Was Muhammad Inspired of God?

[Rob Bowman]

Jason,

I had asked you: "Is there anyone in the history of the world who claimed to be a prophet of God that you can say confidently was or is a false prophet?" You replied:

No, not with full confidence. I can name some people who definitely were true prophets, however.

This response is troubling, because the Lord Jesus Christ and his apostles repeatedly warned us to guard against following false prophets (Matt. 7:15; 24:11, 24; Mark 13:22; Luke 6:26; Acts 13:6; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; 2 Pet. 2:1; 1 John 4:1-6; Rev. 2:2; 16:13; 19:20; 20:10). How can you be on guard against them if you are not capable of determining who they are?

[Garden Girl]

Thunderfire brought up the point I was going to ask about... that is, isn't Muhammed a descendant of Ishmael, the son of Abraham and Hagar?

When Abraham asked God about Ishmael (Gen 17:20) he was told that God had heard his prayer regarding Ishmael... and that God had blessed Ishmael that he would be fruitful and multiply exceedingly... and would beget 12 princes, and be made a great nation.

And so while God told Abraham he would establish his covenant with Isaac, whom Sarah would bear the next year, that did not change the blessing given for Ishmael.

So, IMO, Muhammed could indeed be inspired of God though not in the same authoritive and prophetic role as we view the prophets who spoke of the Christ. To me, the ancient battle between Isaac and Ishmael continues...

GG

[Thunderfire]

I will ask you what I asked Dan: Is there anyone in the history of the world who claimed to be a prophet of God that you can say confidently was or is a false prophet?

Balaam

"They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness. But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey, a beast without speech, who spoke with a man's voice and restrained the prophet's madness..." 2nd Peter 2:15-16

[Ahab]

Ahab,

I didn't say that God answered me according to the LDS paradigm of how God answers such prayers.

So do you believe God has told you the truth concerning the Book of Mormon, or not?

[LeSellers]

Who said I didn't "want" to pray about the Book of Mormon -- or even that I didn't pray about it? Not I!

Whether one prays about the Book of Mormon is barely an issue. The prayer offered "about" the Book of Mormon is meaningless without its meeting all three of the criteria noted in Moroni.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall

1. ask with a sincere heart,
2. with real intent,
3. having faith in Christ,

he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

The disqualification I have seen most often is item "b" in the list above: a lack of "real intent". Some have claimed that they do not know what this means. The Book of Mormon gives us an example of "real intent" in Alma.

18a O God, Aaron hath told me that there is a God; and if there is a God, and if thou art God, wilt thou make thyself known unto me, and I will give away all my sins to know thee, and that I may be raised from the dead, and be saved at the last day.

My experience is that many people would like to know the truth of all things, but they are unwilling to "give away all [their] sins" to arrive there.

As to the Book of Mormon, in particular, many have decided in advance that , true or not (and they "know" it is not), they will not join The Church of Jesus Christ. Their reasons vary, but, in general, it boils down to pride: if the Book of Mormon is true, what they have been preaching and (more importantly) doing is wrong, and they, being (in their own minds) good people, they are not wrong. Therefor, even were God to reveal the truth of the Book of Mormon to them, they will not do what the revelation implies.

In the end, as I said, praying about the Book of Mormon is ineffectual, not because God does not want to give that knowledge, but because the person doesn't really want it.

Lehi

[David T]

Is there anyone in the history of the world who claimed to be a prophet of God that you can say confidently was or is a false prophet?

Brian David Mitchell

David Koresh

Warren Jeffs

Benny Hinn

Jim Jones

Marshall Applewhite

[LeSellers]

Is there anyone in the history of the world who claimed to be a prophet of God that you can say confidently was or is a false prophet?

Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah was. There are others in modern times.

I disagree that Balaam was a "false prophet", but assert he was (or became) a "fallen prophet". The two are different.

Lehi

[Ahab]

Jason,

I had asked you: "Is there anyone in the history of the world who claimed to be a prophet of God that you can say confidently was or is a false prophet?" You replied:

This response is troubling, because the Lord Jesus Christ and his apostles repeatedly warned us to guard against following false prophets (Matt. 7:15; 24:11, 24; Mark 13:22; Luke 6:26; Acts 13:6; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; 2 Pet. 2:1; 1 John 4:1-6; Rev. 2:2; 16:13; 19:20; 20:10). How can you be on guard against them if you are not capable of determining who they are?

Our focus should be on finding out who are the TRUE prophets of God, rather than finding the false ones.

Once you know any man is a TRUE prophet of God, you then know that anyone who contradicts that man, on the same issue, is a false prophet.

Knowing who is a false prophet doesn't necessarily help you to know who is a true prophet, though.

[Vance]

This response is troubling, because the Lord Jesus Christ and his apostles repeatedly warned us to guard against following false prophets (Matt. 7:15; 24:11, 24; Mark 13:22; Luke 6:26; Acts 13:6; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; 2 Pet. 2:1; 1 John 4:1-6; Rev. 2:2; 16:13; 19:20; 20:10).

A rather useless warning, UNLESS there were also going to be true prophets. Else just declare the end of prophets.

Oh, and you missed some.

Hel. 13:26 Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.

3 Ne. 14:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep

[Ahab]

Brian David Mitchell

David Koresh

Warren Jeffs

Benny Hinn

Jim Jones

Marshall Applewhite

Okay, so you are saying you are confident that those men were false prophets of God.

Does that mean you think those men never said anything true?

The way I see it, we are prophets of God when we declare what is true, just as God declares what is true, and we are false prophets when we declare the truth is false.

[Thunderfire]

I disagree that Balaam was a "false prophet", but assert he was (or became) a "fallen prophet". The two are different.

While I think this may be an issue of semantics with the individual. For the sake of discussion, would you agree that a "fallen prophet" is worse or could do more damage than a false prophet?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

This response is troubling, because the Lord Jesus Christ and his apostles repeatedly warned us to guard against following false prophets (Matt. 7:15; 24:11, 24; Mark 13:22; Luke 6:26; Acts 13:6; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; 2 Pet. 2:1; 1 John 4:1-6; Rev. 2:2; 16:13; 19:20; 20:10). How can you be on guard against them if you are not capable of determining who they are?

So if there was a true prophet what would he be like? How would Rob know who was a true prophet?

On another note, it is interesting to see what has gone on in this thread. I guess I will just chalk it up to tough times people are going through.

[Ahab]

So if there was a true prophet what would he be like?

Like Joseph Smith, and Brigham Young, and Paul, and Peter, and Isaiah, and Jeremiah, and Noah, and Abraham, and Gordon B. Hinckley, and Thomas S. Monson, and President Uchtdorf, and President Eyring, and President Packer, and.... well, the list just goes on and on, both forward and backwards...

How would Rob know who was a true prophet?

Well, for one thing, I would tell him.

[Jason]

This response is troubling, because the Lord Jesus Christ and his apostles repeatedly warned us to guard against following false prophets (Matt. 7:15; 24:11, 24; Mark 13:22; Luke 6:26; Acts 13:6; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; 2 Pet. 2:1; 1 John 4:1-6; Rev. 2:2; 16:13; 19:20; 20:10). How can you be on guard against them if you are not capable of determining who they are?

I said I couldn't determine who was a false prophet with full confidence. I can, however, determine who is a true prophet. Therefore I am on guard against anyone who claims to be a prophet who I have not determined is a true prophet.

[Rob Bowman]

Ahab,

I didn't say that God "told" me what to think about the Book of Mormon. I said that I prayed about the Book of Mormon and that God answered my prayer. But his answer did not consist of giving me a private revelation as to whether the Book of Mormon is true.

So do you believe God has told you the truth concerning the Book of Mormon, or not?

[Rob Bowman]

Lehi,

I'll try not to take your comments personally.

Whether one prays about the Book of Mormon is barely an issue. The prayer offered "about" the Book of Mormon is meaningless without its meeting all three of the criteria noted in Moroni.

The disqualification I have seen most often is item "b" in the list above: a lack of "real intent". Some have claimed that they do not know what this means. The Book of Mormon gives us an example of "real intent" in Alma.

My experience is that many people would like to know the truth of all things, but they are unwilling to "give away all [their] sins" to arrive there.

As to the Book of Mormon, in particular, many have decided in advance that , true or not (and they "know" it is not), they will not join The Church of Jesus Christ. Their reasons vary, but, in general, it boils down to pride: if the Book of Mormon is true, what they have been preaching and (more importantly) doing is wrong, and they, being (in their own minds) good people, they are not wrong. Therefor, even were God to reveal the truth of the Book of Mormon to them, they will not do what the revelation implies.

In the end, as I said, praying about the Book of Mormon is ineffectual, not because God does not want to give that knowledge, but because the person doesn't really want it.

Lehi

[Rob Bowman]

nackhadlow,

Good for you. Thanks so much.

Would you put Muhammad on the list?

How about Joseph Smith III?

Brian David Mitchell

David Koresh

Warren Jeffs

Benny Hinn

Jim Jones

Marshall Applewhite

[Rob Bowman]

Ahab,

You wrote:

Once you know any man is a TRUE prophet of God, you then know that anyone who contradicts that man, on the same issue, is a false prophet.

I couldn't agree with you more. This is exactly how I process the question.

[StuddleyG]

I agree it was a great fireside!

Mormon Expressions recently did a podcast interview with Ed Decker*, which was actually pretty dang interesting. When asked his opinion on the whole "Are Mormons Christian?" question, Decker jokes that a better question is "Are Mormons Muslim?", since he sees so many similarities between the two religions. That comment came to mind as Peterson drew parallels between the two.

I, for one, think it is absurd to think that God would create a non-Christian religion. It kind of makes the Plan of Salvation into a farce if we theorize that God is Himself setting up churches that inspire their followers to zealously follow paths devoid of proper authority, teachings or ordinances. It just makes no sense. Ultimately, it fosters the feel-good idea of "many paths" back to God, which is a nice idea but pretty contrary to the whole LDS scheme of things.

*The podcast contains a minute or two of discussion of the Temple, so listener discretion is advised.

Well, I think it all depends on what God really cares about. Which does he care about the most? Believing in certain doctrines or living a moral life? In Matthew 25, Jesus says that the people on His right hand are the people who clothed the naked, fed the hungry, visited the sick, etc. Those qualifications for being on Christ's right hand are things that people from all different belief systems can meet.

Joseph Smith taught that all people will be rewarded for doing the best with what they knew in this life.

[Rob Bowman]

Ahab,

You wrote, in response to nackhadlow,

Okay, so you are saying you are confident that those men were false prophets of God. Does that mean you think those men never said anything true? The way I see it, we are prophets of God when we declare what is true, just as God declares what is true, and we are false prophets when we declare the truth is false.

That is not a biblical way of thinking about it. Jesus didn't say, "All of us are sheep when we say the truth and savage wolves when we say something incorrect."

[Ahab]

Ahab,

I didn't say that God "told" me what to think about the Book of Mormon. I said that I prayed about the Book of Mormon and that God answered my prayer. But his answer did not consist of giving me a private revelation as to whether the Book of Mormon is true.

So you're saying you believe God answered your prayer, supposedly wherein you talked with him about the Book of Mormon, but while you believe he was talking with you in prayer you believe he didn't tell you whether or not the Book of Mormon is true?

Did you tell him you wanted him to answer that question, specifically? How long did you talk about it with him?

I'm wondering why he didn't answer your question, personally, or why you don't believe he did.

[Rob Bowman]

Mola,

You asked:

So if there was a true prophet what would he be like? How would Rob know who was a true prophet?

A true prophet would:

• be consistent with previously established revelation from God (i.e., the Bible)
• build faithfully on that foundation with additional revelations that show him to be "ahead of the curve" in some way
• give a coherent account of why God had raised him up to serve as a prophet at the particular time and place that he did
• tell the truth about himself and others
• live, not sinlessly, but generally speaking to a standard at least as high as that of righteous believers of his own time

[SilverKnight]

nackhadlow,

Good for you. Thanks so much.

Would you put Muhammad on the list?

What is your prophet litmus-test I wonder?

If the bible names a person prophet then you automatically believe them to be such?

And anyone else not mentioned in the bible you automatically believe to be a false prophet?

Does it really all boil down to "'cause the bible says so"?

[Rob Bowman]

Ahab,

Most Mormons won't divulge any specifics to me when I ask them to explain how God answered their prayer to know the Book of Mormon is true. Are you asking me to divulge such specifics to you?

So you're saying you believe God answered your prayer, supposedly wherein you talked with him about the Book of Mormon, but while you believe he was talking with you in prayer you believe he didn't tell you whether or not the Book of Mormon is true?

Did you tell him you wanted him to answer that question, specifically? How long did you talk about it with him?

I'm wondering why he didn't answer your question, personally, or why you don't believe he did.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Absolutely -- and I mean absolutely -- no insult was directed at you, and utterly zero disrespect was directed toward you. You have completely misread what I wrote (and ignored the majority of it, too).

I am, however, tired to the bone of internet assertions that I'm arrogant and intolerant of other opinions -- personally insulting and disrespectful claims that you've just repeated here. They do not, in my experience, tend to be made by people who know me, but are made on the Internet. So much the worse for the Internet, then, from my perspective. I don't need this kind of treatment, and I don't need message boards.

You needn't take it personally. I never meant anything personal, and I don't with this, either.

I wish you all the best.

Then I am big enough to apologize