Top Ten Anti-Mormon Arguments

[malkie]

Are you starting from the assumption that "arguments against the Book of Mormon" are Anti-Mormon in the sense that that label is habitually applied - seemingly with an implication of malicious intent?

Not at all.

And I considered that before I made the thread title.

I just put it that way for brevity's sake.

No offense intended.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Thx. No offense taken, or intended on my part. I was just curious about which parts of the overlapping senses of 'against ... Mormon' and 'anti-Mormon' you intended.

[why me]

Wait a second, your stake presidency wants to teach a bunch of 16-19 year old boys about common anti-mormon claims? Is there not any worry that these boys are impressionable and may actually be hearing some of this stuff for the first time, perhaps even becoming curious about something that they were not curious about before?

Sounds like a rather dangerous fireside to me.

H.

But I think that it would be good to get it all out now than later when they are on their mission. I think that it is a wonderful idea that the stake is doing this. It shows that the lds church is not hiding what the critics are claiming. Rather, they are putting it on the table. I also think that such classes should be given to all members in a sunday school setting. I think that the church would be stronger and firmer when members are steeled with the criticism their possible answers.

[why me]

maybe presenting anyones idea of the top ten arguements is for the puopse of actually requiring these missionaries to take a deep look inward while contemplating and preparing for a mission?

I think that it is a good sign of openness. Also, we have no idea what exactly is the root causse for the fireside or discussion. But it is a very good idea and I hope that such presentations can be given church wide.

[maupayman]

I don't think the stake presidency wants me to talk about the Book of Mormon's soft underbelly, Chris.

I have no answer to this, at least not one that is faith promoting.

But it does give me a good idea, that the first thing I should talk about is just saying you don't know if you don't know.

We think we are supposed to have an answer to every question.

I find that the people asking the questions are usually okay with an upfront and honest, "I don't know."

It's when you give them shaky answers that they start going south.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

This is an excellent point, Consig. Apologetics can be more damaging than good, sometimes.

[maupayman]

Reading the OT... one could conclude that Jews were more intrested in Child Sacrifice and burning their kids and leaving them in the Garbage dumps for dogs and vulture to tare.

Almost like its not a history worth building on....

[maupayman]

If you are religious, there are only two choices... Catholic or LDS. Either the true Church never left, or it's been restored. The Evangelicals have no leg to stand on, as you can't get good fruit from a bad tree.

I think you need to replace "religious" with "christian". Over half the world would disagree with you on this one.

[maupayman]

I think it says a lot that we are NOT training our missionaries in how to discredit other religions. We share our beliefs and invite others to consider our beliefs. We do attempt to convert...but generally do it by affirmation not by attacking.

Six

Right, you guys wait til the fifth discussion to discredit other religions, when you teach the apostacy.

[maupayman]

Hey Consig, I served in the Philippines where the only "antimormon" claims I encountered was Adam-God theory. But I think this brings up an important point for young LDS, that prophets have been wrong, even when speaking as prophets. I think this could be a very valuable lesson for young LDS, which is not often covered in Sunday school. Best of luck with your presentation.

[mnn727]

Missionaries go out to preach the Gospel, not to refute every argument. There is nothing in Preach My Gospel or even the old lesson set about countering arguments. I know members would like the missionaries to do everything but thats not how it works. I would be willing to bet that every ward had someone good at refuting anti arguements if they run up against that type, what I am sensing is that your Stake President is not looking to get deep into it, but to make them aware of arguments.

Having said that, I do like giving them some general idea's of what they will hear and the answers to it.

1st "I don't know" is a perfectly good answer - "I don't know, but let me find someone who does to meet with you" is a better answer.

2nd They need to find out what the Mission Presidents feelings about this is as that is who they will report to (and to a lessor extent the Bishops of the wards they are assigned to.)

Those are the 2 things I would pound into them at both the beginning and end of your talk.

I would then touch on such things as DNA, no new scripture after Revelations, How the Bible was put together and also give them Bruce R McConkies talk after the Preisthood ban was lifted, about receiving further light and knowledge and following the living Prophet. I also would suggest that they concentrate some heavy duty study time on the New Testament as that is the common ground with other Christians that they will need to build upon.

[Vance]

Hey Consig, I served in the Philippines where the only "antimormon" claims I encountered was Adam-God theory. But I think this brings up an important point for young LDS, that prophets have been wrong, even when speaking as prophets. I think this could be a very valuable lesson for young LDS, which is not often covered in Sunday school. Best of luck with your presentation.

I served in the Philippines as well and I never heard that one. You apparently never read any of the Iglesia ni Christo publications.

[maupayman]

I served in the Philippines as well and I never heard that one. You apparently never read any of the Iglesia ni Christo publications.

Not much, to be honest. They were not very big, where I served, I saw their church's though. Wasn't the founder somehow influenced by mormonism?

[LDS Truthseeker]

This is my first post here. I hope I am welcome. I

[Heartleap]

I think the strongest arguements against Mormonism are also the strongest arguements against God.

If you are religious, there are only two choices... Catholic or LDS. Either the true Church never left, or it's been restored. The Evangelicals have no leg to stand on, as you can't get good fruit from a bad tree.

However, if you discount belief in God... it really doesn't matter.

Gods Church are those who belong to him. They know him and hear his voice. It is not those who come by laws of any religion. It is those who have given their hearts to him. He is all about love, because that is who he is. If it were for religion sake Christ would have been nicer to the leaders of the religious Church 2000 years ago. Those who know him, know they are his. Because in love, he has revealed himself to them.

Heartleap...

[Ahab]

This is my first post here. I hope I am welcome.

Ooh! A new newbie to initiate. And don't worry about whether or not you are welcome. When you're not, the Moderators will let you know that.

... I do think it would good to mix up the issues such as history issues like... why is the LDS testimony valid but my testimony of Catholicism is not...

To put it simply, what we are really interested in is the "testimony of Jesus", and any testimony which contradicts what he tells us doesn't carry as much weight with us as does his testimony.

[ELF1024]

My favorite Anti-Mormon bit that I have recieved from my Mother In Law; was as follows:

A Mormon man can get married to anyone he lays eyes on. All he needs is a picture, and he can go to one of those Temples and get married to her. Then any children that the woman bears are his.

This of course is utter nonsense, and really deserves no more rebutal than the one my friend gave me when I told him about it.

Heck, if I can get married to just a picture, I'm getting a subscription to (insert men's magazine here) and I'll get me a harem of good looking women!!!

[ELF1024]

Gods Church are those who belong to him. They know him and hear his voice. It is not those who come by laws of any religion. It is those who have given their hearts to him. He is all about love, because that is who he is. If it were for religion sake Christ would have been nicer to the leaders of the religious Church 2000 years ago. Those who know him, know they are his. Because in love, he has revealed himself to them.

Heartleap...

That's a nice statement, Bibically inaccurate, but a nice statement of feel good spirituality.

[mfbukowski]

The church had another leader like that once.

"The fact should be recognized by the Latter-day Saints that the Book of Mormon of necessity must submit to every test, to literary criticism, as well as to every other class of criticism; for our age is above all things critical, and especially critical of sacred literature, and we may not hope that the Book of Mormon will escape closest scrutiny; neither, indeed, is it desirable that it should escape. It is given to the world as a revelation from God. It is a volume of American scripture. Men have a right to test it by the keenest criticism, and to pass severest judgment upon it, and we who accept it as a revelation from God have every reason to believe that it will endure every test; and the more thoroughly it is investigated, the greater shall be its ultimate triumph. Here it is in the world; let the world make the most of it, or the least of it. It is and will remain true. But it will not do for those who believe it to suppose that they can dismiss objections to this American volume of scripture by the assumption of a lofty air of superiority, and a declaration as to what is enough for us or anybody else to know. The Book of Mormon is presented to the world for its acceptance; and the Latter-day Saints are anxious that their fellow men should believe it. If objections are made to it, to the manner of its translation, with the rest, these objections should be patiently investigated, and the most reasonable explanations possible, given." B.H. Roberts, "Translation of the Book of Mormon," Improvement Era, 1906, Vol. Ix. March, 1906. No. 5.

[Bsix]

Right, you guys wait til the fifth discussion to discredit other religions, when you teach the apostacy.

With all due respect, that statement VASTLY oversimplifies and overstates what the missionaries really teach. The LDS lesson barely touches on the concept of the apostacy. Our lesson plans do NOT attack specific religions. Our missionary lessons do not expose, debunk, discredit, or criticize the doctrines of other religions. Missionary lessons do not offer texual, historic, or scientific arguments against other religions. You won't find attacks on the character of the leaders of other religions.

Here is close to the full extent to which the LDS missionary lesson that touches on the Apostacy:

The Great Apostasy

After the death of Jesus Christ, wicked people persecuted the Apostles and Church

members and killed many of them. With the death of the Apostles, priesthood keys and

the presiding priesthood authority were taken from the earth. The Apostles had kept the

doctrines of the gospel pure and maintained the order and standard of worthiness for

Church members. Without the Apostles, over time the doctrines were corrupted, and

unauthorized changes were made in Church organization and priesthood ordinances,

such as baptism and conferring the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Without revelation and priesthood authority, people relied on human wisdom to

interpret the scriptures and the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

False ideas were taught as truth. Much of the knowledge of the true character and nature

of God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost was lost. The doctrines of faith

in Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost became distorted or

forgotten. The priesthood authority given to Christ

[Vance]

Not much, to be honest. They were not very big, where I served, I saw their church's though.

You missed out then.

Wasn't the founder somehow influenced by mormonism?

So the story goes.

[Mortal Man]

This is my first post here. I hope I am welcome. I

[Heartleap]

That's a nice statement, Bibically inaccurate, but a nice statement of feel good spirituality.

Hmmm your opinion. God reveals himself to me, speaks to me and I know I am his.

Heartleap...

[ELF1024]

Hmmm your opinion. God reveals himself to me, speaks to me and I know I am his.

Heartleap...

Might not want to be saying that out loud very much... in many states that kind of stuff will get you locked up in a nice round room for 72 hours for observation.

[maupayman]

With all due respect, that statement VASTLY oversimplifies and overstates what the missionaries really teach. The LDS lesson barely touches on the concept of the apostacy. Our lesson plans do NOT attack specific religions. Our missionary lessons do not expose, debunk, discredit, or criticize the doctrines of other religions. Missionary lessons do not offer texual, historic, or scientific arguments against other religions. You won't find attacks on the character of the leaders of other religions.

It is certainly implicitly taught. Especially, when you include the recommended verse from JSH:

19I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those bprofessors were all ccorrupt; that:

[Jeanne]

Wait a second, your stake presidency wants to teach a bunch of 16-19 year old boys about common anti-mormon claims? Is there not any worry that these boys are impressionable and may actually be hearing some of this stuff for the first time, perhaps even becoming curious about something that they were not curious about before?

Sounds like a rather dangerous fireside to me.

H.

[Heartleap]

Might not want to be saying that out loud very much... in many states that kind of stuff will get you locked up in a nice round room for 72 hours for observation.

I am not afraid, He is my strength,

Heartleap...