Why Do Christians Say Mormons Are Not Christian?

[consiglieri]

Is it true I'm on Bat-Man's ignore list?

Oooh, a dream come true!

[Log]

So this thread devolves into space- and time-killing? Why cumbereth it the ground?

[consiglieri]

So this thread devolves into space- and time-killing? Why cumbereth it the ground?

To get to 666, man!

If you ever plan to motor west . . .

[captain-jack]

Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me...

[Hoops22]

To get to 666, man!

If you ever plan to motor west . . .

Is this picture of Darren McGavin from that movie he was in that took place in Seattle? Or the series that was moved to Chicago? (the dolts) And why?

[Flyonthewall]

Ya know the mods might close this thread down at 665

[consiglieri]

Is this picture of Darren McGavin from that movie he was in that took place in Seattle? Or the series that was moved to Chicago? (the dolts) And why?

The series, man, the series, which ran for all of one season on ABC, 1974-75.

Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me...

Come, cheer up, me lads, tis to glory we steer . . .

[Hoops22]

The series, man, the series, which ran for all of one season on ABC, 1974-75.

I loved that show to. Sometimes sci-fi plays it and I try and catch when I can.

In order to inject more controversy and thereby continue the thread...

consiglieri is a big fat ninny!!

[ttribe]

I loved that show to. Sometimes sci-fi plays it and I try and catch when I can.

In order to inject more controversy and thereby continue the thread...

consiglieri is a big fat ninny!!

What show?

Oh, and how do you know consiglieri is big and fat?

[emeliza]

Dang Consig, posters are calling you names. Also I didn't realize you were old enough to watch a show from the early 70's.

So what are you gonna do about the name calling?

In the words of Lamanite

Big Up!

[Doctor Steuss]

Dang Consig, posters are calling you names. Also I didn't realize you were old enough to watch a show from the early 70's.

So what are you gonna do about the name calling?

In the words of Lamanite

Big Up!

Consiglieri was there at Sinai worshiping the golden calf.

Old.

[Hoops22]

What show?Oh, and how do you know consiglieri is big and fat?

His attitude.

Consiglieri was there at Sinai worshiping the golden calf.Old.

[ttribe]

His attitude.

BUT WHAT SHOW!!???

[selek]

So this thread devolves into space- and time-killing? Why cumbereth it the ground?

I'll wager a guess!

Because the ability to reach the 666 milestone makes it three times more meaningful, relevant, and insightful than anything posted by Akboy, Billy, JesusDPM, Johnny, Hoops, Rob Osborn, and Tana39 in the last eighteen months?

[Calm]

BUT WHAT SHOW!!???

Nightstalker, loved it.

They did a remake a bit ago, IIRC. Never saw it.

[ttribe]

Nightstalker, loved it.

They did a remake a bit ago, IIRC. Never saw it.

Gotcha. That's not one I've picked up on. Thanks for the answer BTW.

[Hoops22]

I'll wager a guess!

Because the ability to reach the 666 milestone makes it three times more meaningful, relevant, and insightful than anything posted by Akboy, Billy, JesusDPM, Johnny, Hoops, Rob Osborn, and Tana39 in the last eighteen months?

Same to ya.

[Flyonthewall]

Nightstalker, loved it.

They did a remake a bit ago, IIRC. Never saw it.

It was ok. It had a policewoman that worked with Kolchak, ala Mulder and Sculley, not as partners, but one into the supernatural and one not. IIRC. Enjoyed the original better.

[emeliza]

Okay did you guys here that Knight Rider is coming back on the air? What the heck is up with that. It was okay the first time around (just okay), but the second time around I can't imagine it will make it too long.

[selek]

Same to ya.

Who let that fly in here?

Pirate Personality Test:

http://www.talklikeapirate.com/ppi.html

My results:

The Quartermaster

Profile: The Quartermaster (The shipâ??s disciplinarian).You, me hearty, are a man or woman of action! And what action it is! Gruesome, awful, delightful action. You mete out punishment to friend and foe alike â?? well, mostly to foe, because your burning inner rage isnâ??t likely to draw you a whole lot of the former. Still, though you may be what today is called â??high maintenanceâ? and in the past was called â??bat-**** crazy,â? the crew likes to have you around because in a pinch your maniacal combat prowess may be the only thing that saves them from Jack Ketch. When not in a pinch, the rest of the crew will goad you into berserker mode because itâ??s just kind of fun to watch. So you provide a double service â?? doling out discipline AND entertainment.

[Flyonthewall]

Who let that fly in here?

Pirate Personality Test:

http://www.talklikeapirate.com/ppi.html

My results:

The Quartermaster

Profile: The Quartermaster (The shipâ??s disciplinarian).You, me hearty, are a man or woman of action! And what action it is! Gruesome, awful, delightful action. You mete out punishment to friend and foe alike â?? well, mostly to foe, because your burning inner rage isnâ??t likely to draw you a whole lot of the former. Still, though you may be what today is called â??high maintenanceâ? and in the past was called â??bat-**** crazy,â? the crew likes to have you around because in a pinch your maniacal combat prowess may be the only thing that saves them from Jack Ketch. When not in a pinch, the rest of the crew will goad you into berserker mode because itâ??s just kind of fun to watch. So you provide a double service â?? doling out discipline AND entertainment.

Didnt' know I needed an invite.

[emeliza]

Didnt' know I needed an invite.

You don't. This thread was not claimed by the SSCE. You are free to walk about the cabin.

Edit: However if at some point it is, you will need to watch out. Our Tyler might be far away, but his sword stretches far.

[Pahoran]

So what does the word Christian mean? Do you agree with the dictionary definition?

Of course. Please read Offenders for a Word, by Peterson and Ricks. It settles the matter, fully and finally.

There is a nearly universal agreement, among dictionaries, that a Christian is someone who follows Christ's teachings and example. I have no problem with this definition. I'm not saying we should add doctrines to the definition that people need to believe in order to be a Christian. My problem is with the claim that EVs and Mormons are both Christian. Their core teachings contradict each other, so they can't both be following Christ's teachings. Does the lexical definition give any indication someone can be a Christian without actually following Christ's teachings?

"Their core teachings contradict each other?" Really?

Our "core teachings" are of the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, and of his Atonement, as recorded in the New Testament. Do EV's contradict these events?

I realise that a very important branch of EV thought holds that the Atonement is "Limited" in scope, applying only to those who were "Unconditionally elected" in advance to be saved; but that heresy, as completely false as it is, does not make Calvinists non-Christian.

As Peterson and Ricks demonstrate, the defining characteristic of Christians from the very beginning was devotion to Jesus Christ as the uniquely normative figure in their faith. It was never consensus about this or that doctrine. Absolutely every doctrine that the self-appointed gatekeepers try to use to exclude us from Christianity has been believed at some time or other by groups whose Christianity is never questioned. Offenders for a Word. goes into this in some detail.

Is the LDS church being arrogant when it claims it's the God's true church and the only church with the full gospel?

No, because we are simply faithfully reporting what God said about the matter.

That doesn't mean that some Mormons might not get a bit puffed up about it, though.

EVs have said you need to believe some specific doctrines to be a Christian. They don't punish or penalize people for not agreeing. They don't force people to join their churches. They don't hinder other people from worshiping in any way.

They don't claim any kind of authority.

Which is just as well, because they haven't got any.

This argument about gatekeepers uses a false dilemma, either-or fallacy. That is not the only alternative and EVs have proven it. They've been making this claim for many years and they haven't done anything even close to tribunals or gatekeeping.

I didn't say the tribunal had to be a formal one; but every time an EV takes it upon himself or herself to compare someone else's doctrines to their own EV ones, and then declares that someone else Christian--or not--based upon how well the comparison stacks up, that is exactly gatekeeping.

What discussion do Mormons want to participate in? Have you, or other Mormons, been told you couldn't join in some conversation or go to an event because you aren't Christian?

As a matter of fact--yes, that's quite common. And it is almost always EV's who are doing the excluding.

If EVs suddenly accepted Mormons as Christians, what would you guys do differently? Would you join EVs in more discussions? Would you join the Evangelical Theological Association, or some other theology group?

Of course not.

However, if EV's were to admit the clear fact that Mormons are Christians, it might have an impact upon what they do. For one thing, it would take a lot of the momentum out of anti-Mormon polemics, for which EV intolerance is the mainspring.

And if EV's were less intolerant, the world would be a better place.

Which is why I think all EV anti-Mormons should read Offenders for a Word, by Peterson and Ricks. It settles the matter, fully and finally.

Regards,

Pahoran

[captain-jack]

Pirate Personality Test:

http://www.talklikeapirate.com/ppi.html

My results:

The Quartermaster

Profile: The Quartermaster (The shipâ??s disciplinarian).You, me hearty, are a man or woman of action! And what action it is! Gruesome, awful, delightful action. You mete out punishment to friend and foe alike â?? well, mostly to foe, because your burning inner rage isnâ??t likely to draw you a whole lot of the former. Still, though you may be what today is called â??high maintenanceâ? and in the past was called â??bat-**** crazy,â? the crew likes to have you around because in a pinch your maniacal combat prowess may be the only thing that saves them from Jack Ketch. When not in a pinch, the rest of the crew will goad you into berserker mode because itâ??s just kind of fun to watch. So you provide a double service â?? doling out discipline AND entertainment.

My results:

The Cap'n

Profile: Some men and women are born great, some achieve greatness and some slit the throats of any scalawag who stands between them and unlimited power. You never met a man - or woman - you couldn't eviscerate. You are the definitive Man of Action, the CEO of the Seven Seas, Lee Iacocca in a blousy shirt and drawstring-fly pants. You're mission-oriented, and if anyone gets in the way, that's his problem, now isn't? Your buckle was swashed long ago and you have never been so sure of anything as your ability to bend everyone to your will. You will call anyone out and cut off his head if he shows any sign of taking you on or backing down. If one of your lieutenants shows an overly developed sense of ambition he may find more suitable accommodations in Davy Jones' locker. That is, of course, IF you notice him. You tend

[Calm]

Okay did you guys here that Knight Rider is coming back on the air? What the heck is up with that. It was okay the first time around (just okay), but the second time around I can't imagine it will make it too long.

This thread has really gone off track even with Pahoran's valiant effort to keep it centered.

PS: I saw the pilot of the new Knight Rider awhile back. Val Kilmer was supposed the voice of KITT.

Let me just say I ache to have those hours back. It was horrible. This is one show I have no intention of watching...ever: http://www.nbc.com/Knight_Rider/