A Protestant's perspective on why we won't find common ground with LDS

[Deborah]

If Joseph Smith really was a false prophet, you guys are in big trouble. I'm sure most of you can agree with that. God takes false prophets very, very seriously...which is my point.

And if Joseph was a true prophet then where does that leave you when you cast figurative stones at him? God also takes rejection of his true prophets very seriously.

[Brad]

Ok, Daniel, I'll re-phrase it then to the differences between LDS and "Protestants".

Why is it that most of you are not able to think outside of your own perspective? Let me put myself in your perspective: If I knew I had the fulness of the Gospel - restored to me by the prophet Joseph Smith, and knew that only through those doctrines would one be able to achieve the fullness of salvation (celestial kingdom, exaltation, etc.), I would do everything I could to try and convert everyone I knew to Mormonism. If I knew my Protestant friend is rejecting a true prophet of God, I would be very afraid for him.

Now, the Protestant perspective. Your mormon friend follows the teachings of a false prophet. You believe that they have a different gospel than the one that Paul talks about in Galatians 1:6-8. You would do everything you could to try and convert them to Protestantism. Although yes, they have a lot of similar teachings from the Bible, ultimately the Gospel is different. You would be very afraid for them.

[Flyonthewall]

This is where I disagree on what this verse means. This verse is not telling you to pray about whether a prophet is true or not. It is talking about discernment, much like the situation of King Solomon. I believe that we are to test the words of a prophet, and by that we will know if he is true or not. No where in the Bible does it say to pray over the truth of a prophet or scripture.

So everywhere in the Bible that it tells us to "Ask", we aren't really supposed to? We just need to sit down and figure it out with what we already understand? Well what happens if what we understand is wrong?

Anyways, I really would like to stay away from arguing our beliefs or getting into why or why not Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet. We both have our positions, let's respect that. The point of this thread was that I want you to see my perspective on WHY I choose not to try and find common ground with LDS.

I guess the title of this thread should be "I won't even look for common ground with LDS"

If Joseph Smith really was a false prophet, you guys are in big trouble. I'm sure most of you can agree with that. God takes false prophets very, very seriously...which is my point.

And if Joseph Smith were a true prophet, you will look back on your life and smack your forehead knowing that it was right in front of you, offered to you, and you rejected it.

[Lachoneus]

If I knew I had the fulness of the Gospel - restored to me by the prophet Joseph Smith, and knew that only through those doctrines would one be able to achieve the fullness of salvation (celestial kingdom, exaltation, etc.), I would do everything I could to try and convert everyone I knew to Mormonism. If I knew my Protestant friend is rejecting a true prophet of God, I would be very afraid for him.

What exactly do you think we should be doing that we are not doing? As a Ward Missionary, I devote several hours every week seeking to do just as you suggest. What more should I be doing?

[Brad]

And if Joseph Smith were a true prophet, you will look back on your life and smack your forehead knowing that it was right in front of you, offered to you, and you rejected it.

Agreed. I very much would.

What exactly do you think we should be doing that we are not doing? As a Ward Missionary, I devote several hours every week seeking to do just as you suggest. What more should I be doing?

I'm not saying you should be doing more, I'm agreeing that if I were LDS, I would be doing the same thing most of you are doing. I think it's no secret that LDS are some of the most prominent proselytizers today.

[clairc829]

Ok, Daniel, I'll re-phrase it then to the differences between LDS and "Protestants".

Why is it that most of you are not able to think outside of your own perspective? Let me put myself in your perspective: If I knew I had the fulness of the Gospel - restored to me by the prophet Joseph Smith, and knew that only through those doctrines would one be able to achieve the fullness of salvation (celestial kingdom, exaltation, etc.), I would do everything I could to try and convert everyone I knew to Mormonism. If I knew my Protestant friend is rejecting a true prophet of God, I would be very afraid for him.

You mean like run TV ads and sending out 50000 missionaries.

Because we believe God is ultimately fair in his judgments we believe you will be judged based on what you know and do. Not based on what we know.

[Daniel Peterson]

Why is it that most of you are not able to think outside of your own perspective?

When did you stop beating your wife?

I reject your premise that most Latter-day Saints are unable to think out of their own perspective. We're not some lesser species. Protestants are not a superior race.

I spent the weekend with Muslims in Orlando, speaking to and with them. I think I'm almost as capable as you are of understanding different perspectives. Drop the smug assumption of superiority.

Let me put myself in your perspective: If I knew I had the fulness of the Gospel - restored to me by the prophet Joseph Smith, and knew that only through those doctrines would one be able to achieve the fullness of salvation (celestial kingdom, exaltation, etc.), I would do everything I could to try and convert everyone I knew to Mormonism.

You know, you've got a point. Maybe we should send some missionaries out.

If I knew my Protestant friend is rejecting a true prophet of God, I would be very afraid for him.

But, you see, we don't believe that non-Mormons will be tortured in Hell for all eternity. And we also don't believe that their doom is sealed at death. We can afford to be hopeful. We don't need to be afraid.

Now, the Protestant perspective. Your mormon friend follows the teachings of a false prophet. You believe that they have a different gospel than the one that Paul talks about in Galatians 1:6-8. You would do everything you could to try and convert them to Protestantism. Although yes, they have a lot of similar teachings from the Bible, ultimately the Gospel is different. You would be very afraid for them.

Fine. Preach Protestantism with gusto. Seek to convert us. Have at it.

What we typically object to is the obsession that some conservative Protestants have, not with preaching their own faith, but with attacking ours. Trust me. If we ever send any missionaries out -- an excellent suggestion, by the way! -- you can rest assured that they will concentrate on preaching Mormonism, not on assaulting Catholicism or Judaism or Hinduism or, even, evangelical/fundamentalist Protestantism.

[blueadept]

And one does not need discernement in that case? You are setting up artificial boundaries.Of course you aren't entering into a debate with us, you prefer insults.Therein lies your problem.Really, you make it sound like a bad thing.Because you posted a negative, condescending post and insist that we are not Christians and so on on.

It's been my experience that LDS have distinct thoughts on a proper process of discernment. I was amazed at how adamant my wife was about this issue when we went through our engagement encounter weekend prior to getting married and how it seemed out of order for how my church seemed to be presenting the process.

[SilverKnight]

Now, the Protestant perspective. Your mormon friend follows the teachings of a false prophet. You believe that they have a different gospel than the one that Paul talks about in Galatians 1:6-8. You would do everything you could to try and convert them to Protestantism. Although yes, they have a lot of similar teachings from the Bible, ultimately the Gospel is different. You would be very afraid for them.

Please tell me why you, as a Protestant, are afraid for your mormon friends?

For the most part, LDS are kind, moral, family-oriented folks. Why would anyone be afraid for them?

As an LDS, I certainly am not afraid for the billions of humans who are not LDS, including my atheist, pagan, and christian friends.

Can you elaborate?

[clairc829]

Why is it that most of you are not able to think outside of your own perspective?

Since a good percentage of LDS used to be something else they understand better than you think.

[volgadon]

Ok, Daniel, I'll re-phrase it then to the differences between LDS and "Protestants".

Why is it that most of you are not able to think outside of your own perspective? Let me put myself in your perspective: If I knew I had the fulness of the Gospel - restored to me by the prophet Joseph Smith, and knew that only through those doctrines would one be able to achieve the fullness of salvation (celestial kingdom, exaltation, etc.), I would do everything I could to try and convert everyone I knew to Mormonism. If I knew my Protestant friend is rejecting a true prophet of God, I would be very afraid for him.

Now, the Protestant perspective. Your mormon friend follows the teachings of a false prophet. You believe that they have a different gospel than the one that Paul talks about in Galatians 1:6-8. You would do everything you could to try and convert them to Protestantism. Although yes, they have a lot of similar teachings from the Bible, ultimately the Gospel is different. You would be very afraid for them.

I note the 2nd to last sentence. Nice.

[Brad]

When did you stop beating your wife?

I reject your premise that most Latter-day Saints are unable to think out of their own perspective. We're not some lesser species. Protestants are not a superior race.

I spent the weekend with Muslims in Orlando, speaking to and with them. I think I'm almost as capable as you are of understanding different perspectives. Drop the smug assumption of superiority.

You know, you've got a point. Maybe we should send some missionaries out.

But, you see, we don't believe that non-Mormons will be tortured in Hell for all eternity. And we also don't believe that their doom is sealed at death. We can afford to be hopeful. We don't need to be afraid.

Fine. Preach Protestantism with gusto. Seek to convert us. Have at it.

What we typically object to is the obsession that some conservative Protestants have, not with preaching their own faith, but with attacking ours. Trust me. If we ever send any missionaries out -- an excellent suggestion, by the way! -- you can rest assured that they will concentrate on preaching Mormonism, not on assaulting Catholicism or Judaism or Hinduism or, even, evangelical/fundamentalist Protestantism.

I did not say most Latter-day Saints are unable to think outside of their own perspective. I believe I said most of "you"...meaning the people who had posted on this thread so far. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

And I agree, I do not seek to attack your religion, I only mean to share my own beliefs, and why I believe differently. "Sharing the Gospel in Love" is what a lot of Protestants call it. Very true though, a lot of Protestants approach it the wrong way. I'm not trying to justify them, but trust me, that is not how I do it. I just spent a week in Utah on a Mission trip, and I talked to many, many LDS people. I got into one really good conversation with a man and his son who were very devout LDS as we toured the 21,000 seat conference center. It was very friendly the whole time. My conversation with Mr. Page was also very friendly, as we just discussed our differences and saw each other's perspective.

[blueadept]

Why is it that most of you are not able to think outside of your own perspective?

Since a good percentage of LDS used to be something else they understand better than you think.

I tend to disagree with this but appreciate the point of view. Of the missionaries that I've come across that were once Catholic, I haven't been very impressed with their working knowledge of their previous faith.

My 2 cents

[ERayR]

If Joseph Smith really was a false prophet, you guys are in big trouble. I'm sure most of you can agree with that. God takes false prophets very, very seriously...which is my point.

If Joseph Smith were a false prophet I wouldn't be in trouble, Joseph would. You see my Protestant and Evangelical friends tell me that to be saved all I have to do is truely believe in and accept Christ in my life. After that all else doesn't matter I am saved. I tend to take them at their word. I believe Christ is my Savior. I accept him in my life. I show that acceptance by trying to improve my behavior in life. I find your assertion that if I am a LDS I am in trouble, somehow not saved to be at odds with your profession of faith that acceptance of Christ is sufficient.

Your rejection of my profession of faith, to me, is at odds with your proffession of faith. I can only see that you are either terribly confused or you are lying to me.

Make up your mind. Does acceptance of Christ into your life constitute being save or not? If it does then I and any other LDS who truely accept Christ into our lives are saved. Any of these other things that you and others reject about Mormonism doesn't matter and is irrelevant.

[Brad]

Please tell me why you, as a Protestant, are afraid for your mormon friends?

For the most part, LDS are kind, moral, family-oriented folks. Why would anyone be afraid for them?

As an LDS, I certainly am not afraid for the billions of humans who are not LDS, including my atheist, pagan, and christian friends.

Can you elaborate?

That sort of worries me. If you think I do not have the fullness of the Gospel, and that I reject a true prophet of God, why on earth aren't you afraid for me?

Brigham Young said it himself, anyone who rejects Joseph Smith and his teachings is damned. Not because you worship him, but because you believe his teachings are absolutely necessary for salvation.

This is why I don't like common ground. It is nothing more than political correctness, and it encourages both sides to stay where they are. One of us is right....and one of us is in big trouble. That should concern BOTH of us!

[dblagent007]

I'm fairly certain if we were to have a conversation in person, you wouldn't feel that way. I think a lot of people are reading my posts with a negative, attacking tone assumption.

I assume then that you would not tell me that my religion is evil, Satanic, etc., in person. Right?

[volgadon]

Why is it that most of you are not able to think outside of your own perspective?

I was born in the only Jewish state in the world. I grew up in an entirely Jewish town and went to an entirely Jewish school. Next door was a Muslim Beduin town. I now live not far from a town which is 1/3 Muslim, 1/3 Christian (catholics with some few orthodox) and 1/3 Druse.

Within walking distance are 6 historic churches of different denominations. The community I live in has a family of Messianic Jews who sculpt Christian memorabilia. There are even some reputed JWs in the nearest city. My neighbours are a mix of atheists, semi-observant and very devout Jews.

During my army service I was stationed at a base on land leased from the Catholic church. At the entrance was a statue of the Madona! Once in a while I would visit the Catholic church, which was once a hospital for Napoleon's army. I know several Mutuwalis and Bahais as well.

Served a mission in southern Russia, among Russian Orthodox, but also Armenian and Georgian Orthodox, as well as Catholics, Uniats, Muslims, Assyrians, and Yazids. My mission even included the only Buddhist region in Europe.

I worked at a baptismal site on the Jordan River for a Christian magazine run by Evangelicals.

You, I think, are unable to think outside your own perspective.

[dblagent007]

One of us is right....and one of us is in big trouble.

Actually, there are lots of other alternatives.

[Brad]

If Joseph Smith were a false prophet I wouldn't be in trouble, Joseph would. You see my Protestant and Evangelical friends tell me that to be saved all I have to do is truely believe in and accept Christ in my life. After that all else doesn't matter I am saved. I tend to take them at their word. I believe Christ is my Savior. I accept him in my life. I show that acceptance by trying to improve my behavior in life. I find your assertion that if I am a LDS I am in trouble, somehow not saved to be at odds with your profession of faith that acceptance of Christ is sufficient.

Your rejection of my profession of faith, to me, is at odds with your proffession of faith. I can only see that you are either terribly confused or you are lying to me.

Make up your mind. Does acceptance of Christ into your life constitute being save or not? If it does then I and any other LDS who truely accept Christ into our lives are saved. Any of these other things that you and others reject about Mormonism doesn't matter and is irrelevant.

A protestant would say that because you follow the teaching of a false prophet, you now have a perverted version of the Gospel. Joseph Smith said salvation is likened unto a ladder, with faith being the first step. This adds us into the equation. You say you're saved by grace, but if YOU don't do works, then you lose that grace. We as protestants look at Romans 4:5 for this: "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

This is not saying that we don't believe that faith without works is dead. There's no getting around that. Protestants believe though that if you have faith, you will naturally have good works. Not because you choose to do them or not, but because you are given a new nature, you are a new creature. This way of looking at it I believe gives all the credit to God, so that we can't say that we had a part in our salvation by choosing to do good works. So instead of that ladder illustration, we see it as if God is throwing a rope down to us. By faith we grab that rope, and he pulls us up the rest of the way. That way, we have no part in our salvation at all.

[ERayR]

Why is it that most of you are not able to think outside of your own perspective? Let me put myself in your perspective: If I knew I had the fulness of the Gospel - restored to me by the prophet Joseph Smith, and knew that only through those doctrines would one be able to achieve the fullness of salvation (celestial kingdom, exaltation, etc.), I would do everything I could to try and convert everyone I knew to Mormonism. If I knew my Protestant friend is rejecting a true prophet of God, I would be very afraid for him.

Why is it that you are not able to think outside of your own perspective. You are much more rigidly bound by your own creeds than most LDS I have met. Most Lds I know are able to take new concepts and research and evaluate them where as those like you who have a narrow and curcumscribed view do not seem able to do anything but reject and attack others out of hand.

[clairc829]

I tend to disagree with this but appreciate the point of view. Of the missionaries that I've come across that were once Catholic, I haven't been very impressed with their working knowledge of their previous faith.

My 2 cents

You could be right, if they saw it as you do they would still be catholic.

Many of the people I taught as a missionary had less knowledge of what their churches taught than I did, and I was far from an expert.

I hope I worded that right. I'm not saying what they knew was wrong just that they didn't know much.

Your experience is like ours with some ex members.

[Brad]

I assume then that you would not tell me that my religion is evil, Satanic, etc., in person. Right?

I would tell you that I believe Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Does that mean then that your religion is evil and Satanic?

[annewandering]

Ultimately we respect people not LDS. Antimormons do not respect us at all. I have read so many antimormon rants that they all blend together and none are loving or respectful. Compare that to the missionaries out there. They are quiet, respectful and kind. They do public service projects for no gain to themselves even for people that detest all LDS people and the church.

How can you compare the two?

[volgadon]

A protestant would say that because you follow the teaching of a false prophet, you now have a perverted version of the Gospel. Joseph Smith said salvation is likened unto a ladder, with faith being the first step. This adds us into the equation. You say you're saved by grace, but if YOU don't do works, then you lose that grace. We as protestants look at Romans 4:5 for this: "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

This is not saying that we don't believe that faith without works is dead. There's no getting around that. Protestants believe though that if you have faith, you will naturally have good works. Not because you choose to do them or not, but because you are given a new nature, you are a new creature. This way of looking at it I believe gives all the credit to God, so that we can't say that we had a part in our salvation by choosing to do good works. So instead of that ladder illustration, we see it as if God is throwing a rope down to us. By faith we grab that rope, and he pulls us up the rest of the way. That way, we have no part in our salvation at all.

Just because you insist that us doing good works means that we don't give all the credit to God doesn't make it so.

[ERayR]

I did not say most Latter-day Saints are unable to think outside of their own perspective. I believe I said most of "you"...meaning the people who had posted on this thread so far. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

And I agree, I do not seek to attack your religion, I only mean to share my own beliefs, and why I believe differently. "Sharing the Gospel in Love" is what a lot of Protestants call it. Very true though, a lot of Protestants approach it the wrong way. I'm not trying to justify them, but trust me, that is not how I do it. I just spent a week in Utah on a Mission trip, and I talked to many, many LDS people. I got into one really good conversation with a man and his son who were very devout LDS as we toured the 21,000 seat conference center. It was very friendly the whole time. My conversation with Mr. Page was also very friendly, as we just discussed our differences and saw each other's perspective.

Smooth but in view of your posts it doesn't resonate with me. Sorry, really I am.