Zakuska Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 That is like asking which colors she should not wear. It is a personal question which is neither correct or incorrect and dependent on the context of the time when the decision is made, not necessarily the commandments.As the preacher said...Ecc 1 1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.Don't try and eat the Elephant all at once. Do the things in the time they are aloted. Raise your kids while they are young. During that time they should be your focus. And when you become an empty nester, then worry about the dead and geneology.
consiglieri Posted January 19, 2011 Author Posted January 19, 2011 Teaching this kid about "Grace" more would not have done anything to save him - reducing the amount of mind-numbing beauracratic crap he was expected to do would have.More and more I am seeing what you are saying.Judging from the comments of some other posters, it seems the piling on of burdens is justified as long as we talk a little on the side about grace.All the Best!--Consiglieri
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 So you are saying there are times when it is acceptable to not keep the commandments?Is that what you are saying? Remember the prodical son and stuff.
mercyngrace Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 More and more I am seeing what you are saying.Judging from the comments of some other posters, it seems the piling on of burdens is justified as long as we talk a little on the side about grace.All the Best!--ConsiglieriI think a lot of self-imposed piling on goes on. Pharisitical traditions develop because of the hardness of our hearts. We seek the safety of enumerated dos and don'ts when we should be aspiring to the freedom of two great commandments upon which hang all the law and the prophets.
consiglieri Posted January 19, 2011 Author Posted January 19, 2011 Where does it it say in the scriptures that God will grant his saving grace to those who have no faith in Christ and are unrepentant?Nowhere.What the Book of Mormon seems to say all over the place is that evil people (as defined by their acts) are saved solely through their faith in Christ and repentance with no outward "good" acts whatsoever.I hope that makes my meaning plainer.All the Best!--Consiglieri
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Teaching this kid about "Grace" more would not have done anything to save him - reducing the amount of mind-numbing beauracratic crap he was expected to do would have.You make a great point.
Jeff K. Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 You must go to Stephen Robinson's church.I just can't figure out what church his wife keeps going to . . . All the Best!--ConsiglieriOr perhaps you aren't listening.
Jeff K. Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 As the preacher said...Ecc 1 1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.Don't try and eat the Elephant all at once. Do the things in the time they are aloted. Raise your kids while they are young. During that time they should be your focus. And when you become an empty nester, then worry about the dead and geneology.Careful Z, you are taking the thunder out of Consig's complaints.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Nowhere.What the Book of Mormon seems to say all over the place is that evil people (as defined by their acts) are saved solely through their faith in Christ and repentance with no outward "good" acts whatsoever.I hope that makes my meaning plainer.All the Best!--ConsiglieriWhat about those pesky verses that tell us that baptism is the gate and none can be saved expect the enter in at that gate? For straight is the gate and few be there that find it.
Jeff K. Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 More and more I am seeing what you are saying.Judging from the comments of some other posters, it seems the piling on of burdens is justified as long as we talk a little on the side about grace.All the Best!--ConsiglieriI suppose this is Consigs way of acknowledging he was wrong that yes we do speak of grace, and often. I guess that is the best we can expect from him. Wonder when he will more obviously admit to his error?
Zakuska Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 CV75, Jeff.K,I changed the emphasis in the sacrament prayer.I hope you don't mind . . .The absolutely most important thing we do on Sunday is partake of the sacrament, where grace is taught, remembered, reflected upon, witnessed, rendered, and received in an astoundingly personal, spiritual manner:O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.Consig seems to think the spirit comes totally by the grace of God and nothing else. I think he has me on Ignore... but the portion he has bolded... is actually scripture...1 John 322 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.1 John 3:24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.Acts 5:32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.We can't have the spirit without obeying Gods commandments and the sacrament prayer affirms that truth.
Jeff K. Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Your wife wore a wedding dress to her college graduation?At least she graduated.
consiglieri Posted January 19, 2011 Author Posted January 19, 2011 I suppose this is Consigs way of acknowledging he was wrong that yes we do speak of grace, and often. I guess that is the best we can expect from him. Wonder when he will more obviously admit to his error?Does it matter how much Mormons speak of grace when they speak of it incorrectly?
Jeff K. Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Or perhaps you aren't listening Consig. I do not believe apostle and prophets speak of it incorrectly, I do however see that you don't seem to have much of a clue as to its meaning since you have yet to enlighten us with your point (rather than complaining about the points others make).We wait with baited breath for you to fully acknowledge the error of your OP
CV75 Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 I changed the emphasis in the sacrament prayer.I hope you don't mind . . .Not at all. There is grace to be found everywhere in the sacrament prayer. It is by grace that we keep His commandments, and is by grace that we may always have his Spirit to be with us. No better way to teach grace than to have an ordinance where His followers can experience it first-hand, weekly. The various lessons about grace are ancillary, just as the lessons about Christ are ancillary to actually knowing and loving Him.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Does it matter how much Mormons speak of grace when they speak of it incorrectly?Kicking the hornets nest much?
mnn727 Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 One wonders if Consig has been listening?I've been in a number of Stakes and Wards and have always been taught grace. Perhaps Consig was out when we were teaching from the BoM in Sunday School -- oh wait, HE taught Sunday School, but then he threw away the manual and taught what he wanted to - so who's to blame for grace not being taught in his ward?2 Ne. 10: 24 24 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved. 2 Ne. 25: 23 23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. 2 Ne. 2: 8 8 Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.
mnn727 Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 For all the people whinning about the church and how we teach about grace and "burden" member with too many callings. I hear the EV church does not require you to do anything more than confess Jesus.And pay the preacher to tell them what they want to hear.
consiglieri Posted January 19, 2011 Author Posted January 19, 2011 I've been in a number of Stakes and Wards and have always been taught grace. Perhaps Consig was out when we were teaching from the BoM in Sunday School -- oh wait, HE taught Sunday School, but then he threw away the manual and taught what he wanted to - so who's to blame for grace not being taught in his ward?This is what happens when you post on a thread without reading it through, I suppose.All the Best!--Consiglieri
consiglieri Posted January 19, 2011 Author Posted January 19, 2011 Kicking the hornets nest much?I prefer poking it with a long stick.
Palerider Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 That's a great scripture, but I don't think it's applicable to this conversation.We are talking about 'saving grace' specifically (at least, that's what i'm talking about) and no where do the scriptures teach that God grants His saving grace to the evil as well as the good, to the just as well as the unjust.I agree that God grants grace to many, but i think that the grace that justifies us is conditionally given only when we do the things He has told us we must do to access that.If you've got scriptures that speak against that in regards to THAT kind of grace, then i would be very happy to see them (and i'm not saying that in a snide or snarky manner).I think "Grace" is "Grace" regardless of where one is in their progression.
consiglieri Posted January 19, 2011 Author Posted January 19, 2011 We wait with baited breath for you to fully acknowledge the error of your OPShow me the error and I'll oblige.
Zakuska Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 I prefer poking it with a long stick.Is consig using reverse Phsycology on us all to bring out the truth on Grace and works? IOW, are we rats in a maze?
mercyngrace Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Kicking the hornets nest much?For some reason I am reminded of these words...I do many things to break down superstition, and I will break it down. Sometimes things need a little shaking up.
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