Droopy Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Forget Brother Packer's monstrous mansion. When is the Church going to come clean about the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator?That's one thing, at least, that didn't go up in the Chicago fire.
kolipoki09 Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Clearly, I've realized that when we donate to Humanitarian Aid in the Church, that its all a cloak name and that the real name is the BYU "Humanities Department" and then through means incomprehensible to all TBM's, ends up in the pocket of DCP, the loudest and most zealous Mopologist.It should also be noted that I once saw DCP fly in his Danmobile (a variant of the batmobile) into Provo Canyon after work where a set of camoflauge doors opened and Peterson glided in. Apparently he keeps a modest home in Utah valley, only as a deterrant, occasionally visiting only to quell the obvious non-presence undoubtedly noticed by his neighbors, and to restock the fridge with Krispie Kreams (DCP's ONLY known food group.) DCP was also directly responsible for BYU's loss to TCU earlier this fall. A sonic boom was heard as DCP made a flyover in his Danmobile, narrowly missing the blimp and killing at least 2 seagulls. The apparent shock from the blast distracted the BYU players, who weren't used to such noises, unlike TCU which deals with constant flyovers from Mormon Stake President Jon Beesley in his F-35 joint striker at the local Carswell Air Base in Fort Worth.
DanGB Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 I think the obvious is missed here. For the most part, GAs don't need large salaries. When you look at the list, most follow the mold of being succesfull professionals or administrators who's income for the balance of their life has already been locked into before they were called. I suspect that only those who have been life long employees of the the Church like Pres. Hinckley and Monson need the compensation. It is rare today that a common, average earning person would ever be called as a GA. This is not really different for bishop and steak pres callings in our own wards and stakes. While I don't mean anything negative, there is an image conciousness that the Church follows.But I do not believe GAs are getting rich from there callings, I just see it that they don't need the money at that time in their lives.
Hamba Tuhan Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 It is rare today that a common, average earning person would ever be called as a GA. This is not really different for bishop and steak pres callings in our own wards and stakes. While I don't mean anything negative, there is an image conciousness that the Church follows.You are an amazing mind reader, Dan, having clearly perceived the precise reason why callings are extended to certain individuals--information which those of us with far less telepathic talents can only wonder about.Unfortunately, the 'callings must preserve image consciousness' memo from SLC must never have made it here. My bishop, along with his wife and five young children, lives in a tiny three-bedroom house in what everyone acknowledges is the seediest, most crime-ridden suburb within our ward boundaries. One can only lament the damage he is daily doing to the image of the Church....
mercyngrace Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 You are an amazing mind reader, Dan, having clearly perceived the precise reason why callings are extended to certain individuals--information which those of us with far less telepathic talents can only wonder about.Unfortunately, the 'callings must preserve image consciousness' memo from SLC must never have made it here. My bishop, along with his wife and five young children, lives in a tiny three-bedroom house in what everyone acknowledges is the seediest, most crime-ridden suburb within our ward boundaries. One can only lament the damage he is daily doing to the image of the Church....Dan,I've lived in a dozen or more wards all over the southern, eastern, and midwestern states in my adult life and have never had a wealthy bishop. Never. We had one self-made millionaire Stake Pres. - he built a family biz from the ground up and worked into his 80s. The rest were middle class at best. Do I need to move to Utah to see all these rich church leaders?MnG
mfbukowski Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 I know most of you are academics who are not into business.That's fairly obvious on this thread.The church itself does not have to pay the GA's anything. In many cases, they serve on boards of corporations owned by the church, and offer legitimate advice in areas of their own expertise, and collect legitimate salaries for doing so.Some serve in salaried positions in church "mangement" positions related to their callings which would otherwise be occupied by non- GA administrators.
Paul Osborne Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 I don't even want to get started on this thread lest I start to choke on my own vomit.Would someone please say a prayer for me, a humble blue collar working man? Paul O
O-Brother Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Dan,I've lived in a dozen or more wards all over the southern, eastern, and midwestern states in my adult life and have never had a wealthy bishop. Never. We had one self-made millionaire Stake Pres. - he built a family biz from the ground up and worked into his 80s. The rest were middle class at best. Do I need to move to Utah to see all these rich church leaders?MnGCalifornia has some rich Church members. So does Washington State. Arizona has a few. Many become mission presidents. I knew a leader in California who owned a Mercedes-Benz Dealership and he was wealthy. Many other states have wealthy leaders. Utah has its share of highly successful business owners. The guy who owned WordPerfect donated $1M towards Prop 8. If you look at the list of donors to Prop 8, you should get an idea that some members do have a lot of disposable income and many of them are in leadership positions. In Davis county I know of someone who contributes more to the Church fund in a month that most average wage earners make per year. It looks like many LDS members are truly blessed with material things and earthly wealth. Utah also has a few multi-millionaires and a handful of LDS billionaires.P.S.: Remember, Utah is the MLM capital of the world!
mfbukowski Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Most of the GA's I have met have been quite successful in business or professions etc, and are retired.Who says they need any additional salary at all? I am related to a GA emeritus, and I know he was very successful before he was ever called.
O-Brother Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 I don't even want to get started on this thread lest I start to choke on my own vomit.Would someone please say a prayer for me, a humble blue collar working man? Paul OIn the Torah, God favors the prayer of the poor man versus the rich man. Why? Because according to the Torah, "Hashem is close to those with a broken heart" (Psalms 34:19) So, money is not everything and Jesus was a lowly Carpenter. (Blue collar?) Wealthy people can live better lifestyles, but not necessarily better lives. You wouldn't want to have some of the challenges and problems they face anymore than they want some of yours or mine.
Paul Osborne Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Most of the GA's I have met have been quite successful in business or professions etc, and are retired.By chance did you meet any that were NOT very successful in their business profession? Oh, I've never met a blue collar GA. Have you?Who says they need any additional salary at all? I am related to a GA emeritus, and I know he was very successful before he was ever calledIt is needfull that one be successful in order to be called to the position of a GA. Any money earned afterward is only frosting on the cake. They could do just well without the extra money the church throws in but I tend to think they will take the money nonetheless. However, I've been known to be wrong, from time to time. Paul O
Paul Osborne Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 You wouldn't want to have some of the challenges and problems they face anymore than they want some of yours or mine.You're so right. I wouldn't want the challenges of the white collar man. I'm a blue collar working man and that is all I will ever be. The revelations of a blue collar man from God are supreme. Paul O
WalkerW Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Clearly, I've realized that when we donate to Humanitarian Aid in the Church, that its all a cloak name and that the real name is the BYU "Humanities Department" and then through means incomprehensible to all TBM's, ends up in the pocket of DCP, the loudest and most zealous Mopologist.It should also be noted that I once saw DCP fly in his Danmobile (a variant of the batmobile) into Provo Canyon after work where a set of camoflauge doors opened and Peterson glided in. Apparently he keeps a modest home in Utah valley, only as a deterrant, occasionally visiting only to quell the obvious non-presence undoubtedly noticed by his neighbors, and to restock the fridge with Krispie Kreams (DCP's ONLY known food group.) DCP was also directly responsible for BYU's loss to TCU earlier this fall. A sonic boom was heard as DCP made a flyover in his Danmobile, narrowly missing the blimp and killing at least 2 seagulls. The apparent shock from the blast distracted the BYU players, who weren't used to such noises, unlike TCU which deals with constant flyovers from Mormon Stake President Jon Beesley in his F-35 joint striker at the local Carswell Air Base in Fort Worth.To the Danmobile!
mfbukowski Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 By chance did you meet any that were NOT very successful in their business profession? Oh, I've never met a blue collar GA. Have you?I know an area authority who is from very humble circumstances. But the sample of how many I know is very very limited. I have met several, and am related to one, as I have said. So I cannot say I really know much from personal experience either way.But I think your blatant hostility to the church gives you zero credibility.I think it is clear that success in business often goes together with experience in leadership. I can't imagine a person with janitorial experience only running a multinational corporation, can you?
O-Brother Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 By chance did you meet any that were NOT very successful in their business profession? Oh, I've never met a blue collar GA. Have you?That's unlikely to happen under the current structure. But if you happen to own a stable and successful construction company and you're worthy to become a GA, I think you could be called. It's hard to run a Church and travel overseas when you're having a hard time balancing the check book, are unemployed or working 2 jobs or wondering where the next pay check is going to come from. This is dangerous ground to dwell on because it would give the impression that only highly educated, well-established and financially stable middle-aged and older men can have top administrative positions in the Church. Hmmm. That's what it looks like and maybe that's just the way it is. A Master's or a Ph.D. Degree, followed by impeccable reputation also helps. Everything is tied together.Depressing, isn't it? It's not much different than the job market. The more qualifications you have, the more chances you have to advance and get promotions. In Jesus time, He called humble fishermen and not scholars. Times have changed. Can you imagine fishermen running a 13 million member Church? I'd call that a miracle if it happened. The Quorum Of the 12 Fishermen and The Quorum Of the 70 Carpenters? P.S.: Notice how the Church stresses higher education. There are many reasons for that.
Mortal Man Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 I don't care what Boyd K. Packer makes.However, Dan's posts of late are beginning to remind me of the war on terror:1. We know that U.S. forces are actively hunting down Al-Qeida Jihadists.2. We know that malevolent stalkers are actively hunting down Prof. Peterson.3. We know that U.S. rules of engagement prohibit bombing of holy sites.4. We know that "inmates" and "self-styled heroic geniuses" are banned from posting here.5. We know that terrorists hide in mosques to avoid open engagement.6. We know that Dan has retreated to MADB and is avoiding those other boards.7. We know that terrorists fire from mosques.8. We know that Dan's rhetoric is fiery.This would make Dan a _________.
Paul Osborne Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 I know an area authority who is from very humble circumstances. But the sample of how many I know is very very limited. I have met several, and am related to one, as I have said. So I cannot say I really know much from personal experience either way.Who is this area authority from humble wages? But I think your blatant hostility to the church gives you zero credibility.No one cares about my credibility. That's not the point. What counts is how much GA's earn during their successful careers vs. the humble blue collar working man that is never called to those positions. Facts are what count.I think it is clear that success in business often goes together with experience in leadership. I can't imagine a person with janitorial experience only running a multinational corporation, can youOh but you're mistaken. The power of a blue collar working man is mightier than all the earth and can shake the heavens and the earth by the power of God's holy eye. You need not have a degree or working white collar man experince to run God's church. The white collar man has trained you to think that this is the case. But it is wrong. Blue collar men are the ones who should be running the church while white collar men humble themselves and submit themeselves to the leadership of those who are best fit to run God's church. But, those who have their hands on the purse strings have control of the church. The blue collar man has been put down for generations and made to feel he is less powerful. Believe it not! The sith Lord is coming and will take the power away! Paul O
Zakuska Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Who is this area authority from humble wages? No one cares about my credibility. That's not the point. What counts is how much GA's earn during their successful careers vs. the humble blue collar working man that is never called to those positions. Facts are what count.Oh but you're mistaken. The power of a blue collar working man is mightier than all the earth and can shake the heavens and the earth by the power of God's holy eye. You need not have a degree or working white collar man experince to run God's church. The white collar man has trained you to think that this is the case. But it is wrong. Blue collar men are the ones who should be running the church while white collar men humble themselves and submit themeselves to the leadership of those who are best fit to run God's church. But, those who have their hands on the purse strings have control of the church. The blue collar man has been put down for generations and made to feel he is less powerful. Believe it not! The sith Lord is coming and will take the power away! Paul OWhy does your post remind me of Bugs Life and Antz?
Paul Osborne Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 In Jesus time, He called humble fishermen and not scholars. You've described the Church of Jesus Christ.Paul O
Paul Osborne Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Why does your post remind me of Bugs Life and Antz? And why do you ask that? My master is coming and I serve him only. Paul O
Maya Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Not to mention DCP's hush money ah . . salary. Edited to add: AND all of those professional apologists. I don't even want to get started on this thread lest I start to choke on my own vomit.Would someone please say a prayer for me, a humble blue collar working man? Paul O I really miss the praying emotion....About the OP.... I get this too all the time. Funny is there was almost NO replyes to the thread I started with the article of President Monsons home with pictures.... it was very quiet. But learning process at my MS is close to 0... as there soon was again talk about the mantions of our leaders!
SeattleGhostWriter Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 The funny thing is that many of those who say that the GA's are happily pocketing the Tithing money of hard working starving Mormon Families.........Are......The......Very.....Ones......Who......Give......Their......Hard.......Earned......Money.......Too........People......Who.........Claim.......God.........Wants....To......Bless.....Them.......Benny Hinn and His Luxury Jet. Salary = And much of this is due in part by the capitalistic entrepreneurial Christian Mega Churcheshttp://www.forbes.com/2003/09/17/cz_lk_0917megachurch.htmlSo, who are the ones that are saying "Come to me and for a fee I will set you free!", Certainly not the GA's. Coming to a neighborhood near you, a new megachurch with a pastor on a mission to save you, open your wallet and say "AWWWWWW!!!"
Bernard Gui Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 My BYU bishop lived in Pres. Packer's old home in Lindon, Utah.I spent a lot of time in the home and enjoyed the mural Pres.Packer painted on the living room wall of all the birds he hadobserved on his property. Not a mansion...lower middle class. As a CES teacher, Pres. Packer made less moneythan most blue collar workers. Does he qualify?My former stake president quit his very successful law practiceto become a general authority. My mission president, later ageneral authority, was a pharmacist.Many current General Authorities were raised in humble circumstancesand became successful because of hard work and higher education.Why should they be faulted for that?Bernard
handys003 Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Not cheap, but I don't think it costs billions per year to maintain/build new ones.It does cost billions not just in churches locally, but to run and pay the bills and supplies around the world. Money is involved in the building of the Temple square and it's bills. It also costs money to pay for building of other Temples throughout the world and those bills to run them. It also costs money to run the universities such as BYU and BYU-H and the others along with other schools in foreign countries. Also it cost money for the PCC and financial assistance for the student loans and scholarships. It costs money for the MTC and help fund those wishing to serve as missionaries should they come from homes incapable of such. It costs money for the humanitarian aid throughout the world such as Katrina, Tsunami victims in the Pacific, hurricanes in Philippines, famines in Africa, etc...It costs money to help with local wards with welfare assistance (you don't think your fast offering funds it all do you?) such as needy families or Deseret Industries. The continued donations to the many hospitals throughout the world for aid of the needy and other charities as well. The list is endless what the church uses the money for and it costs several billion. I studied this on a talk I gave awhile back.Now for those with a lack of keen financial minds or MBA's, the church learned it's lessons during the depression. When it was faced with no income to run or help others. They learned to put it away and reinvest. Most of the billions are socked away to earn interest to offset the costs. Here's another example that just came to mind. The church is going to spend close to half a billion dollars on developing Low-income affordable housing, expanding the BYU-H university campus in Laie, Hawaii so that many Saints can afford to live in Hawaii. So yeah it costs billions! Stop thinking in such limited terms. It's a worldwide effort!
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