GAs decended from Christ?

[cjcampbell]

And if it doesn't shock you too much, there is a prevalent view among many that Church members in general, not just General Authorities, are literal descendants of Christ. If you believe that Mary Magdalene was Jesus' wife, and had a child with Him, and you do your genealogy, you are mostly likely descended through that line. Most people with any European ancestry are.

Charity,

I love you to death, but ??????

I've been a member of the Church almost fifteen years and never heard this.

I have never heard it in church, but I have seen genealogies indicating that I am descended from Jesus Christ (or, more commonly, from John, the brother of Jesus). Such genealogies were created by people such as Geoffrey of Monmouth, for example, who wanted to prove a divine right of rulership for the kings of Europe. Apparently it never occurred to Geoffrey that if his theories were actually true that everyone in Europe (and by now, most of the rest of the world) would be descended from Jesus Christ. Almost all Europeans can trace their ancestry into a royal line somewhere. This also points up the silliness of books like The DaVinci Code. If the premise of the book were true, Jesus could well have billions of descendents by now.

So it is not a Church doctrine, really, but rather something that was once widely believed by people both in and out of the Church. None of this had anything to do with the adoption of the beehive as a symbol. The Book of Mormon mentions deseret, which it says means the honeybee, as carried by the Jaredites. People like Hugh Nibley have taught that if the Book of Mormon meant actual honeybees, it would not have used a word like deseret. It would have just said honeybees. So deseret is assumed to be a symbol for something too sacred to be mentioned directly, such as sacred lineage, priesthood, or temple ordinances. In fact, Egyptian rulers also used the honeybee as a symbol of royalty. So adoption of the beehive as a Church symbol springs not from the Merovingians, but the Church symbol and the Merovingian symbols may well have a common origin.

[cougarfan]

Does he name the island?

Fantasy Island?

[thesometimesaint]

journeyman:

My personal pedigree goes back to just after the Battle of Hastings. We then lose the family name.

[cinepro]

20 generations back you have 2 million ancestors.

Maybe in a math class, but not in the real world.

[charity]

cinepro, I didn't get too technical, because genealogy has seemed beyond the ken of a lot of people posting here. We have seen this in the DNA topics. Of course, if everyone had a different set of ancestors, there would be billions of people at a time when there was no where near that population.

And we find the same people appearing in different slots on pedigree charts. However, your comment about royalty does skew things a little. Royalty often were very restricted in potential mates because they had to marry within the ranks of the royalty. But the numbers are definitely mind boggling if you count them up.

Let see, if we cut them down in half, you only have 10 million ancestors of which Jesus might literally be one. And with only one added generation, it has the possibility of doubling, yet again. That is the math.

[cinepro]

Actually, it's not even true in math class.

With no inbreeding, 20 generations gives you 4,164,304 theorectical ancestors.

Needless to say, I totally agree with the first sentence in your previous post

[cougarfan]

cinepro, I didn't get too technical, because genealogy has seemed beyond the ken of a lot of people posting here.  We have seen this in the DNA topics.  Of course, if everyone had a different set of ancestors, there would be billions of people at a time when there was no where near that population.

And we find the same people appearing in different slots on pedigree charts.  However, your comment about royalty does skew things a little. Royalty often were very restricted in potential mates because they had to marry within the ranks of the royalty.  But the numbers are definitely  mind boggling if you count them up.

Let see, if we cut them down in half, you only have 10 million ancestors of which Jesus might literally be one.  And with only one added generation, it has the possibility of doubling, yet again.  That is the math.

At 4 generations per 100 years, Jesus would be back at 80 generations. That is something like 1.2x10^24.

The fact is that throughout most history, people lived in closed communities and the pedigree chart begins to have many many many duplicates. Your living ancestors at the time of Christ my have been in the tens of thousands, but unlikely very many more.

[SolarPowered]

The fact is that throughout most history, people lived in closed communities and the pedigree chart begins to have many many many duplicates. Your living ancestors at the time of Christ my have been in the tens of thousands, but unlikely very many more

I understand that there was a lot of migration of females to neighboring towns, and over longer distances as well. So, over the course of many generations, you end up getting a great deal of mixing over long geographical distances.

[cougarfan]

The fact is that throughout most history, people lived in closed communities and the pedigree chart begins to have many many many duplicates. Your living ancestors at the time of Christ my have been in the tens of thousands, but unlikely very many more

I understand that there was a lot of migration of females to neighboring towns, and over longer distances as well. So, over the course of many generations, you end up getting a great deal of mixing over long geographical distances.

I am sure a good computer model would give us something we could continue to argue about.

However, lets look at my father in law who is of 100% Norwegian extraction and largely from two fairly isolated interior areas. The entire population of Norway in BC 1 was probably fewer than 100,000. His ancestors at that point could be as little as a few thousand.

Both of my parents 4 generation chart contain duplicates. I really think that a real complete pedigree would expand and collapse on itself over and over again.

[SolarPowered]

I guess I didn't make my point about migration clear. If you take just one chick--that's 1, uno, unity, just a bit more than zilch--who happened to be descended from half of Europe and the Middle East, move her into your isolated area in Norway in 1500 AD, and by today you would have everybody in that area being descended from half of Europe and the Middle East, just from her contribution.

It doesn't take much migration at all to have everybody descended from everybody over the course of a couple thousand years.

[Baurak Ale]

Hermetically Sealed

[alter idem]

The only thing I wonder about those statements is how could the bretheren be related unless their patriachal blessings state they are of the tribe of Judah. I personally believe there is a different Heavenly Mother for Each of the 12 Tribes of Israel and Possibley for each of the 22 or 24 can't remember arabic tribes. I don't think the bretheren at the time or today are likely to be from the tribe of Judah. However it could have spiritual meaning rather than literal.

Charles Krauthammer's editorial which I read in yesterday's Deseret News was on how he believes everyone who is anyone has jewish blood in them. I tend to agree with him. However, many of us who know we have jewish blood still come from the tribe of Ephraim. In other words, a PB isn't to establish one's pedigree--it is to establish through which tribe one's inherited blessings and responsibilities lie. Bsides, most of us are a mix of tribes and non-tribes, I'm sure.

[Calm]

Charles Krauthammer's editorial which I read in yesterday's Deseret News was on how he believes everyone who is anyone has jewish blood in them.

I do so he must be right.

[katherine the great]

This thread is scaring me.

[fox_goku]

The Beehive comes from the Book of Ether in the Book of Mormon.

Ether 2: 3 And they did also carry with them deseret, which, by interpretation, is a honey bee; and thus they did carry with them swarms of bees, and all manner of that which was upon the face of the land, seeds of every kind.

Charity:

While it is true the Book of Mormon talks about swarms of bees as deseret, the actual symbol used by the Church comes from Free Masonry. If you Google "Free Masonry and beehive" you will find a number of sites which display the original symbol borrowed by our Church.

Incidently, a number of symbols used by the Church come from that source, particularly those that appear on the Nauvoo Temple and the Salt Lake Temple.

[mbh26]

Didn't the semiary manual teach that Jesus got God Like Powers here in mortality due to his paternity. What kind of powers would be passed on to Jesus's offspring if he were to have them? For instance, Jesus could die because His mother was mortal, yet He could resurrect Himself because His Father was immortal. I guess I haven't yet seen evidence of supernatural power in any of these alleged descendants of Jesus.

[katherine the great]

Didn't the semiary manual teach that Jesus got God Like Powers here in mortality due to his paternity. What kind of powers would be passed on to Jesus's offspring if he were to have them?

I agree with you. It would be an unfair advantage to some. Although, I do have some French Ancestry, so if it turns out that I, myself, am a descendant of the Savior, I guess it's okay. (The whole idea just seems ludicrous to me...)