LDS Church issues statement on immigration

[ERayR]

In light of what is happening with illegal immigration perhaps this is pertanent.

3 Nephi 21:12

12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

[ttribe]

FYI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Immigration_Studies#Southern_Poverty_Law_Center

Are you denying that there is a high rate of ID theft amongst illegal immigrants?

Perhaps this is a little better? Link 1, Link 2.

Or is it a coincidence that southern border states (such as AZ) show the following statistics (especially see the rate of employment-related ID fraud) - Link 3

[ttribe]

In light of what is happening with illegal immigration perhaps this is pertanent.

3 Nephi 21:12

12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

This scripture has occurred to me several times over the past couple of years as well.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Pretty important to any kind of argument you wish to make, considering the topic of this thread.

So if I can confirm thought my Father-in-law that LDS are indeed stealing SS to work here illegally what would that do for you or any one else in this thread?

[LeSellers]

They don't cross the border, but they do steal SS#'s and identity. There's a lot of easy money to be made in ID theft schemes, and the desire to commit that kind of fraud transcends national origin. That being said, the problem of ID theft amongst illegal immigrants is substantial. Here are some stats - identity theft.

Indeed it is.

The theft of a person's identity by a legal alien or citizen is reprehensible, and not necessary. However, it is a requirement for an illegal alien. Because, to hire him, an employer must see an antiSocial inSecurity card to put him on the books (I know not all do). He cannot get one through legitimate channels, so he turns to illegal means of getting one, and that means either a made up number (which is easy to detect) or one stolen from someone else.

So, a huge majority of illegal aliens is predating innocent (and sometimes not-so-innocent) legal aliens and citizens. They are, then, twice criminals. Once in the illegal crossing of the border, and again in their assault on another person's identity.

It is also more than likely the illegal alien will apply for "services", so he is committing another felony, and it may be that he does so many times every month. He will not be prosecuted, however, because he deserves to steal the tax money that makes these services possible.

If anyone needs a couple of thousand dollars, and is not too careful about obeying the law himself, your aSiS number is worth about $2,500. And, as our California ****enson example shows, you can sell it several times. It is a felony, but, hey, it's to help the poor immigrants, so you can assuage you conscience as you spend the money.

Lehi

[Jeff K.]

I think the prophet and apostles are inspired men who receive revelation and inspiration from God. I said that in the last fast and testimony meeting. I say it now. And part and parcel with that is their statement is also either revelatory or inspired. I appreciate their neutrality in the subject and I believe they are focused on something higher that the law of the land (for a German of Jewis descent we sometimes know the law of the land is not a gold standard for righteousness even in a democracy). This coming fast and testimony meeting I will state the same again, without reservation.

We can argue about the law of the land, versus mercy, versus religion, versus just about anything else. But in the end, the question is whether or not we wish to follow the prophet or not and aver to his council. I consider the recent Prop 8 question. I had absolutely no hope that Prop 8 would pass. I honestly felt it would be a failure because, well, this is California and we all know how nutty my state can be. But I went out and gave it the college try, standing in street corners, putting up placards, going door to door. All the while setting myself up for failure. Heck, even when my car was damaged, my children harangued (harrassed), and other contrary acts done to me, I hung in there. I honestly thought it would be a good fight lost, and most on the other side felt the proposition was doomed too. And yet it passed. It was a lesson I have taken with me. Now again the church leadership, the prophets and apostles, prupose something that is certainly less difficult or controversial. Something neutral. I think I know slightly better than to doubt their stance this time.

They are prophets and apostles in more than merely name. Such should be considered when a statement is made.

[ERayR]

So if I can confirm thought my Father-in-law that LDS are indeed stealing SS to work here illegally what would that do for you or any one else in this thread?

Reinforce the need to help them correlate this behavior to gospel principles and the need for them to address it. What better place than in a child of God atmosphere than in an advesarial legal setting.

Being in the center of southern Idaho's dairy country believe me me and my family have been and continue to be affected by this problem.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

In light of what is happening with illegal immigration perhaps this is pertanent.

3 Nephi 21:12

12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

I am not sure I understand how illegal immigration translates to teh this verse.

I always took this verse to be a prediction of how the amerinidan were treated and the mass slauter that happend in the 1600s-1800s.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Reinforce the need to help them correlate this behavior to gospel principles and the need for them to address it. What better place than in a child of God atmosphere than in an advesarial legal setting.

Being in the center of southern Idaho's dairy country believe me me and my family have been and continue to be affected by this problem.

Yes, yes, I totally agree. Perhaps I had the wrong idea, I thought some in the this thread thought it not a big deal.

[ttribe]

I am not sure I understand how illegal immigration translates to teh this verse.

I always took this verse to be a prediction of how the amerinidan were treated and the mass slauter that happend in the 1600s-1800s.

No, it's the reverse. This is what will happen (at least figuratively) when the descendants of Lehi go through the population of they who have rejected the Gospel in the Promised Land.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

No, it's the reverse. This is what will happen (at least figuratively) when the descendants of Lehi go through the population of they who have rejected the Gospel in the Promised Land.

Oh I C.

[ERayR]

Yes, yes, I totally agree. Perhaps I had the wrong idea, I thought some in the this thread thought it not a big deal.

It's not that I don't think it a big deal it's that I don't think church officials should be reduced to being immigration agents and that the problem can be better dealt with in a God centered setting.

On the other hand the young lions who run through the population ravaging and tearing need to feel the fetters of law enforcement but the US government seams unwilling to perform it's role at this time.

[ttribe]

It's not that I don't think it a big deal it's that I don't think church officials should be reduced to being immigration agents and that the problem can be better dealt with in a God centered setting.

On the other hand the young lions who run through the population ravaging and tearing need to feel the fetters of law enforcement but the US government seams unwilling to perform it's role at this time.

Agreed again. You and I seem to be like-minded on this.

[semlogo]

Are you denying that there is a high rate of ID theft amongst illegal immigrants?

Perhaps this is a little better? Link 1, Link 2.

Or is it a coincidence that southern border states (such as AZ) show the following statistics (especially see the rate of employment-related ID fraud) - Link 3

No, I'm sure there's a high rate, just trying help regarding that particular source.

Of course that same source said that most ID theft is unrelated to illegal immigration.

[semlogo]

So if I can confirm thought my Father-in-law that LDS are indeed stealing SS to work here illegally what would that do for you or any one else in this thread?

Well, you'd need some real figures, not just, "I know a guy who does it."

[ttribe]

No, I'm sure there's a high rate, just trying help regarding that particular source.

Of course that same source said that most ID theft is unrelated to illegal immigration.

But it is a concentrated source, correct?

[semlogo]

But it is a concentrated source, correct?

Apparently so. But that doesn't mean LDS are doing it.

[Mark Beesley]

Any data on what percentage of illegals are using stolen SS #s?

Wish someone would use my Social Security number to work. It would only increase my benefits when I start drawing Social Security.

But seriously . . .

The level of selfishness (and ignorance) exhibited by those who speak so violently against people who live and work in America without the benefit of a green card or citizenship is staggering. The argument against amnesty is meanspirited. Reminds me of those who labored in the vineyard all day and then complained about being rewarded that same as those who labored only an hour.

Folks, check your selfishness at the door next time you get on your knees and ask God for the gift of charity for all of His children. There is plenty of wealth in this great Country to care for everyone who is here, irrespective of how they came or why they stay.

[Jeff K.]

I don't think it is selfishness or ignorance. It is a difference of opinion with more than a touch of soveriegnty. It also doesn't help that our nation has the easiest immigration laws and yet it is still taken advantage of all the while groups who have enjoyed the largess of our nations wealth demand even more.

Consider that the US for years has been an escape hatch from the oppression of Mexico, which kept electing the people that got them into the mess.

You do not have to be selfish to reject the position that somehow, in these difficult times we should accomodate people who have indeed skirted the law and now demand (not request) that they be given equal access to citizenship from those who followed our laws, and simultaneously demand the borders be kept open. All of this while taking advantage of a nation of laws.

I can see the argument.

But I also see the statement from the church, which I also agree with.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Well, you'd need some real figures, not just, "I know a guy who does it."

I can't produce that. So you seemed to be saying "It doesn'treally matter what you come up with in your example".

[Jeff K.]

Mark:

When they use your SS# they also do things like take out loans, buy homes, and cars and default. When your FICO drops to 22 will you still be greatful for the largess of the person who made a pittance investment in a social security system which will collpase on its own weight just about the time I retire a couple or three decades?

[USU78]

This scripture has occurred to me several times over the past couple of years as well.

I always think of the Yom Kippur War when I read that.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Wish someone would use my Social Security number to work. It would only increase my benefits when I start drawing Social Security.

But seriously . . .

The level of selfishness (and ignorance) exhibited by those who speak so violently against people who live and work in America without the benefit of a green card or citizenship is staggering. The argument against amnesty is meanspirited. Reminds me of those who labored in the vineyard all day and then complained about being rewarded that same as those who labored only an hour.

Folks, check your selfishness at the door next time you get on your knees and ask God for the gift of charity for all of His children. There is plenty of wealth in this great Country to care for everyone who is here, irrespective of how they came or why they stay.

Level of selfishness? Asking people to come into a country legal because we are a nation of laws, that sure is selfish. And who is speaking violently against people that are here illegally. Why don't you get off your soap box Keith.

That argument again amnesty is not mean spirited. I am for amnesty just fix the problem first. What good does it do to try and pump water out of a boat were the leak is not yet fixed?

I reject that asking people to obey the laws of the land is selfish. Check your liberal ideaology at the door before your post.

[ttribe]

Wish someone would use my Social Security number to work. It would only increase my benefits when I start drawing Social Security.

But seriously . . .

The level of selfishness (and ignorance) exhibited by those who speak so violently against people who live and work in America without the benefit of a green card or citizenship is staggering. The argument against amnesty is meanspirited. Reminds me of those who labored in the vineyard all day and then complained about being rewarded that same as those who labored only an hour.

Folks, check your selfishness at the door next time you get on your knees and ask God for the gift of charity for all of His children. There is plenty of wealth in this great Country to care for everyone who is here, irrespective of how they came or why they stay.

This is incredibly naive.

[Mark Beesley]

Mark:

When they use your SS# they also do things like take out loans, buy homes, and cars and default. When your FICO drops to 22 will you still be greatful for the largess of the person who made a pittance investment in a social security system which will collpase on its own weight just about the time I retire a couple or three decades?

Hey Einstein, did you see the smiley face at the end of my comment. And didn't my comment limit, but its terms, the use of my SS# to work?Sheesh, some people will argue about anything.