How Does Someone "steady The Ark"

[cinepro]

Every once in a while, someone is accused of "steadying the ark" on this board. It is used as a short-hand dismissal for different statements people have made that are interpreted as being critical of the Church. Here are a few examples:

Oh and nobody appointed you to "steady the Ark" either.

but regarding your general statement we should be careful that we are not trying to steady the ark. This is God's church and he'll run it his way.

If you (not you personally but you generally) are affirming faith don't steady the ark, that's the whole point of the steadying-the-ark story.

The church has never been too accommodating to those who would "steady the ark." And I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Here is the source of the story, from the Old Testament:

2 Samuel 6

1. [3] And they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart.
   
2. [6] And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.
   
3. [7] And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.
   
4. [8] And David was displeased, because the LORD had made a breach upon Uzzah: and he called the name of the place Perez-uzzah to this day.
   

How do people go from this story in 2 Samuel, to accusing people on this board of "steadying the ark"? First, it is apparently a capital offense to "steady the ark", so it would be a serious accusation (along the lines of being a murderer). How many other sins are there where God delivers death on the spot?

Second, it is never explained what, exactly, Uzzah did. Was he going to steal the ark? Was he going to defile it? Do we have any indication that his intentions were anything but sincere (other than the instant God-delivered death, of course)? How does this relate to people chatting on a message board and talking about how they wish the Church would pay for its own janitors or create lesson manuals that don't induce insomnia?

Now, I totally admit that if I were starting a Church , the third thing I would do is create a story about how people who criticize me or offer unnecessary tips for improvement are in danger of having God kill them on the spot. This would give my followers an easy shorthand for ignoring and silencing people who see through the fact that it was just me that started the Church. So I'm not questioning the usefulness of the story for Church leaders (or ark carriers).

I'm just curious how this one Old Testament story became ingrained in our culture to the point that it is so used? Where's the love for Elisha and the She-bears? Certainly, 42 kids getting mauled for making fun of a bald prophet should carry lessons for our day. But it's hardly ever mentioned (FWIW, I was made aware of the story when, at the age of 10, a friend and I were joking in primary that President Kimball could be "President Cornball". A kind primary teacher shared that story with me, and I never joked about the Prophet again.)

[RDC]

(FWIW, I was made aware of the story when, at the age of 10, a friend and I were joking in primary that President Kimball could be "President Cornball". A kind primary teacher shared that story with me, and I never joked about the Prophet again.)

Yeah, other than when you posted his likeness as Yoda for your avatar, right?

Seriously, though, I'm not sure how that story got interpreted the way it has, but it's obvious that in the church we like to "liken the scriptures" to ourselves, and this story has taken on that interpretation. It would be interesting to see when it was first applied in the church the way we read it today. Does anyone know, or is that the OP's intention to find out?

Poor Uzzah. My mom was right, you should keep your hands to yourself.

[asbestosman]

Now, I totally admit that if I were starting a Church , the third thing I would do is create a story about how people who criticize me or offer unnecessary tips for improvement are in danger of having God kill them on the spot. This would give my followers an easy shorthand for ignoring and silencing people who see through the fact that it was just me that started the Church. So I'm not questioning the usefulness of the story for Church leaders (or ark carriers).

If I were starting a church, I would also throw in a story about how people who question my ark-steadying story are in danger of having God kill them on the spot.

[cinepro]

Yeah, other than when you posted his likeness as Yoda for your avatar, right?

"His likeness as Yoda"? That makes no sense. It is Yoda, so that would be "Yoda's likeness". And it's not my fault they based Yoda on President Kimball.

[RDC]

"His likeness as Yoda"? That makes no sense. It is Yoda, so that would be "Yoda's likeness". And it's not my fault they based Yoda on President Kimball.

Riiiiiiiight. And the Force is based on the Priesthood. Does all your church knowledge come from Star Wars?

[Lightbearer]

Every once in a while, someone is accused of "steadying the ark" on this board. It is used as a short-hand dismissal for different statements people have made that are interpreted as being critical of the Church. Here are a few examples:

Oh and nobody appointed you to "steady the Ark" either.

but regarding your general statement we should be careful that we are not trying to steady the ark. This is God's church and he'll run it his way.

If you (not you personally but you generally) are affirming faith don't steady the ark, that's the whole point of the steadying-the-ark story.

The church has never been too accommodating to those who would "steady the ark." And I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Here is the source of the story, from the Old Testament:

How do people go from this story in 2 Samuel, to accusing people on this board of "steadying the ark"? First, it is apparently a capital offense to "steady the ark", so it would be a serious accusation (along the lines of being a murderer). How many other sins are there where God delivers death on the spot?

Second, it is never explained what, exactly, Uzzah did. Was he going to steal the ark? Was he going to defile it? Do we have any indication that his intentions were anything but sincere (other than the instant God-delivered death, of course)? How does this relate to people chatting on a message board and talking about how they wish the Church would pay for its own janitors or create lesson manuals that don't induce insomnia?

Now, I totally admit that if I were starting a Church , the third thing I would do is create a story about how people who criticize me or offer unnecessary tips for improvement are in danger of having God kill them on the spot. This would give my followers an easy shorthand for ignoring and silencing people who see through the fact that it was just me that started the Church. So I'm not questioning the usefulness of the story for Church leaders (or ark carriers).

I'm just curious how this one Old Testament story became ingrained in our culture to the point that it is so used? Where's the love for Elisha and the She-bears? Certainly, 42 kids getting mauled for making fun of a bald prophet should carry lessons for our day. But it's hardly ever mentioned (FWIW, I was made aware of the story when, at the age of 10, a friend and I were joking in primary that President Kimball could be "President Cornball". A kind primary teacher shared that story with me, and I never joked about the Prophet again.)

Perhaps it comes from the popularity of the movie: "Raiders of the Lost Ark"? Actually that story is alluded to in the D&C:

(D&C 85:8 ) "While that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning."

So it's use has precedence in the Church.

[katherine the great]

"His likeness as Yoda"? That makes no sense. It is Yoda, so that would be "Yoda's likeness". And it's not my fault they based Yoda on President Kimball.

I watched a biography on Star Wars and they showed the artist who created Yoda. He actually based him on himself (I do remember how many LDS people were sure that he was based on President Kimball.)

[John Larsen]

I watched a biography on Star Wars and they showed the artist who created Yoda. He actually based him on himself (I do remember how many LDS people were sure that he was based on President Kimball.)

Oh great. Next thing you are going to tell me is that Steve Martin isn't a Mormon.

[cinepro]

I watched a biography on Star Wars and they showed the artist who created Yoda. He actually based him on himself (I do remember how many LDS people were sure that he was based on President Kimball.)

Yeah, I was just kiddin'. The design process for Yoda is fairly well documented, and President Kimball didn't have anything to do with it.

A lot of the design was dictated by Frank Oz's insistence that it not have a jaw.

[Scott Lloyd]

I watched a biography on Star Wars and they showed the artist who created Yoda. He actually based him on himself (I do remember how many LDS people were sure that he was based on President Kimball.)

My 11-year-old, a Star Wars fan, thinks Yoda looks more like Gordon B. Hinckley, marking him as obviously having been born well past the Kimball era.

[RDC]

Perhaps it comes from the popularity of the movie: "Raiders of the Lost Ark"? Actually that story is alluded to in the D&C:So it's use has precedence in the Church.

I knew I/we could count on you to provide the usage. Your scriptural knowledge is admirable!

Other than in the D&C, the first usage I see is in 1833 in a letter to the churches abroad by the Prophet/Elders(?). HOC 1:382.

Is there an earlier usage?

[Lightbearer]

Yeah, I was just kiddin'. The design process for Yoda is fairly well documented, and President Kimball didn't have anything to do with it.

A lot of the design was dictated by Frank Oz's insistence that it not have a jaw.

Actually the movie "The Empire Strikes Back" came out while I was in the mission field and I think when I first saw Yoda it was on the cover of a Time Magazine in a grocery store and I thought that he had an uncanny resemblance to President Spencer W. Kimball. Oh and we all got light sabers issued to us by our Mission President.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

It appears that this thread has deveated. Lol

[LifeOnaPlate]

Every once in a while, someone is accused of "steadying the ark" on this board. It is used as a short-hand dismissal for different statements people have made that are interpreted as being critical of the Church. Here are a few examples:

Oh and nobody appointed you to "steady the Ark" either.

but regarding your general statement we should be careful that we are not trying to steady the ark. This is God's church and he'll run it his way.

If you (not you personally but you generally) are affirming faith don't steady the ark, that's the whole point of the steadying-the-ark story.

The church has never been too accommodating to those who would "steady the ark." And I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Here is the source of the story, from the Old Testament:

How do people go from this story in 2 Samuel, to accusing people on this board of "steadying the ark"? First, it is apparently a capital offense to "steady the ark", so it would be a serious accusation (along the lines of being a murderer). How many other sins are there where God delivers death on the spot?

Second, it is never explained what, exactly, Uzzah did. Was he going to steal the ark? Was he going to defile it? Do we have any indication that his intentions were anything but sincere (other than the instant God-delivered death, of course)? How does this relate to people chatting on a message board and talking about how they wish the Church would pay for its own janitors or create lesson manuals that don't induce insomnia?

Now, I totally admit that if I were starting a Church , the third thing I would do is create a story about how people who criticize me or offer unnecessary tips for improvement are in danger of having God kill them on the spot. This would give my followers an easy shorthand for ignoring and silencing people who see through the fact that it was just me that started the Church. So I'm not questioning the usefulness of the story for Church leaders (or ark carriers).

I'm just curious how this one Old Testament story became ingrained in our culture to the point that it is so used? Where's the love for Elisha and the She-bears? Certainly, 42 kids getting mauled for making fun of a bald prophet should carry lessons for our day. But it's hardly ever mentioned (FWIW, I was made aware of the story when, at the age of 10, a friend and I were joking in primary that President Kimball could be "President Cornball". A kind primary teacher shared that story with me, and I never joked about the Prophet again.)

Can I tease you about your apparent unfamiliarity with the D&C now? (or, hey, your unfamiliarity with the cross-referencing cheat notes in the margins of the LDS scriptures, even.)

[alter idem]

My 11-year-old, a Star Wars fan, thinks Yoda looks more like Gordon B. Hinckley, marking him as obviously having been born well past the Kimball era.

The longer we live, the more we all start looking like Yoda.

Which isn't a good thing for us females.

[Duncan]

David O. McKay

It is a little dangerous for us to go out of our own sphere and try unauthoritatively to direct the efforts of a brother. You remember the case of Uzza who stretched forth his hand to steady the ark. (See I Chron. 13:7-10.) He seemed justified, when the oxen stumbled, in putting forth his hand to steady that symbol of the covenant. We today think his punishment was very severe. Be that as it may, the incident conveys a lesson of life. Let us look around us and see how quickly men who attempt unauthoritatively to steady the ark die spiritually. Their souls become embittered, their minds distorted, their judgments faulty, and their spirits depressed. Such is the pitiable condition of men who, neglecting their own responsibilities spend their time in finding fault with others. (Gospel Ideals, p.258)

I wonder if its stepping out of our bounds to fix what we think may be a problem? Like counseling the stake president about something. I can tell him this is a problem but beyong that maybe is steadying the ark?

[Scott Lloyd]

Seriously, though, I'm not sure how that story got interpreted the way it has, but it's obvious that in the church we like to "liken the scriptures" to ourselves, and this story has taken on that interpretation. It would be interesting to see when it was first applied in the church the way we read it today. Does anyone know, or is that the OP's intention to find out?

What Cinepro is doing here, of course, is engaging in the popular pastime of excessive literalism.

No analogy is perfect and, in fact, most if not all, analogies are meant to apply to the thing to which they are compared in only limited respects.

When someone makes a charge of ark steadying these days, it is or should be obvious they are not accusing someone of a capital offense. Rather, it has become something of a shorthand figure of speech generally meant to communicate the idea, justified or not, that someone is presumptuously criticizing Church leaders in a way calculated to make them appear foolish, out-of-touch, whatever, when in reality, the critic, for whatever reason, lacks the capacity to make such a judgment.

[cjcampbell]

Steadying the ark is trying to do someone else's job in the Church, without being asked to help, because you don't think they are doing it well enough. Brethren who automatically go over to pass the sacrament because the deacon's quorum president didn't have enough people assigned are steadying the ark. A visiting teaching supervisor who visits sisters that her teachers did not see, just so she could get 100%, is steadying the ark. People who make a decision that should have been made by a Church leader are steadying the ark. Stake leaders who micro-manage Scouting are steadying the ark.

The problem with steadying the ark is it releases people from their callings when you had no authority to do that. There is nothing wrong with making suggestions to Church leaders. But just going ahead and doing your own thing without authority is steadying the ark.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Cynicpro: Please read the article called "Criticism" by Dallin H. Oaks which has been linked to several times. If you still have questions let's go from there.

[MormonMason]

...

Here is the source of the story, from the Old Testament:

How do people go from this story in 2 Samuel, to accusing people on this board of "steadying the ark"? First, it is apparently a capital offense to "steady the ark", so it would be a serious accusation (along the lines of being a murderer). How many other sins are there where God delivers death on the spot?

Second, it is never explained what, exactly, Uzzah did. Was he going to steal the ark? Was he going to defile it? Do we have any indication that his intentions were anything but sincere (other than the instant God-delivered death, of course)? How does this relate to people chatting on a message board and talking about how they wish the Church would pay for its own janitors or create lesson manuals that don't induce insomnia?

...

The reason for what happend to Uzzah was not his sincerity but what he had done. Only the priests were to touch the Ark of the Covenant. No one else was to do it. God commanded that. Uzzah saw that after he had hit a bump in the road, that the priest's weren't doing their job to keep the Ark upright and thought it would fall without his help. He accordingly tried to keep it from falling himself.

The Ark was not the only holy items only the levitical priests should touch. Rings were placed in the Ark for the placement of sticks in it for carrying by the Levites, as with one of the altars, so that only the levitical priests should touch the items. Anyone else who touched the holy items were warned that doing so would result in death.

KJV Numbers 4:14-15 And they shall put upon it all the vessels thereof, wherewith they minister about it, even the censers, the fleshhooks, and the shovels, and the basons, all the vessels of the altar; and they shall spread upon it a covering of badgers' skins, and put to the staves of it. And when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward; after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear it: but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die. These things are the burden of the sons of Kohath in the tabernacle of the congregation.

Uzzah did not think to use the staves intended for the purpose of bearing the ark but touched the ark itself, not being authorized to do anything more than carry the Ark.

The charge of "trying to steady the Ark" in LDS culture is that there are those who think that the Church will fall because some bump in the road happens and the people feel that the General Authorities are all clueless and cannot run the Church well enough without someone not authorized to fix things trying to tell the leaders of the Church that they are not doing the job right and that others could do it better.

I do not know of people who do such things being struck dead for doing it these days (some might get themselves excommunicated over it or apostatize over it, though!) but under the Law of Moses God was at his last straw with Israel. The Law of Moses was a Terrestrial Law for a hard-hearted people and there were harsh punishments for those who decided to do certain things that might violate the Law under certain circumstances. Sometimes he would handle it himself and sometimes he would have his servants take care of the matter.

[Fourty-niner]

Second, it is never explained what, exactly, Uzzah did. Was he going to steal the ark? Was he going to defile it? Do we have any indication that his intentions were anything but sincere (other than the instant God-delivered death, of course)? How does this relate to people chatting on a message board and talking about how they wish the Church would pay for its own janitors or create lesson manuals that don't induce insomnia?

The reason that Uzzah was put to death was that he touched the ark. In the Mosaic Law, YHVH had specifically commanded that only the sons of Kohath could touch the ark of the covenant. Once Uzzah touched the ark, he directly broke a commandment of YHVH, and YHVH punished him with immediate death.

I'm just curious how this one Old Testament story became ingrained in our culture to the point that it is so used? Where's the love for Elisha and the She-bears? Certainly, 42 kids getting mauled for making fun of a bald prophet should carry lessons for our day. But it's hardly ever mentioned (FWIW, I was made aware of the story when, at the age of 10, a friend and I were joking in primary that President Kimball could be "President Cornball". A kind primary teacher shared that story with me, and I never joked about the Prophet again.)

The lovely story of the bears mauling the 42 little children. Scholars have decided that the best translation of the word that the KJV translates as little children is actually "young men" between the ages of 12 and 30 and who likely were eligible for serving in the army. And what were these young men doing by making fun of him? They were first of all attacking his status as a prophet and mocking the work of God. Also, by calling him bald, they were insinuating that he was a leper - a despicable outcast of Israelite society who shaved his head.

[Hammer]

I watched a biography on Star Wars and they showed the artist who created Yoda. He actually based him on himself (I do remember how many LDS people were sure that he was based on President Kimball.)

He doesn't look anything like that guy. Bring back the Kimball story-- it is more believable.

[jadams_4242]

Every once in a while, someone is accused of "steadying the ark" on this board. It is used as a short-hand dismissal for different statements people have made that are interpreted as being critical of the Church. Here are a few examples:

Oh and nobody appointed you to "steady the Ark" either.

but regarding your general statement we should be careful that we are not trying to steady the ark. This is God's church and he'll run it his way.

If you (not you personally but you generally) are affirming faith don't steady the ark, that's the whole point of the steadying-the-ark story.

The church has never been too accommodating to those who would "steady the ark." And I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Here is the source of the story, from the Old Testament:

How do people go from this story in 2 Samuel, to accusing people on this board of "steadying the ark"? First, it is apparently a capital offense to "steady the ark", so it would be a serious accusation (along the lines of being a murderer). How many other sins are there where God delivers death on the spot?

Second, it is never explained what, exactly, Uzzah did. Was he going to steal the ark? Was he going to defile it? Do we have any indication that his intentions were anything but sincere (other than the instant God-delivered death, of course)? How does this relate to people chatting on a message board and talking about how they wish the Church would pay for its own janitors or create lesson manuals that don't induce insomnia?

Now, I totally admit that if I were starting a Church , the third thing I would do is create a story about how people who criticize me or offer unnecessary tips for improvement are in danger of having God kill them on the spot. This would give my followers an easy shorthand for ignoring and silencing people who see through the fact that it was just me that started the Church. So I'm not questioning the usefulness of the story for Church leaders (or ark carriers).

I'm just curious how this one Old Testament story became ingrained in our culture to the point that it is so used? Where's the love for Elisha and the She-bears? Certainly, 42 kids getting mauled for making fun of a bald prophet should carry lessons for our day. But it's hardly ever mentioned (FWIW, I was made aware of the story when, at the age of 10, a friend and I were joking in primary that President Kimball could be "President Cornball". A kind primary teacher shared that story with me, and I never joked about the Prophet again.)

I always thought that to mean "Noahs ark"? not the ark of the covenant.

[cinepro]

The lovely story of the bears mauling the 42 little children. Scholars have decided that the best translation of the word that the KJV translates as little children is actually "young men" between the ages of 12 and 30 and who likely were eligible for serving in the army. And what were these young men doing by making fun of him? They were first of all attacking his status as a prophet and mocking the work of God. Also, by calling him bald, they were insinuating that he was a leper - a despicable outcast of Israelite society who shaved his head.

That actually makes more sense.

Cynicpro: Please read the article called "Criticism" by Dallin H. Oaks which has been linked to several times. If you still have questions let's go from there.

LeafOnAP****, it looks like your spellchecker might be out of whack. It keeps spelling my name wrong.

[LifeOnaPlate]

That actually makes more sense. LeafOnAP****, it looks like your spellchecker might be out of whack. It keeps spelling my name wrong.

Nope. That's deliberate. As you well knew.