Saturn Stone

[Notquitewetyet]

From this truly awful website, which I won't post a link to due to some of their other content, but they have this to say from Schnoebelen about the Saturn stones on the SLC Temple:

The Saturn Stone found on the Mormon Temple. "Saturn is a planet of darkness, long associated with grim, funereal and evil things. In astrology it is called the 'greater malefic' or greater evil. Saturn is named for one of the Greek titan gods of mythology, Kronos. Kronos was a singularly unsavory god who devoured his children." 1

(1) William J. Schnoebelen, James R. Spencer, Whited Sepulchers, 1995, p. 16

However, their picture of a Saturn stone looks like a circular ornamentation on the temple. Can anyone give me the scoop on the "Saturn stones?"

[The Nehor]

Can anyone give me the scoop on the "Saturn stones?"

We secretly worship Kronos and pray for the day that he will reincarnate and rise up and slay his disobedient son Zeus for usurping his supremacy.

[ttribe]

We secretly worship Kronos and pray for the day that he will reincarnate and rise up and slay his disobedient son Zeus for usurping his supremacy.

Well...there goes the secret. Nice one.

[The Nehor]

Well...there goes the secret. Nice one.

Ooops. D&C 142 is still classified. I didn't say anything. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.

[volgadon]

Nehor, now you have to move to Paraguay and pretend to be an old Nazi pretending to be a Paraguayan, in order to avoid the Danites.

[sethpayne]

From this truly awful website, which I won't post a link to due to some of their other content, but they have this to say from Schnoebelen about the Saturn stones on the SLC Temple:

However, their picture of a Saturn stone looks like a circular ornamentation on the temple. Can anyone give me the scoop on the "Saturn stones?"

I don't know about Saturn stones but I do know that Bill Schnoebelen is either a pathological liar or mentally unstable.

When Sandra Tanner devotes an entire booklet to denouncing you, your theories, and your credibility -- I think it is safe to say that you career as an anti-Mormon is short-lived.

[Notquitewetyet]

I don't know how to post pictures. If someone could post pics of the Saturn Stones I'd be much obliged. From an equally worthless website, there is this tidbit on them:

Saturn Stones on Salt Lake Temple

The Saturn stones are located directly below the parapet on each side of the six towers. They represent Kolob, the dwelling place of God.

From Kerry's site, two Mormon posters seem to back this up:

Well, basically all ancient cultures participated in Saturn worship. If you look into the pantheons of every culture you will find that the supreme being is equivelent to the planet Saturn. In the case that scholars refer to "Sun Worship" this is also Saturn Worship, as evident from the fact that Hebrews recognized the planet Saturn as their Sun and named the Sabbath accordingly. The Chaldeans called Saturn/God 'El', which is where Abraham recieved it, yet knew who truly deserved the name. Abraham was then told to go teach the Egyptions who Saturn was a type for, thus worshipping the hosts of heaven is an abomination, but the greatest of all the stars is like God, this is who we worship, the creator, not the creation. In a very real sense all of history Saturn's intimate relationship to our Earth. Saturnalia is the roman celebration of the return of Saturn to our earth, when we will enter a golden age, or millenium era. We (Saints) look forward to the return of Kolob, as Joseph said that the "Grand Sign of the Second Coming" would be a planet. Saturn is Kolob. This is the short answer but there are volumes and volumes published on the subject and volumes yet to be published, hopefully by more LDS authors. (of course most books written so far only are based on ancient Saturn worship and do not have the air of prophecy dictating a literal return of the planet. That is one of the great mysteries that the saints have. More than you might believe write about Saturn having been close to this earth as the root of our creation myths). Good luck in your scholarly pursuits! I appreciate the oppurtunity to remark on this important question.

C. Ammon Cheney

Ammon

Posted by: Ammon Cheney | October 14, 2007 at 02:52 PM

It is very interesting to note, if we follow Ammon Cheney's perspective, that Saturn is next to Uranus, which is the Greek word for "the heavens." Of course, this name was applied in more modern times, but if Saturn can be seen as Kolob, it is fitting that it is place closest to the Heavens. I just thought that was cool.

Posted by: David Larsen | October 16, 2007 at 02:50 PM

Anyways, I'd love to hear more in the way of speculations.

[volgadon]

It seems that Orson Pratt's lectures on astronomy influenced the saints when they decorated the temple.

[Mike Reed]

their picture of a Saturn stone looks like a circular ornamentation on the temple. Can anyone give me the scoop on the "Saturn stones?"

Truman O. Angell's 1854 drawing of the temple exterior shows Saturn Stones:

Although I have yet to explore this topic in detail... for the moment, I side with Laurel Andrew that the Saturn stones may have (at least in part) had something to do with Thomas D*ck's philosophy.

Its striking appearance made Saturn especially fascinating to D*ck, and of all the planets he discusses, the most attention is given to this one. Its stupendous size and luminous rings made it unthinkable that its creation could have been for any purpose other than to figure in some scheme of a divine empire.....

With Saturn's importance in the solar system predicated largely upon its capacity to support a huge population of celestial beings, its inclusion as a symbolic stone on the Salt Lake City temple becomes understandable. Smith's system of graded glories to accomodate all the levels of merit is similar to D*ck's belief that the inhabitants of the future state belong to different ranks or degrees of intelligence, though D*ck thought in terms of pure, rational intelligences, while the Mormons held to the notion of a bodily afterlife, brought about by specific earthly actions--the temple ritual. Smith had also adopted D*ck's concept of the plurality of inhabited worlds, worlds which were to be the home of the resurrected. A planet like Saturn could certainly contain the swelling ranks of the Latter-day Saints, which would of course include members of past generations who would be baptized in the temple. What better symbol could be found than Saturn, with its easily identifiable rings, to serve as a reminder of the ultimate destiny of man, which was to become a god himself and rule over his kingdom peopled by his family and ancestors incorporated into the fold through the sacrament of babtism for the dead? On the temple Saturn is thus given a position higher than other symbolic stones because this is the most exalted state to which one can rise. (Laurel B. Andrew, "The Early Temples of the Mormons: The Architecture of the Millennial Kingdom in the American West," 118-119)

Edit to add: Yes. Schnoebelen is an idiot.

[AddamS]

We secretly worship Kronos and pray for the day that he will reincarnate and rise up and slay his disobedient son Zeus for usurping his supremacy.

Yay! I just won a two dollar bet with my wife's former bishop!

[jadams_4242]

From this truly awful website, which I won't post a link to due to some of their other content, but they have this to say from Schnoebelen about the Saturn stones on the SLC Temple:

However, their picture of a Saturn stone looks like a circular ornamentation on the temple. Can anyone give me the scoop on the "Saturn stones?"

Oh Darn!; our secret evil code has been discovered.

[jkfrost]

Oh Darn!; our secret evil code has been discovered.

Do not make fun - it took them many years to cut an haul those stones from Saturn.

[jadams_4242]

Do not make fun - it took them many years to cut an haul those stones from Saturn.

i wasnt making fun; this is actually very serious. everything is going to have to change now that "they" have figured our secret code.

[Notquitewetyet]

Truman O. Angell's 1854 drawing of the temple exterior shows Saturn Stones:

Although I have yet to explore this topic in detail... for the moment, I side with Laurel Andrew that the Saturn stones may have (at least in part) had something to do with Thomas D*ck's philosophy.

Its striking appearance made Saturn especially fascinating to D*ck, and of all the planets he discusses, the most attention is given to this one. Its stupendous size and luminous rings made it unthinkable that its creation could have been for any purpose other than to figure in some scheme of a divine empire.....

With Saturn's importance in the solar system predicated largely upon its capacity to support a huge population of celestial beings, its inclusion as a symbolic stone on the Salt Lake City temple becomes understandable. Smith's system of graded glories to accomodate all the levels of merit is similar to D*ck's belief that the inhabitants of the future state belong to different ranks or degrees of intelligence, though D*ck thought in terms of pure, rational intelligences, while the Mormons held to the notion of a bodily afterlife, brought about by specific earthly actions--the temple ritual. Smith had also adopted D*ck's concept of the plurality of inhabited worlds, worlds which were to be the home of the resurrected. A planet like Saturn could certainly contain the swelling ranks of the Latter-day Saints, which would of course include members of past generations who would be baptized in the temple. What better symbol could be found than Saturn, with its easily identifiable rings, to serve as a reminder of the ultimate destiny of man, which was to become a god himself and rule over his kingdom peopled by his family and ancestors incorporated into the fold through the sacrament of babtism for the dead? On the temple Saturn is thus given a position higher than other symbolic stones because this is the most exalted state to which one can rise. (Laurel B. Andrew, "The Early Temples of the Mormons: The Architecture of the Millennial Kingdom in the American West," 118-119)

Edit to add: Yes. Schnoebelen is an idiot.

Well, I don't know if I accept the secular assumptions tied to **** (mods is this not a bit over the top?) but Joseph could have been inspired to ponder and asked based on ****'s philosophy. I'll have to read that. But thanks for the detailed info as always, Mr. Reed.

[mfbukowski]

Truman O. Angell's 1854 drawing of the temple exterior shows Saturn Stones:

You know, as I recall the Saturn Stones as actually done on the temple are as Saturn seen from above- ie- with the planet and the rings as just circles- not shown as on this diagram.

Am I losing my marbles or am I right? Anybody got an actual photo showing them? I had a devil of a time finding one....

[ttribe]

I had a devil of a time finding one....

[Notquitewetyet]

You know, as I recall the Saturn Stones as actually done on the temple are as Saturn seen from above- ie- with the planet and the rings as just circles- not shown as on this diagram.

Am I losing my marbles or am I right? Anybody got an actual photo showing them? I had a devil of a time finding one....

I found some on some very (ie malicious temple content) anti-Mormon websites. Unfortunately I don't know how to download pics and then paste them here.

And that makes sense about what you meant by the depiction from top down--- and why I thought they were just decorative circles.

[Ron Beron]

From this truly awful website, which I won't post a link to due to some of their other content, but they have this to say from Schnoebelen about the Saturn stones on the SLC Temple:

However, their picture of a Saturn stone looks like a circular ornamentation on the temple. Can anyone give me the scoop on the "Saturn stones?"

The author is full of codswallop(Schnoebelen). It meant anciently the supreme deity. In Hebrew lore it represented the supreme deity, "El" and was represented by the mogen David. The only thing occultic about it was that it was used by alchemists as a symbol for lead.

[ttribe]

I found some on some very (ie malicious temple content) anti-Mormon websites. Unfortunately I don't know how to download pics and then paste them here.

And that makes sense about what you meant by the depiction from top down--- and why I thought they were just decorative circles.

Right-click on the picture you want to link; choose "Copy Image Location"; click on the "Insert Image" button in the toolbar above the text box where you are replying on this Board; paste the location of the image into the dialog box that comes up; click "Ok"; click "Add Reply"; done.

[Mike Reed]

You know, as I recall the Saturn Stones as actually done on the temple are as Saturn seen from above- ie- with the planet and the rings as just circles- not shown as on this diagram.

Am I losing my marbles or am I right? Anybody got an actual photo showing them? I had a devil of a time finding one....

Yes. I mean, no. You aren't losing your marbles. Yes, I think you are right.

Here is an image:

FWIW... some LDS authors have denied that Saturn symbolism is on the temple. I think they are mistaken, however.

[mfbukowski]

Yes. I mean, no. You aren't losing your marbles. Yes, I think you are right.

Here is an image:

FWIW... some LDS authors have denied that Saturn symbolism is on the temple. I think they are mistaken, however.

There is an official book about the Salt Lake Temple published by the church (which I don't own, but borrowed once from a seminary library) which labels them "Saturn Stones". It is the only way I would have recognized them as anything but circles. I tucked that fact away, and here I am actually (seemingly) right!

[Mike Reed]

There is an official book about the Salt Lake Temple published by the church (which I don't own, but borrowed once from a seminary library) which labels them "Saturn Stones". It is the only way I would have recognized them as anything but circles. I tucked that fact away, and here I am actually (seemingly) right!

I may have the book. I'll check and get back to you.

[mfbukowski]

I may have the book. I'll check and get back to you.

It's large and white, but somewhat thin as I recall. Too thin to be a "coffee table book" (uh oh- do Mormons have coffee tables??) but about the right length and width.

[mfbukowski]

I'm glad somebody appreciates my humor!

[Ron Beron]

It's large and white, but somewhat thin as I recall. Too thin to be a "coffee table book" (uh oh- do Mormons have coffee tables??) but about the right length and width.

I don't even have a table.