heads.

Yes, I'm new and haven't paid attention to how the Church is maintained and run. To be honest, that is the LEAST of my concerns. I already know this Church is true. I am studying the Gospel through the Book Of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl Of Great Price, and the Joseph Smith translation of the Bible as was revealed to our Prophet.

And as far as I know, I love them all, even the lady who slapped me, and I get to clean the kitchen.

This actually made me cry. Please don't compare me to others. I'm just me, is all, Just Blossom.

I don't know of these other people. I'm sorry they hurt this forum.

Wow, this hurts, but only time will tell, I think, if I haven't been reported yet to the staff.

Being compared to those who wuold cause harm is very hurtful, but I realize you all don't know me.

I'm trying to defend myself but I'm also saying I understand.

Ouch.

I love you all.

Blessings,

Blossom

[TAO]

Hey guys, I can vouch that Blossom is a kind person and not here to do any bad, so let's please lay-off of her. Thanks =).

If she is not, you can hold me responsible. But we as LDS should not be suspecting of people, giving people the benefit of the doubt, as that is one thing that will help us stand out from others.

Now let's let this issue blow over! =D.

Best Wishes,

TAO

EDIT: Also, Blossom, I responded to your PM about cats =).

Edited February 9, 2011 by TAO

[Blossom]

Oh, dear. Thank you, Tao, you are so kind to me.

I understand the concern of me being one to turn tail (a cat thing -- Tao and other cat owners will get it) -- and come down on this place and hurt people. Tao, you are safe in defending me and I thank you very much.

I honestly and seriously cannot find anything wrong with this Church. I mean it. There is nothing wrong with this. That is all there is to it. I spoke of baptism with my hubby and he is all for it, since he has begun studying and attending for about four weeks now.

I think Tao is right, to let this go, and let's think about all the positive things the Church gives us, and let those unfortunate folks go on with our prayers. I am new, yes, and I also understand I may be treated harshly or sternly, corrected, and suspected of trying to hurt people or told I don't know some thing and accused of some ulterior motive. Of course I don't know much about the inner workings of the Church!

Dang, my focus has been on the books and trying to be worthy of baptism. What really bothers me is being told I'm something I am not. That was not fair.

Anyway, let's take Tao's advice and let this go.

Either I spend forever defending myself or I can enjoy myself in here and learn without accusations. Let's see what happens.

Yes I am terribly hurt.

BUT -- I love you all.

Thank you, Tao.

Blessings,

Blossom

[Calm]

dup

Edited February 9, 2011 by calmoriah

[Calm]

NOOOO! Look, my ward might be different but NOOO! There are no horror stories. I am NOT some person who ran afoul of the Church.

Blossom, I'm sorry you misunderstood, I was hoping if you read the whole post you would get what I was saying, but perhaps I tried to include too much information at once. I am not saying you told any horror stories, I'm saying that the gameplayers who come in make themselves appear end up telling horror stories after they've made themselves appear sincere or enthusiastic about the Church....and THEN they turn around and start implying bad things about it.

You have not done so...you've mentioned unusual things but you haven't expanded them to the point where they start to appear as if something is going wrong in your life because of the Church, that is the difference between what you have done and what the gameplayers that come to this board from time to time do.

Let me try again to describe how the gameplayers set things up---they come in with descriptions about how they love the Church, how excited they are, how they are almost ready to be baptized. They do this because this is what real sincere investigators do. But the gameplayers make things just a shade off and then a bit more off and then finally way off...that is when the horror stories come completely out.

You've only talked about how much you've enjoyed the Church and its people, the one negative incident you described was resolved for and by you in a very positive manner...very different from what anyone would expect from one of the gameplayers....so you don't compare to what they do.

My long post was just trying to tell you why some posters were wary and cautious about accepting you, I was trying to reassure you that as time went on and no gameplaying behaviour showed up that they would relax and you wouldn't be getting comments about something sounding strange.

I hope this makes it clearer.

I would like to point out as well that even those people who were wondering if you were a potential gameplayer did not state for sure that you were, just that they were wondering. I would be surprised if anyone was or is convinced that you are something that you are not. It was not something personal because it was judging by statistics not by what you had done yourself.

Again, hope this is clearer that my intent wasn't to accuse or to make it appear that others were accusing you, just trying to explain the wary comments so that you would understand what was going on and not get too put off by them and just be patient and give people enough time to get to know you.

Talking about good things about the Church is a favourite pastime of most posters here, so I don't think you will feel out of place if you give us enough time to get to know you and you to get to know the weirdness of this board (it is a very unusual board in my experience, there are a lot of posters who come on and tell us that they are suspicious of many of us and our intents so I think many of us know how you can feel thrown by hearing that someone thinks you are not what you appear to be).

Either I spend forever defending myself or I can enjoy myself in here and learn without accusations. Let's see what happens.

The best thing you can do is to just enjoy yourself and not be bothered with anything that feels like an accusation, so I hope you can do this. Edited February 9, 2011 by calmoriah

[Calm]

PS: I suggested the books because you seem eager to learn about all aspects of the Church, not because there is anything wrong with not knowing everything at once...even longtime members learn new things about the Church and how it functions from time to time. One very nice thing about this board is the broad range of experiences that people have had so that either they can provide you with an answer or direct you to someplace or someone that does. I have learned tons of stuff since I joined this board (or rather the board that came before this one) and I was born in the Church and have been active for half a century in it.

One of the reasons I love this Church is there is always something new I can learn about and the Church itself encourages people to keep learning. Outside the Library of the Church's main university, BYU, is posted (at least it was there when I went, but that was quite awhile ago, lol) the motto "The Glory of God is intelligence" and I believe that with all my mind, heart and soul and this is a great place to gather up intelligence imo.

[Blossom]

Blossom, I'm sorry you misunderstood, I was hoping if you read the whole post you would get what I was saying, but perhaps I tried to include too much information at once. I am not saying you told any horror stories, I'm saying that the gameplayers who come in make themselves appear end up telling horror stories after they've made themselves appear sincere or enthusiastic about the Church....and THEN they turn around and start implying bad things about it.

You have not done so...you've mentioned unusual things but you haven't expanded them to the point where they start to appear as if something is going wrong in your life because of the Church, that is the difference between what you have done and what the gameplayers that come to this board from time to time do.

Let me try again to describe how the gameplayers set things up---they come in with descriptions about how they love the Church, how excited they are, how they are almost ready to be baptized. They do this because this is what real sincere investigators do. But the gameplayers make things just a shade off and then a bit more off and then finally way off...that is when the horror stories come completely out.

You've only talked about how much you've enjoyed the Church and its people, the one negative incident you described was resolved for and by you in a very positive manner...very different from what anyone would expect from one of the gameplayers....so you don't compare to what they do.

My long post was just trying to tell you why some posters were wary and cautious about accepting you, I was trying to reassure you that as time went on and no gameplaying behaviour showed up that they would relax and you wouldn't be getting comments about something sounding strange.

I hope this makes it clearer.

I would like to point out as well that even those people who were wondering if you were a potential gameplayer did not state for sure that you were, just that they were wondering. I would be surprised if anyone was or is convinced that you are something that you are not. It was not something personal because it was judging by statistics not by what you had done yourself.

Again, hope this is clearer that my intent wasn't to accuse or to make it appear that others were accusing you, just trying to explain the wary comments so that you would understand what was going on and not get too put off by them and just be patient and give people enough time to get to know you.

Talking about good things about the Church is a favourite pastime of most posters here, so I don't think you will feel out of place if you give us enough time to get to know you and you to get to know the weirdness of this board (it is a very unusual board in my experience, there are a lot of posters who come on and tell us that they are suspicious of many of us and our intents so I think many of us know how you can feel thrown by hearing that someone thinks you are not what you appear to be).

The best thing you can do is to just enjoy yourself and not be bothered with anything that feels like an accusation, so I hope you can do this.

Oh. I had to read this twice; I'm sorry.

First of all, I DO understand. I came in here worried to begin with. I don't know a lot of things yet about my Church. Honestly, I only know I am so happy and maybe we do things weirdly but I am happy here.

I guess I can see what people do, in fussing about how bad the Church is or whatever dang problem. But see, this Church is so different. There are rules. There are expectations. There are goals. And this is how the Church IS....see?

I am sure many are suspicious of me. I understand because I am new to this and focusing on the Gospel and all the important things. I'm simply not too smart when it comes to the running of the Church and all that. I only know what I have seen and the fun I am having, and on the other side, I'm trying to grasp all our doctrines and Gospel and I'm trying to be useful while I am learning.

You will never, ever hear anything negative about my chosen Church. Should I have an issue, this is NOT the place for it. I did get upset and posted about being slapped...AFTER I went to our Bishop. But that incident did not ever make me say anything negative. See, she is mentally ill. Ouch.

I do love this Church and I am happy. I cannot think of one negative thing to say about my Church. Oh wait....yes I can, and I fussed.

Three inches of snow on the ground and they cancelled services!!

I drive a Subaru! I could have gotten a bunch of people to Church. But there's people who do not know how to drive in snow and ice, then there are the smart ones who stay home when the roads are hazardous. So there you are. Services cancelled -- although I offered to drive my brothers and sisters to and from Church.

I am not here to hurt, and that is the truth. I am here for learning and listening to all you.

I hope this makes sense. I hope you see what I am about. I guess I have to let time do its thing; I'm worried about being kicked out because of being dumb about how my Church works.

.And another apology, I'm not very educated yet but it will change, I promise.

Thank you all for being here.

Blessings,

Blossom

Edited February 10, 2011 by Blossom