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The Main Difference Between Mormonism And Trad. Christianity


Olavarria

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If someone where to ask me what the biggest difference between mormonism and traditional christianity is, what would it be?

It isn't the BoM. It isn't polygamy. It isn't the temple or the pluralty of gods. I think it is the role faith, grace and works play into salvation.

Nephi said, "It is by GRACE that we are saved after ALL WE CAN DO." Without Christ and His atonement all would be damned. But we get this grace after ALL WE CAN DO, not after ALL WE CAN BELIEVE. It makes no difference if you accept the gospel on your death bed. If you were sodomizing children or leaving pick axes in the chests of innocents, a death bed confession of Jesus or mormonism isn't going to do you any good.

I sure some will disagree, but in mormonism DEEDS outweigh BELIEFS.

In traditional christianty, BELIEFS outweigh DEEDS

when it comes to recieveing grace.

Some have said that we worship a different Jesus. This has some merit. The Jesus I follow does not save ax murderers who confess the night of their execution, while allowing a Rabbi who lived an honorable life, while teaching that Jesus was not the Messiah, spend the rest of eternity in a never ending holocaust.

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I think that's the reason why people do not think we are Christian. Without ever knowing you or me critics may say that our deeds do not identify us as being Christian.How can anyone who has never had the pleasure of meeting me say I am not Christian based on my actions? To critics, beliefs outweigh deeds as if the two are different.

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I think that's the reason why people do not think we are Christian. Without ever knowing you or me critics may say that our deeds do not identify us as being Christian.How can anyone who has never had the pleasure of meeting me say I am not Christian based on my actions? To critics, beliefs outweigh deeds as if the two are different.

The thing is, this attitude of belief over deeds goes tottally against the Torah. The Torah(1st 5 books) has more than 600 commandments and not one creed.

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I really don't care what's important. All I want is to be like Jesus, is that too much to ask? Is it too hard to try? Why should I get punished for trying to emulate my Saviour? Why shouldn't I seek after God's blessings? If God make me a promise, shouldn't I try to prove him?

Works are all fine and dandy, after all they are the gate into heaven. Of course the gate is locked and only Jesus has the key.

If you arn't doing it in the name of Jesus Christ, you are doing Jack Squat!

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In traditional christianty, BELIEFS outweigh DEEDS

when it comes to recieveing grace.

Some have said that we worship a different Jesus. This has some merit. The Jesus I follow does not save ax murderers who confess the night of their execution, while allowing a Rabbi who lived an honorable life, while teaching that Jesus was not the Messiah, spend the rest of eternity in a never ending holocaust.

I think you're right. The Jesus I serve does happen to save ax murders who confess the night of their execution.

It's called grace, Chief. And, I'm sure, if you poll a thousand EV Christians, they will affirm that our deeds don't matter. Only belief. Do you catch the sarcasm here? Because, I'm sure tryin' to throw it your direction.

At the risk of getting the thread closed down (which I'm not trying to do), how many times has Adolph been baptized by proxy? He didn't confess the night of his death, but he's in line for exaltation, according to some interpretations of LDS eschatology. Does this square with your faith simply because he was dead before he heard the LDS gospel? So, really, does the LDS gospel allow for incredibly magnanimous Christ-centered grace only after death, or before?

CKS

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I think you're right. The Jesus I serve does happen to save ax murders who confess the night of their execution.

It's called grace, Chief. And, I'm sure, if you poll a thousand EV Christians, they will affirm that our deeds don't matter. Only belief. Do you catch the sarcasm here? Because, I'm sure tryin' to throw it your direction.

I didnt say works dont matter in trad. christianity. I never accused anyone of "easy belifism". All Im saying is that in TC belief out weighs deeds. In mormonism the opposite is true, but that is not to say that correct theology is unimportant in mormonism either. How am I wrong?

At the risk of getting the thread closed down (which I'm not trying to do), how many times has Adolph been baptized by proxy?

1 time is too many, if it has actually happened. It wouldnt surprise me if it did.

He didn't confess the night of his death, but he's in line for exaltation, according to some interpretations of LDS eschatology.
Exactly some interpretations, not mine.
Does this square with your faith simply because he was dead before he heard the LDS gospel? So, really, does the LDS gospel allow for incredibly magnanimous Christ-centered grace only after death, or before?
By grace we are saved ,after all we can do. AFTER ALL WE CAN DO. Not after all we can believe.

How am I wrong? Am I to believe that mo's dont emphasis works in salavation more than other christians? Does mormon theology put belief over deeds?

Just read any report from a general conference, you will see alot of emphasis on theology, more so than say at a jewish synagouge. But you will also see constant calls for repentance and changes in behavior and an understanding that all the theological belief in Joseph or Jesus wont allow the atonement to cleanse you with repentance and all the good you can do.

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If someone where to ask me what the biggest difference between mormonism and traditional christianity is, what would it be?

It isn't the BoM. It isn't polygamy. It isn't the temple or the pluralty of gods. I think it is the role faith, grace and works play into salvation.

Nephi said, "It is by GRACE that we are saved after ALL WE CAN DO." Without Christ and His atonement all would be damned. But we get this grace after ALL WE CAN DO, not after ALL WE CAN BELIEVE. It makes no difference if you accept the gospel on your death bed. If you were sodomizing children or leaving pick axes in the chests of innocents, a death bed confession of Jesus or mormonism isn't going to do you any good.

I sure some will disagree, but in mormonism DEEDS outweigh BELIEFS.

In traditional christianty, BELIEFS outweigh DEEDS

when it comes to recieveing grace.

Some have said that we worship a different Jesus. This has some merit. The Jesus I follow does not save ax murderers who confess the night of their execution, while allowing a Rabbi who lived an honorable life, while teaching that Jesus was not the Messiah, spend the rest of eternity in a never ending holocaust.

Personally I believe that the grace verses works issue is overrated and mostly a misunderstanding of terms. There have been several terms associated with the concepts of faith and works that boil down to a difference of emphasis.

I believe there are two doctrines that separate LDS from traditional Trinitarian Christianity. The first doctrine is the doctrine of the fall. LDS believe that man has fallen from the grace of G-d the Father and must be redeemed or saved by the Mediator, Jesus Christ â?? the Son of G-d the Father. The Trinitarians are confused in that they believe man has relationship with the same G-d before and after the fall â?? so there is no Mediator or need for a mediator. This in turn confuses me because if man needs no mediator to G-d then Jesus if a fraud. If man needs a mediator to save him then there is more than one G-d. There is the G-d that mediates for man and the G-d with whom the mediatory mediates.

The second major doctrine of difference was taught by Jesus himself. Jesus said that his followers (disciples) would do all (everything) that he had done. We learn that Jesus is the means through which all was created. Traditional Trinitarians believe that Jesus lied when he said we would do (create) all that Jesus has done. They deny that Jesus has the power to make creators of men.

The Traveler

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By grace we are saved ,after all we can do. AFTER ALL WE CAN DO. Not after all we can believe.

Dr. Robert L. Millett, and I believe Dr. Stephen L. Robinson would disagree with your interpretation of this verse (as would I). They interpret "after all" to be the equivalent of "in spite of." Ergo, the scripture would read: "By grace are we saved, in spite of all we can do." I think this is much more in the spirit of Pauline emphasis on grace, an emphasis I see in the Christian world that I believe is admirable (I leave room for holy envy on this topic).

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Her Amun,

It doesn't make sense to talk about "Traditional Christianity" as though there is unanimity among all non-Mormon Christians on the issue you present. I could concede that works and faith is probably a big difference between LDS and some Protestants who would by no means comprise anywhere near a majority among non-LDS Christians. I can't concede that this minority group defines "Traditional Christianity".

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I really don't care what's important. All I want is to be like Jesus, is that too much to ask? Is it too hard to try? Why should I get punished for trying to emulate my Saviour? Why shouldn't I seek after God's blessings? If God make me a promise, shouldn't I try to prove him?

Works are all fine and dandy, after all they are the gate into heaven. Of course the gate is locked and only Jesus has the key.

If you arn't doing it in the name of Jesus Christ, you are doing Jack Squat!

How are you going to be like Jesus? By sitting on your couch and thinking about Him? And then drips a blessing on you like manna? How about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, caring for the widows and orphans? How about losing yourself in the service of others, so you will find yourself?

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Dr. Robert L. Millett, and I believe Dr. Stephen L. Robinson would disagree with your interpretation of this verse (as would I). They interpret "after all" to be the equivalent of "in spite of." Ergo, the scripture would read: "By grace are we saved, in spite of all we can do." I think this is much more in the spirit of Pauline emphasis on grace, an emphasis I see in the Christian world that I believe is admirable (I leave room for holy envy on this topic).

I respectfully disagree with Prof. Millet, or your interpretation of Millet.

1) faith

2)repentance

3)baptism

4)gift of Holy Ghost

5)Endure to the end

Acts, whether sacramental or ethical, outweight the theology by a ratio of 4 to 1.

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I respectfully disagree with Prof. Millet, or your interpretation of Millet.

1) faith

2)repentance

3)baptism

4)gift of Holy Ghost

5)Endure to the end

Acts, whether sacramental or ethical, outweight the theology by a ratio of 4 to 1.

Those are outward manifestations and internal changes. What is the mechanism by which man is exalted? How much can you "do" before you can be considered as having done "all you can do"? 98%? 99%? 70%?

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Her Amun,

It doesn't make sense to talk about "Traditional Christianity" as though there is unanimity among all non-Mormon Christians on the issue you present. I could concede that works and faith is probably a big difference between LDS and some Protestants who would by no means comprise anywhere near a majority among non-LDS Christians. I can't concede that this minority group defines "Traditional Christianity".

When I say trad.C I include catholics and the eastern orthodox. I didnt say protestants or Ev's exclusily; I said traditional christians: Nicene creed, closed canon, the fall was bad, confess Christ or burn forever "in a lake of fire".

This is why jews and muslims were forced to convert under penalty of death in Spain. This is why anglicans were burned at the stake during the reign of Bloody Mary.. This is why mormon theology is lampooned 24/7. This is why Mitt Romney is alaways asked theoloical questians(this is not a plug). Why? Because what a person believes is more important than what he does.

Mormons "aren't christian" because we follow a "different Jesus" not because they dont live according to the law.

Those are outward manifestations and internal changes. What is the mechanism by which man is exalted? How much can you "do" before you can be considered as having done "all you can do"? 98%? 99%? 70%?

That of course is up to God, He is the judge. I just know that my throne in the CK is not gauranteed, no matter how "spiritual" some people think I am.

Mormons are expected to make covenants and keep them.

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Mormons are expected to make covenants and keep them.

They're also expected to be perfect. Matthew 5:48--"Be ye therefore perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Are you perfect right now? If not, you are breaking a commandment of Jesus and not fulfilling your covenants. He said be (present tense) not try to be or if you keep working at it, you may someday become perfect. Christ set up a spiritual law to replace the Mosaic, culminating in this commandment.

The only way to be perfect is through the grace of Jesus -- to have his righteousness imputed to you (Romans 4:6). No one keeps their commandments perfectly, Her Amun -- we all need the grace of our Savior.

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As to "Traditional Christianity" are we refering to the #1 Catholic, #2 Eastern Orthodox,#3 Myriad of Christian Denominations, or the Direct line that KJV advocates adhere to [Refered to as "Briders" by some] ?.

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They're also expected to be perfect. Matthew 5:48--"Be ye therefore perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Are you perfect right now? If not, you are breaking a commandment of Jesus and not fulfilling your covenants. He said be (present tense) not try to be or if you keep working at it, you may someday become perfect. Christ set up a spiritual law to replace the Mosaic, culminating in this commandment.

The only way to be perfect is through the grace of Jesus -- to have his righteousness imputed to you (Romans 4:6). No one keeps their commandments perfectly, Her Amun -- we all need the grace of our Savior.

Well duh. I think your misunderstanding me. We are saved by GRACE..

But who does God give grace too?

Ah... that is the questian. I think that is answered clearly in the scriptures: who follow the first principles and ordinances of the gospel. 1)faith 2)repentance(which entails a change in behvior) 3)bap etc.

Belief isnt enough. That is why U or I, can have our recommends revoked for watching porno, beating our wives, adultery, robbing banks etc.

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Well duh. I think your misunderstanding me. We are saved by GRACE..

But who does God give grace too?

Ah... that is the questian. I think that is answered clearly in the scriptures: who follow the first principles and ordinances of the gospel. 1)faith 2)repentance(which entails a change in behvior) 3)bap etc.

Fair enough.

That is why U or I, can have our recommends revoked for robbing banks etc.

We can?? Oh, crap...

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I have thought a lot about what is the MOST significant difference between traditional Christianity and Mormonism, and I don't think our doctrine of grace is it. Rather, I think it is the self-centeredness of God, his passion to glorify himself. From that flows the traditional Christian doctrines of the purpose of life, the nature of man, the design of salvation, and the afterlife.

http://biggergod.com/self-centeredness.html

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I have thought a lot about what is the MOST significant difference between traditional Christianity and Mormonism, and I don't think our doctrine of grace is it. Rather, I think it is the self-centeredness of God, his passion to glorify himself. From that flows the traditional Christian doctrines of the purpose of life, the nature of man, the design of salvation, and the afterlife.

http://biggergod.com/self-centeredness.html

hhmmmm. Please explain further, Im not trying to bash but to see your point of view. Clarity is mor important to me than agreement.

or I could just check the link.

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hhmmmm. Please explain further, Im not trying to bash but to see your point of view. Clarity is mor important to me than agreement.

or I could just check the link.

I went and read Aaron's thesis:

God is the one Being in the entire universe for whom self-centeredness, or the pursuit of his own glory, is the ultimately loving act. For him, self-exaltation is the highest virtue. When he does all things â??for the praise of his glory,â? he preserves for us and offers to us, the only thing in the entire world, which can satisfy our longings. God is for us, and therefore has been, is now and always will be, first, for himself. I urge you not to resent the centrality of God in his own affections, but to experience it as the fountain of your everlasting joy.

Don't know that I really agree with his premise or the idea that this (God is self-centered) is the biggest difference between Mormonism and Traditional Christianity, but he is certainly welcome to his opinion.

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I sure some will disagree, but in mormonism DEEDS outweigh BELIEFS.

Six: I would be one of those who disagree with you. I think that the statement above distorts and over-simplifies LDS doctrine.

A more accurate statement would be:

"In Mormonism, DEEDS are as important as BELIEFS."

The concept in Mormonism is that you cannot have one without the other and be saved. Deeds without faith are dead. Belief without deeds is dead.

To say that deeds are required is not to say they outweigh beliefs.

Regards,

Six

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Well, traditional Christianity is the Catholic church and they believe in salvation through works. We are saved by grace through faith. Never in the bible does it say we are saved by grace alone. Faith without works, after all, is dead. Those who do, says Jesus, not those who say only. The Christians that take issue with the LDS doctrine of grace and works are not by any stretch of the imagination traditional Christians. They are the most common denominations in North America, but they are not traditional. They are very few in number, perhaps just 5% or so of world wide Christianity. At least as far as I understand the numbers.

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Freedom makes an excellent point.

If you took all those who confess to be Christians and asked them the relationship between our faith and our actions, the vast majority would interpret the Bible to say that faith and works are both intertwined and required for Salvation.

"Faith-only" salvation is really a factional doctrinal interpretation...and new with the reformation.

It is a mistake to assign "faith-only" as the standard of traditional Christianity.

Regards,

Six

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Her Amun,

>> If someone where to ask me what the biggest difference between mormonism and traditional christianity is, what would it be?

For me a big diference is the Mormon teaching that "it is up to each of us to do our part and become worthy of exaltation."

For me everything is grace, it is God that works in us (Phil 2:13). God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes.

Phil.2

[13] For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

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