Did only the Gods create the earth?

[marineland]

Can you explain the difference between Abraham 3:24 and Abraham 4:1?

In Abraham 3:24, it says:

"And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those 
who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take 
of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell".

In Abraham 4:1, it says:

"And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, 
and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth".

Did only the Gods go down to create the earth or were there others who were 
not Gods?  And which Gods went down?

[Pyreaux]

11 hours ago, marineland said:

Can you explain the difference between Abraham 3:24 and Abraham 4:1?

In Abraham 3:24, it says:

"And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those 
who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take 
of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell".

In Abraham 4:1, it says:

"And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, 
and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth".

Did only the Gods go down to create the earth or were there others who were 
not Gods?  And which Gods went down?

They were great angels, human spirits who are called gods because God adoption them as the Sons of God. The preeminent Son of God, king of the council of gods, is Jesus Christ, featured in Genesis asking this council for its approval in the Creation, I'm not sure how much they helped beyond their approval.

The angels and the Sons of Gods, have no origin in the Genesis Creation account, they already exist, like Job's Creation account, where the "Morning Stars sang together" and the "Sons of God shouted for joy" at the laying of the Earth’s foundations (Job 38:7).

In Genesis the "Speaker" (the Word/Logos/Christ) isn't just talking to himself or magicking things into existence by speech; he is issuing a formal directive to a subordinate group, "Let there be..." issuing a decree to the Council. The Book of Abraham, this is made explicit: "And the Gods said: Let there be light... and they [the Gods] organized the light." The verification "...and it was so"  the decree issued by the Speaker was carried out exactly as ordered by those assisting in the work. "...and He saw that it was Good" is an inspection of the work done by the Council.

The Genesis "Us" is the Divine Council in mainstream scholarship ("Let us make man in our image"). It has long been debated. Strict monotheists want it to be a plural majesty, but it ignores the Ancient Near Eastern context.

Genesis 1:26: The blueprinting of humanity modeled after the human looking gods.

Genesis 3:22: The concern "The man has now become like one of us" the gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 11:7: The intervention at Babel "Let us go down and there confound their language".

This isn't "God" alone, the elohim are a category of being in a divine family of El.

Daniel 4:17, the text explicitly mentions there are "gods", who are part of a judicial process where the Council deliberates and issue verdicts that affect Earth. "This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones." 

Job 1:16, says, "Fire of the Gods fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants." As the decree of the gods in heaven becomes a physical force on Earth. The Lord doesn't act in a vacuum; He puts the questions to the council, He hears their arguments.

Job 15:7–8, Eliphaz is rebuking Job for arrogance. His questions are deeply loaded with the "Council of Gods" theology, "Are you the first man ever born? Were you brought forth before the hills? Have you listened in the council of God?" The Adam Rishon is referencing a specific tradition found in the Midrash that Adam was a divine, quasi-angelic being who existed before the physical creation of the Earth. He is essentially asking, "Were you one of the Noble and Great spirits who stood with God during the creation?" The primordial sage Adam had a seat in the heavenly court and possessed wisdom because he was there when the blueprints were drawn. "The Council" (Sod Eloah) is a technical term, a private, confidential gathering of high-ranking officials. It refers to an "inner circle". Since Job wasn't the "First Man" or a member of that pre-mortal assembly, he has no right to question the "Fire of the Gods" that fell upon him

Midrash, Genesis Rabbah 8:7, the Jews address the question: "With whom did God take counsel?" The Midrash explicitly states that God consulted with the "souls of the righteous" (Nishmatan shel Tzaddikim) during the Creation. This suggests that in these "righteous ones" existed in a spiritual state before the physical world was organized. The Midrash implies that these spirits weren't just observers but were active participants in the "consultation" phase of humanity’s creation. 

Edited March 23 by Pyreaux

[rpn]

I don't think we know exactly how and who was physically involved in creating all of what we know as the earth.

[manol]

On 3/22/2026 at 1:03 PM, marineland said:

Did only the Gods go down to create the earth or were there others who were not Gods?

 

I believe that we all were participants.

As background for what I'm about to post, @Calm and I were discussing near-death experiences in another thread where she wrote this:

"I believe continuing revelation is necessary.  Multiple people sharing their experiences presents us with a fuller picture than we would receive if we considered revelation more one and done."

So in the spirit of presenting "a fuller picture", I hope you don't mind me sharing a near-death experiencer's perspective.  It is your choice of course whether or not to lend any credibility to it:

"The memory of participating in the creation of the solar system was definitely the most unexpected! It sounds like a sacrilege just to mention it. And yet, the collective consciousness that I was part of willed it into being.

"I am sorry I cannot tell you exactly how we did it. I remember that it was our collective will and focus that brought it into being. Matter simply formed at our command (one minute it was energy and the next it was matter). It formed in the shape that we willed it to be. I remember how important equilibrium was. Every particle had to be in perfect balance and harmony with the rest. All of the planets had to be in equilibrium with the sun and each other. There was great joy among us, for this creation had a purpose of the highest importance. It would allow us to experience mortality. I cannot tell you if every solar system in the universe was created the same way. I cannot comment about the big bang theory. All I know is that this solar system was created by a collective consciousness and this for a purpose of great importance. Each being of this collective consciousness asked to come to this earth to experience life knowing that each experience would benefit the collective. We each agreed to accomplish a certain mission...

"Actually, I stopped thinking in terms of ‘I’ and started thinking in terms of ‘we,’ we the collective consciousness. We had willed it into being. There was a plan in place. We would take turns coming down into mortality and experience life in all of its aspects and bring this experience back to the collective."

So according to what this person experienced, we created, or at least participated in the creation of, this earth and this solar system. 

 

 

Edited March 25 by manol

[marineland]

23 hours ago, manol said:

All I know is that this solar system was created by a collective consciousness

You mean an impersonal force as opposed to a personal God?

[manol]

1 hour ago, marineland said:

You mean an impersonal force as opposed to a personal God?

Your question is about something I quoted from the NDE experiencer's description, so I'm not in a position to answer your question with certainty. 

My understanding is that the "collective consciousness" she's talking about consists of all of us.   So, I think she's saying that it appeared to her that we all participated in the creation of this Earth. 

Here is the link to her NDE account, in case you'd like to read it in full: 

https://search.nderf.org/en/experience/6428

If you would prefer:  I can try to describe what I think she means by "a collective consciousness" in more detail, but I think it will be different from the traditional LDS viewpoint, and I don't want to unnecessarily muddy the waters with non-Church-aligned ideas when you're preparing to teach a lesson.   

Edited March 26 by manol

[Calm]

24 minutes ago, manol said:

when you're preparing to teach a lesson.   

I am missing where marineland is teaching a lesson.  To whom on what?

Edited March 26 by Calm

[manol]

15 minutes ago, Calm said:

I am missing where marineland is teaching a lesson.  To whom on what?

Good question!  And, I may well be mistaken!

My recollection is that some of @marineland's recent threads have been in the context of thoroughly preparing to teach a lesson, and I jumped to the conclusion that this was along the same lines.

Edited March 26 by manol

[Calm]

1 hour ago, manol said:

Good question!  And, I may well be mistaken!

My recollection is that some of @marineland's recent threads have been in the context of thoroughly preparing to teach a lesson, and I jumped to the conclusion that this was along the same lines.

I haven’t read all of his recent posts, so that might explain my confusion. 

[marineland]

On 3/26/2026 at 5:13 PM, manol said:

Here is the link to her NDE account, in case you'd like to read it in full: 

https://search.nderf.org/en/experience/6428

If you would prefer:  I can try to describe what I think she means by "a collective consciousness" in more detail, but I think it will be different from the traditional LDS viewpoint, and I don't want to unnecessarily muddy the waters with non-Church-aligned ideas when you're preparing to teach a lesson.   

Thanks. I'll check it.

[DonBradley]

Quote

They were great angels, human spirits who are called gods because God adoption them as the Sons of God. The preeminent Son of God, king of the council of gods, is Jesus Christ, featured in Genesis asking this council for its approval in the Creation, I'm not sure how much they helped beyond their approval.

Pyreaux,

Exactly!

The grammar supports this. After discussing the premortal spirits in Abraham 3, Abraham 4:1 says "and they, that is the gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth."

The only plausible referent for the "they" is the spirits discussed in Chapter 3.

Therefore "the gods" are the premortal spirits.

Don

[Pyreaux]

3 hours ago, DonBradley said:

Pyreaux,

Exactly!

The grammar supports this. After discussing the premortal spirits in Abraham 3, Abraham 4:1 says "and they, that is the gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth."

The only plausible referent for the "they" is the spirits discussed in Chapter 3.

Therefore "the gods" are the premortal spirits.

Don

Thanks Brother Bradley, it's nice to see you around these parts still. I often find myself leaning on your opinions a lot these days. In fact, I was just talking about you today. Talking to the Ward Secretary while waiting for the Bishop "You know Don Bradley?", he's like "Yah!" he was familiar with your work and spiritual journey, and he is a young man (or a youthful 30ish man) and had been inactive for a period. I'm certain he has absorbed a few podcasts with you and so I'm sure you helped him on his way back to activity.

Edited April 27 by Pyreaux