Should Mormons Include Weapons In Their Preparedness?

[DonBradley]

Wow, Don. You are really in one of your moods today. Did you miss your nap?

Actually, Cold Steel, I believe I missed my afternoon pill.

I was just riffing on HP's eccentric posting, and providing myself some free entertainment.

Besides, I'm home all alone for a few days.

Don

[grego]

The Prophets have REPEATEDLY warned us NOT to stockpile weapons.

Though I don't know anyone who has even mentioned this, still, I would like to be clear on this: CFR, please.

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Strict gun control = increase in crime: http://nrawinningteam.com/auresult.html

Other gun stats: http://www.swedesdock.com/guncntrl.sht

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From http://home.overflow.net.au/~nedwood/guns.html:

INTERESTING TO NOTE THE GUN CONTROL HISTORY OF REPUBLICS AROUND THE WORLD

1-----In the United States the first gun control laws were enacted during the Civil War era to prevent guns from falling into the hands of black slaves who might be inclined to attack their masters and thereby keeping control in the hands of the latter.

2-----The Turkish Ottoman Empire established gun control in 1911, proceeding then to exterminate 1.5 million Armenians from 1914 - 1917.

3-----The Soviet Union established gun control in 1929. Subsequently from 1928 - 1953, 60 million dissidents were imprisoned and then exterminated.

4-----China. Gun control laws were enacted in 1935. Between 1948 - 1952, 20 million Chinese, unable to defend themselves, were likewise murdered.

5-----Nazi Germany established gun control in 1938...

6-----Guatemala. Gun control laws were passed in 1964: as a result, between 1964 - 1981, 100,000 defenceless Mayan Indians met their deaths.

7-----Uganda. Established gun control measures in 1970. Predictably, from 1971 - 1979, 300,000 defenceless Christians met a similar fate.

8-----Cambodia. Established gun control measures in 1956, subsequently from 1957 - 1977 one million Cambodians met their deaths.

9-----Closer to home, Indonesia, another Republic, has a similar record. Out of a population of just one million people in East Timor, 200,000 have been killed over the past twenty years until the recent bloodshed when it still unknown how many thousands more have been murdered. Being promised freedom these brave people elected to vote in a referendum during which the United Nations guaranteed their safety and still they died unarmed and defenceless.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Latter-day Saints are told to have food and medical supplies, and plenty of drinking water and water for cleansing. This not only is for natural disasters like hurricanes, earthquakes and so forth, but is part of our preparedness for a time when the government is no longer able to sustain order. In 1992, Hurricane Andrew was a perfect example of large communities having no police or medical services. Many people, in fact, wrote: "Armed. Will shoot to kill!" and similar warnings scrawled on their homes.

That wasn't the only disaster that year. In April the L.A. riots swept through one of the most populated areas in the U.S. According to one report:

As the city burned, movie stars fled and politicians buried their heads in the sand, hoping the crisis would go away. Many middle-class citizens, watching the carnage on their television sets, rushed to gun shops to purchase firearms. They quicky learned that because of a 15-day waiting period, their own government had made it impossible for them to protect themselves. The law-abiding poor had little hopeâ??as the riots became more widespread and violent, Chief Daryl Gates ordered the cops to retreat.

Calls for help came in to 911 by the hundreds. But citizens were informed that no assistance was available. Order had broken down. People were on their own.

On the streets, law-abiding citizens were being beaten, robbed, and murdered in an orgy of rage. Much of the violence was racially motivated, as exemplified by the brutal attack on Reginald Denny. While cameras rolled, the white truck driver was dragged from the cab of his big-rig and beaten senseless. He was saved only after a small group of courageous blacks defied the mob and rushed him to a hospital.

One gun store owner later testified: â??I stood on the roof of the Lucky Electronics [store] across the street from our gun shop, along with several other neighbors. I had a 12-guage riot shotgun and a Beretta 92F pistol. Another employee had a Colt AR-15 Sporter rifle. We called the police for help, but they never came. Some looters tried to break down the door of the gun store, but we fired warning shots that drove them away. This happened many times, and before it was over, we fired 200 rounds of ammunition.â?

On 9/11, there also was much to consider. Author Robert Walters noted: â??Americans quickly sensed that something had changed. They understood that the security they thought they'd bought with outrageous taxes was only a mirage. Even those who had never thought of owning a gun began to rethink their positions. As the owner of a Florida gun shop said, 'People who were against guns or were against keeping guns in their homes, those are the people coming in....'"

Brigham Young said: â??If we are not ready for any enemy when he comes upon us, we have not lived up to the requirements of Him who guides the ship of Zion, or who dictates the affairs of His kingdom.â? He also reminded the saints that when gathering their supplies, to remember to have enough ammunition, noting that firearms without ammunition were of little worth.

Now, however, the church never mentions weapons or self protection. Is it prudent to depend upon God for our protection or should we have weapons with our food and medical supplies? The pioneers had firearms and most of the early saints of this dispensation. In fact, about the only Mormons who didn't have weapons were the ones murdered at Haun's Mill.

In a society that has no food, police or medical service, especially in times of civil unrest, should we only trust in the Lord, or should we be prepared to defend ourselves and our families?

I am a gun collector...even within this conservitive church, liberal thinking has creeped in. The media has done a good job of demonizing gun owners. You don't just need guns for protection but if things get realy bad for hunting food.

Pa Pa

[The Nehor]

Grego, your examples are a little one-sided. Britain and much of Western Europe has strict gun laws and it has not resulted in the purging of dissident factions.

In my experience though the cops are a lot tougher because they have no guns to fall back on. I still remember the British cop who I watched brain 3 guys who attacked him with his flashlight. Later I talked to the guy (when our house was broken into) and he said it works better than the nightstick.

[Still_Small_Voice]

My own advise on owning firearms. A firearm will do you no good if you don't recieve the proper training on how to use it for self defense. Be prepared to invest around $600 in professional training with whatever firearm you choose.

I can recommend a firearm training facility that trains civilians for self defense that is top of the line in the United States if anyone is interested (however if you have criminal record this place will very likely refuse to train you). Send me a personal message if you are interested.

I would rather have a firearm and not need it than need it and not have it.

[Cold Steel]

My own advice on owning firearms. A firearm will do you no good if you don't recieve the proper training on how to use it for self defense. Be prepared to invest around $600 in professional training with whatever firearm you choose.

Although training is strongly advised, most users can find reasonable courses for much less than $600. A good defense book through Amazon.com can also supplement practice. Many people without any trainiing whatsoever have managed to stop criminals from victimizing them. Masaad Ayoob has a book called In the Gravest Extreme, which is a nice book to read on the legal ramifications of using a handgun. He's also written a large, inexpensive book with photos entitled The Gun Digest of Combat Handgunnery.

[mocnarf]

What would Jesus do?

When Jesus returns it won't be with an olive branch. I believe he is coming with the hosts of heaven and the wicked will be slaughtered by the millions. So what Jesus would do ?

[Still_Small_Voice]

Although training is strongly advised, most users can find reasonable courses for much less than $600. A good defense book through Amazon.com can also supplement practice. Many people without any training whatsoever have managed to stop criminals from victimizing them. Masaad Ayoob has a book called In the Gravest Extreme, which is a nice book to read on the legal ramifications of using a handgun. He's also written a large, inexpensive book with photos entitled The Gun Digest of Combat Handgunnery.

The training with firearms I have received has made me a proficient shooter. I know I couldn't have got this training thru just reading books. I still highly advocate receiving firearm training by professionals and then practicing to maintain your skill at arms.

In a crisis situation I know I would not want to use a firearm with minimal training. It could get you or a loved one killed because you didn't know how to clear a jammed rifle or how to take the safety off.

[Severian]

When Jesus returns it won't be with an olive branch. I believe he is coming with the hosts of heaven and the wicked will be slaughtered by the millions. So what Jesus would do ?

Best to be heavily armed then. The BFG10K could be useful .

[thesometimesaint]

Bend over and kiss your sweet bippy goodbye.

http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/feature/2004/.../Grable_med.jpg

[erichard]

Great quote. Who said it? Hitler? Stalin?

...

Cold Steel. I kinda like the laser beam weapon that comes from your eyes. Where can I get one?

Here are some D&C quotes about the Constitution:

D&C 98:5-6

5. And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.

6. Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land.

D&C 101:77 & 80

77. ....I have suffered [the Constitution] to be established and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles.

80. ...I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.â?

I recommend everyone memorize the Constitution's Second Amendment:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

[simply_disappear]

Yanno, I can't think of a better item to include in our list of preparations. The only things I'd recommend would be actually knowing what you have, how to load them, use the safety mechanisms, how to shoot them, what is good for which type of shot/hunt, and how to store/carry them safely/legally yet with the availability for their intended purpose. Not only should the adults in the home understand these things but the viable youngsters in the home as well.

People shouldn't just run out and buy a firearm and put it in the home with the ammo locked up in one place and the weapon/s in another. What works best is to teach respect for the weapon/s by all in the home.

What a great home evening could be had by an outing to ye local rifle range! yay! that would get my vote every time.............

I can't count the people in our lives who won't keep a weapon in their home yet state in a joking way how they would make sure to find themselves in our company if something went awry in our world.....funny that.

[simply_disappear]

Best to be heavily armed then. The BFG10K could be useful .

Or perhaps Mr. Barrett will indulge us with some nice "little" trinkets???? lol........at least these are real, kwim? and legal to boot.........

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,1463...rett50,,00.html

[simply_disappear]

The training with firearms I have received has made me a proficient shooter. I know I couldn't have got this training thru just reading books. I still highly advocate receiving firearm training by professionals and then practicing to maintain your skill at arms.

In a crisis situation I know I would not want to use a firearm with minimal training. It could get you or a loved one killed because you didn't know how to clear a jammed rifle or how to take the safety off.

The quote says "supplement" practice....not replace practice....

Many people actually learn easier if they read about what it is they are preparing to embark upon. Just like many of us are better at OJT and HOE. Depends on the learner's "type".

[SolarPowered]

and legal to boot.........

Not if you live in the People's Republic of Khalifonya. Which is particularly ironic, because they're actually made here.

[grego]

Grego, your examples are a little one-sided. Britain and much of Western Europe has strict gun laws and it has not resulted in the purging of dissident factions.

References help when making statements like this.

[SolarPowered]

Grego, your examples are a little one-sided. Britain and much of Western Europe has strict gun laws and it has not resulted in the purging of dissident factions.

Yet.

[The Nehor]

References help when making statements like this.

Okay, I've studied European History and Britain has to my knowledge not purged any dissident groups...nor has France....nor has Spain in the last....let's say.....six decades.

It is hard to find references describing in detail the lack of ethnic and social cleansing. Either the literature doesn't exist or it's so boring no one has ever read it.

[Orpheus]

Don't shoot me but when pictures of guns start going up it might be time to close the thread.