The Vision of the Redemption of the Dead

[ZealouslyStriving]

2 hours ago, telnetd said:

You seem to think they portray different time periods but you don't explain why.

Honestly, I've been having a hard time following your argument and what it has to do with what I am saying.

If I understand you correctly...

Yes, I believe the the Elder's from this Dispensation that pass away live in a different time period than the prophets who lived and testified of Christ before his coming. I believe the general righteous can be from any period of time.

Edited December 20, 2025 by ZealouslyStriving

[telnetd]

On 12/20/2025 at 3:39 PM, ZealouslyStriving said:

Honestly, I've been having a hard time following your argument and what it has to do with what I am saying.

If I understand you correctly...

Yes, I believe the the Elder's from this Dispensation that pass away live in a different time period than the prophets who lived and testified of Christ before his coming. I believe the general righteous can be from any period of time.

Let me try again.

Doctrine and Covenants 138:36-37 says "Thus was it made known that our Redeemer
spent his time during his sojourn in the world of spirits, instructing and preparing the 
faithful spirits of the prophets who had testified of him in the flesh. That they might 
carry the message of redemption unto all the dead, unto whom he could not go personally, 
because of their rebellion and transgression, that they through the ministration of his 
servants might also hear his words".

Out of all the faithful men and women in the spirit world where Jesus went after he 
died, why were only prophets commissioned to preach to those in darkness before
his resurrection?

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, telnetd said:

Let me try again.

Doctrine and Covenants 138:36-37 says "Thus was it made known that our Redeemer
spent his time during his sojourn in the world of spirits, instructing and preparing the 
faithful spirits of the prophets who had testified of him in the flesh. That they might 
carry the message of redemption unto all the dead, unto whom he could not go personally, 
because of their rebellion and transgression, that they through the ministration of his 
servants might also hear his words".

Out of all the faithful men and women in the spirit world where Jesus went after he 
died, why were only prophets commissioned to preach to those in darkness before
his resurrection?

Very Simple! Just as it is here on earth, the presiding prophets assigned by the Lord to oversee the missionary work in the spirit world are given power and authority by God to not only teach but also to call, instruct and organize other missionaries beside themselves to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to the spirits of the dead. When the Lord called his inspired apostles at the start of his ministry in the holy land, the church consisted of an intimate core of very few empowered disciples, but as time went on the Book of Acts bears witness to the fact the membership of the church eventually greatly increased, with far more missionaries assigned to teach the gospel than the original core quorum of twelve apostles who stood at the head of the church in its infancy. It’s pure common sense! Apostles and prophets of God are authorized and empowered to expand the ranks of the church and delegate some of their assignments to others that all the members of the church may become full and productive participants within the body of Christ. Simply put, authorized prophets of God have the power and right to call, organize and to also delegate some of their sacred duties to the ranks of God’s holy army.

Edited December 22, 2025 by teddyaware

[ZealouslyStriving]

3 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Very Simple! Just as it is here on earth, the presiding prophets assigned by the Lord to oversee the missionary work in the spirit world are given power and authority by God to not only teach but also to call, instruct and organize other missionaries beside themselves to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to the spirits of the dead. When the Lord called his inspired apostles at the start of his ministry in the holy land, the church consisted of an intimate core of very few empowered disciples, but as time went on the Book of Acts bears witness to the fact the membership of the church eventually greatly increased, with far more missionaries assigned to teach the gospel than the original core quorum of twelve apostles who stood at the head of the church in its infancy. It’s pure common sense! Apostles and prophets of God are authorized and empowered to expand the ranks of the church and delegate some of their assignments to others that all the members of the church may become full and productive participants within the body of Christ. Simply put, authorized prophets of God have the power and right to call, organize and to also delegate some of their sacred duties to the ranks of God’s holy army.

I'm glad that you get what he's arguing- because I'm still completely lost.

[teddyaware]

2 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

I'm glad that you get what he's arguing- because I'm still completely lost.

He’s wondering why a strict literal reading of the quoted verses appear to indicate that it’s only the deceased prophets who were given the assignment to preach the gospel to the dead. But due to the fact that telnetd doesn’t understand how the organization of the restored church of Christ works, he doesn’t realize that after prophets are called and assigned that they are almost always expected to call others to assist them in the accomplishment of their assignments. As experienced and knowledgeable Latter-Day Saints, it’s second nature for us to understand that one of the primary duties of the Lord’s prophets is to call and delegate authority to fellow laborers in order to assist them in the effective and fruitful execution of their labors.

Edited December 23, 2025 by teddyaware

[ZealouslyStriving]

8 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

He’s wondering why a strict literal reading of the quoted verses appear to indicate that it’s only the deceased prophets who were given the assignment to preach the gospel to the dead. But due to the fact that telnetd doesn’t understand how the organization of the restored church of Christ works, he doesn’t realize that after prophets are called and assigned that they are almost always expected to call others to assist them in the accomplishment of their assignments. As experienced and knowledgeable Latter-Day Saints, it’s second nature for us to understand that one of the primary duties of the Lord’s prophets is to call and delegate authority to fellow laborers in order to assist them in the effective and fruitful execution of their labors.

So he is ignoring the other verses I shared concerning Elders of this Dispensation who die and the righteous being called to testify in order to doggedly stick to his narrative?

[telnetd]

22 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Very Simple! Just as it is here on earth, the presiding prophets assigned by the Lord to oversee the missionary work in the spirit world are given power and authority by God to not only teach but also to call, instruct and organize other missionaries beside themselves to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to the spirits of the dead

Where does Doctrine and Covenants 138:36-37 say the prophets organized other
missionaries to preach the gospel in spirit prison during the death and resurrection
of Christ and after?

Edited December 23, 2025 by telnetd

[teddyaware]

On 12/23/2025 at 12:57 PM, telnetd said:

Where does Doctrine and Covenants 138:36-37 say the prophets organized other
missionaries to preach the gospel in spirit prison during the death and resurrection
of Christ and after?

Verse 57 asserts that the faithful elders (the missionaries) of the present dispensation are also called to preach the gospel to dead, not just the prophets.

57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead. (Doctrine and Covenants 138)

Edited December 26, 2025 by teddyaware

[ZealouslyStriving]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

Verse 57 asserts that the faithful elders (the missionaries) of the present dispensation are also called to preach the gospel to dead, not just the prophets.

57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead. (Doctrine and Covenants 138)

I've already pointed that out to him. He is choosing to ignore it in his effort to make whatever point he is trying to make.

[teddyaware]

10 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

I've already pointed that out to him. He is choosing to ignore it in his effort to make whatever point he is trying to make.

I’ve often wondered what kind of underlying psychological undercurrents would cause critical nonmembers of the church to obsessively participate on this discussion board, spending significant amounts of their precious time endlessly nitpicking away at minute details of the doctrines of the church when it would seem there are much healthier and productive ways for them to spend their time?

I believe one possible explanation for this obsessive behavior is they know in their hearts the doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints combine to form a much more logical, cohesive and reasonable system of belief than do the teachings their own religions, but because they appear to have a strong emotional need to not believe the restored church of Christ is true they repeatedly come back to the board in a never ending quest to persuade themselves to disbelieve what their heart is telling them is true.

For example, you’d think a reasonable believer in Christ would be thrilled beyond measure to learn that God has established a great missionary program to assure that the gospel is preached to all the dead in order to assure that the wonderful blessings of salvation will be fully and completely extended to all who have ever lived on the earth? But instead of rejoicing in the glorious knowledge that God really is a God of perfect love, and that his infinite and eternal love powerfully motivates him to assure that every single one of his beloved children will have a more than fair and thorough opportunity to learn the gospel of Jesus Christ and receive of his salvation, they instead feverishly try to find reasons to disbelieve that God is as wonderful loving, compassionate as the Latter-Day Saints say be is because, for whatever reasons, admitting that they’re wrong is too painful and devastating for them to bear.

The other possibility is that even thought their minds are somewhat resistant, it could be that they’re here because their spirits are trying to break through the mists of darkness that are clouding their thoughts.

Edited December 26, 2025 by teddyaware

[ZealouslyStriving]

30 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

I’ve often wondered what kind of underlying psychological undercurrents would cause critical nonmembers of the church to obsessively participate on this discussion board, spending significant amounts of their precious time endlessly nitpicking away at minute details of the doctrines of the church when it would seem there are much healthier and productive ways for them to spend their time?

I believe one possible explanation for this obsessive behavior is they know in their hearts the doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints combine to form a much more logical, cohesive and reasonable system of belief than do the teachings their own religions, but because they appear to have a strong emotional need to not believe the restored church of Christ is true they repeatedly come back to the board in a never ending quest to persuade themselves to disbelieve what their heart is telling them is true.

For example, you’d think a reasonable believer in Christ would be thrilled beyond measure to learn that God has established a great missionary program to assure that the gospel is preached to all the dead in order to assure that the wonderful blessings of salvation will be fully and completely extended to all who have ever lived on the earth? But instead of rejoicing in the glorious knowledge that God really is a God of perfect love, and that his infinite and eternal love powerfully motivates him to assure that every single one of his beloved children will have a more than fair and thorough opportunity to learn the gospel of Jesus Christ and receive of his salvation, they instead feverishly try to find reasons to disbelieve that God is as wonderful loving, compassionate as the Latter-Day Saints say be is because, for whatever reasons, admitting that they’re wrong is too painful and devastating for them to bear.

The other possibility is that even thought their minds are somewhat resistant, it could be that they’re here because their spirits are trying to break through the mists of darkness that are clouding their thoughts.

I'd say a tug o war between the two.

Mind and tradition desperately fighting against the whispering of the Spirit to their spirit urging them to grasp the iron rod (fullness of revelation) and come forth through the darkness.

[telnetd]

On 12/25/2025 at 11:07 PM, teddyaware said:

Verse 57 asserts that the faithful elders (the missionaries) of the present dispensation are also called to preach the gospel to dead, not just the prophets.

57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead. (Doctrine and Covenants 138)

What happened to all the righteous spirits in the paradise side of the spirit world,
mentioned in verses 38-49, whom Christ is said to have commissioned to preach the
gospel to those in darkness between his death and resurrection?

[The Nehor]

On 12/26/2025 at 9:47 AM, teddyaware said:

I’ve often wondered what kind of underlying psychological undercurrents would cause critical nonmembers of the church to obsessively participate on this discussion board, spending significant amounts of their precious time endlessly nitpicking away at minute details of the doctrines of the church when it would seem there are much healthier and productive ways for them to spend their time?

They don’t have Netflix so they have to make their own fun.

On 12/26/2025 at 9:47 AM, teddyaware said:

I believe one possible explanation for this obsessive behavior is they know in their hearts the doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints combine to form a much more logical, cohesive and reasonable system of belief than do the teachings their own religions, but because they appear to have a strong emotional need to not believe the restored church of Christ is true they repeatedly come back to the board in a never ending quest to persuade themselves to disbelieve what their heart is telling them is true.

Ah yes, the Romans 1 approach to belief. All the non-believers actually know it to be true but reject it out of sheer perverseness.

Quote

 

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised.Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

 

The truth of the gospel is plainly evident to all by default. Because these disgusting people didn’t recognize the one true God who is incredibly obvious (Paul was a really bad historian) God let them become perverse and that is the origin story of queer people, murderers, greed, and deception which are absent amongst those who are devoted to Christ (lmao). And especially gossip. Everyone knows Christian church members abhor gossip and it is never found within them.

So all these horrible sinners and gay people deserve destruction.

This is a common American Evangelical trope. You didn’t come up with this. You picked it up from apostate Christianity because of the culture and media you choose to consume.

On 12/26/2025 at 9:47 AM, teddyaware said:

For example, you’d think a reasonable believer in Christ would be thrilled beyond measure to learn that God has established a great missionary program to assure that the gospel is preached to all the dead in order to assure that the wonderful blessings of salvation will be fully and completely extended to all who have ever lived on the earth? But instead of rejoicing in the glorious knowledge that God really is a God of perfect love, and that his infinite and eternal love powerfully motivates him to assure that every single one of his beloved children will have a more than fair and thorough opportunity to learn the gospel of Jesus Christ and receive of his salvation, they instead feverishly try to find reasons to disbelieve that God is as wonderful loving, compassionate as the Latter-Day Saints say be is because, for whatever reasons, admitting that they’re wrong is too painful and devastating for them to bear.

Or they are just unconvinced by it. Saying that something would be pleasant to believe is not evidence that it is true. That is just wishful thinking on steroids. The doctrine of preaching to the dead exists because it is blatantly obvious that God isn’t fair to his children here in regards to giving all an opportunity to accept the gospel. Then a scenario pops up that we cannot observe that seems to neatly fix the whole problem.

Suppose a leader were to run a very unfair political and economic system that provides advantages to a few and disadvantages to a much larger group but also offers a retirement plan where everything will be made right and you will live in bliss afterwards. That would sound nice. Then you find out that the retirement plan takes place on an island and no one there can communicate back what is going on. Would you trust that system?

And yes, this is also a potential critique or any kind of heaven.

On 12/26/2025 at 9:47 AM, teddyaware said:

The other possibility is that even thought their minds are somewhat resistant, it could be that they’re here because their spirits are trying to break through the mists of darkness that are clouding their thoughts.

The mists of darkness being things like reason and logic?

[teddyaware]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

They don’t have Netflix so they have to make their own fun.

Ah yes, the Romans 1 approach to belief. All the non-believers actually know it to be true but reject it out of sheer perverseness.

The truth of the gospel is plainly evident to all by default. Because these disgusting people didn’t recognize the one true God who is incredibly obvious (Paul was a really bad historian) God let them become perverse and that is the origin story of queer people, murderers, greed, and deception which are absent amongst those who are devoted to Christ (lmao). And especially gossip. Everyone knows Christian church members abhor gossip and it is never found within them.

So all these horrible sinners and gay people deserve destruction.

This is a common American Evangelical trope. You didn’t come up with this. You picked it up from apostate Christianity because of the culture and media you choose to consume.

Or they are just unconvinced by it. Saying that something would be pleasant to believe is not evidence that it is true. That is just wishful thinking on steroids. The doctrine of preaching to the dead exists because it is blatantly obvious that God isn’t fair to his children here in regards to giving all an opportunity to accept the gospel. Then a scenario pops up that we cannot observe that seems to neatly fix the whole problem.

Suppose a leader were to run a very unfair political and economic system that provides advantages to a few and disadvantages to a much larger group but also offers a retirement plan where everything will be made right and you will live in bliss afterwards. That would sound nice. Then you find out that the retirement plan takes place on an island and no one there can communicate back what is going on. Would you trust that system?

And yes, this is also a potential critique or any kind of heaven.

The mists of darkness being things like reason and logic?

Your carnal mind can whistle past the graveyard as much as it wants, but it’s inevitable that you will eventually come to believe, and you will do so willingly and gratefully. There is only one way to escape this inexorable foreordained outcome, and that is to utterly reject Christ and his salvation and thus become a son of perdition.

31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—

32 They are they who are the sons of perdition of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;

33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;

34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—

35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.

36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—

37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;

38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.

39 For all the rest shall be brought by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made.

40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us—

41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;

42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him; (Doctrine and Covenants 76)

Edited December 28, 2025 by teddyaware

[The Nehor]

58 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

Your carnal mind can whistle past the graveyard as much as it wants, but it’s inevitable that you will eventually come to believe, and that you will do so willingly and gratefully. There is only one way to escape this inexorable foreordained outcome, and that is to utterly reject Christ and his salvation and thus become a son of perdition.

I find “one day when Daddy comes home you will see that I am right” rhetoric childish. Also how petulant and pathetic it makes God sound. I don’t think you are doing Him any favors.

Also this kind of ‘inevitable victory’ rhetoric is a path to wickedness. I get the impression sometimes that many Christians would gladly follow Satan if they thought the devils were going to win in the end. They just want to be on the side of the toughest bully.

[telnetd]

On 12/28/2025 at 2:10 PM, teddyaware said:

38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.

39 For all the rest shall be brought by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made.

40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us—

41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;

42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him; (Doctrine and Covenants 76)

Add a few more to those who are not redeemed. They don't have eternal life.

"And now, the resurrection of all the prophets, and all those that have believed in 
their words, or all those that have kept the commandments of God, shall come forth 
in the first resurrection; therefore, they are the first resurrection. They are raised to
dwell with God who has redeemed them; thus they have eternal life through Christ,
who has broken the bands of death. And these are those who have part in the 
first resurrection; and these are they that have died before Christ came, in their 
ignorance, not having salvation declared unto them. And thus the Lord bringeth about 
the restoration of these; and they have a part in the first resurrection, or have eternal
life, being redeemed by the Lord. And little children also have eternal life. But behold,
and fear, and tremble before God, for ye ought to tremble; for the Lord redeemeth
none such that rebel against him and die in their sins; yea, even all those that have
perished in their sins ever since the world began, that have wilfully rebelled against
God, that have known the commandments of God, and would not keep them; these
are they that have no part in the first resurrection. Therefore ought ye not to tremble?
For salvation cometh to none such; for the Lord hath redeemed none such; yea,
neither can the Lord redeem such; for he cannot deny himself; for he cannot deny
justice when it has its claim" (Mosiah 15:22-27).

[teddyaware]

2 hours ago, telnetd said:

Add a few more to those who are not redeemed. They don't have eternal life.

"And now, the resurrection of all the prophets, and all those that have believed in 
their words, or all those that have kept the commandments of God, shall come forth 
in the first resurrection; therefore, they are the first resurrection. They are raised to
dwell with God who has redeemed them; thus they have eternal life through Christ,
who has broken the bands of death. And these are those who have part in the 
first resurrection; and these are they that have died before Christ came, in their 
ignorance, not having salvation declared unto them. And thus the Lord bringeth about 
the restoration of these; and they have a part in the first resurrection, or have eternal
life, being redeemed by the Lord. And little children also have eternal life. But behold,
and fear, and tremble before God, for ye ought to tremble; for the Lord redeemeth
none such that rebel against him and die in their sins; yea, even all those that have
perished in their sins ever since the world began, that have wilfully rebelled against
God, that have known the commandments of God, and would not keep them; these
are they that have no part in the first resurrection. Therefore ought ye not to tremble?
For salvation cometh to none such; for the Lord hath redeemed none such; yea,
neither can the Lord redeem such; for he cannot deny himself; for he cannot deny
justice when it has its claim" (Mosiah 15:22-27).

In these latter-days, the doctrines of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ were revealed line upon line. precept upon precept, in increasingly greater and greater detail until a much more complete picture of God’s merciful and glorious plan of salvation was revealed. As a very significant event in that unfolding process, the Lord Jesus Christ revealed Doctrine and Covenants 76 so as to provide a much more complete understanding of God’s plan of salvation than the rudimentary presentation found in Mosiah 15. Through Doctrine and Covenants 76’s more expansive revelation of God’s designs, we learn that all but the sons of perdition (those who utterly refuse to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior) will obtain salvation in one of God’s glorious post-resurrection heavenly kingdoms. But if it makes you happier to believe that God is going to send the majority of his created human family to an endless hell of unimaginable torment and suffering, who am I to deprive you of your peace of mind?

32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;

33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;

34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—

35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.

36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—

37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;

38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.

39 For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Fatherbeforethe worlds were made.

40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us—

41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;

42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him; (Doctrine and Covenants 76)

[The Nehor]

27 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

In these latter-days, the doctrines of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ were revealed line upon line. precept upon precept, in increasingly greater and greater detail until a much more complete picture of God’s merciful and glorious plan of salvation was revealed. As a very significant event in that unfolding process, the Lord Jesus Christ revealed Doctrine and Covenants 76 so as to provide a much more complete understanding of God’s plan of salvation than the rudimentary presentation found in Mosiah 15. Through Doctrine and Covenants 76’s more expansive revelation of God’s designs, we learn that all but the sons of perdition (those who utterly refuse to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior) will obtain salvation in one of God’s glorious post-resurrection heavenly kingdoms. But if it makes you happier to believe that God is going to send the majority of his created human family to an endless hell of unimaginable torment and suffering, who am I to deprive you of your peace of mind?

I mean, that is what God supposedly taught back in the days of Jesus. Sort of. Except that hell came in later. And back in the days before the Babylonian exile the righteous and the wicked were both consigned to Sheol so God isn’t that interested in sharing details about the afterlife with us. Who knows? Next dispensation heaven might be Valhalla where we get to murder our enemies for all eternity. WOOHOO!

Edited December 30, 2025 by The Nehor

[telnetd]

On 12/30/2025 at 4:47 PM, teddyaware said:

In these latter-days, the doctrines of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ were revealed line upon line. precept upon precept,

36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—

37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;

38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.

You may want to consider this precept:

"... and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of 
the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the 
first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. 
Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and
of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years".

[ZealouslyStriving]

2 hours ago, telnetd said:

You may want to consider this precept:

"... and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of 
the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the 
first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. 
Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and
of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years".

  "Second death" = separation from the actual (physical) presence of God the Father.

  Hope that clears things up for you.

[telnetd]

On 1/1/2026 at 2:57 PM, ZealouslyStriving said:

  "Second death" = separation from the actual (physical) presence of God the Father.

  Hope that clears things up for you.

Yes. Alma 40:26 also says those who are not redeemed from the second death suffer what
is known as "everlasting death". 

[ZealouslyStriving]

4 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Yes. Alma 40:26 also says those who are not redeemed from the second death suffer what
is known as "everlasting death". 

The issue you are having is that you believe in Sola Scriptura and having the Bible interpret itself (according, of course, to ones particular theological viewpoint).

We believe in modern prophets given authority to interpret and clarify Scripture and doctrine.

We have, because of those modern prophets, a clearer idea of the overall plan of redemption for the human family- and are not obliged to accept your interpretation of our Scriptures that is informed by your creedal background.

[The Nehor]

34 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

The issue you are having is that you believe in Sola Scriptura and having the Bible interpret itself (according, of course, to ones particular theological viewpoint).

We believe in modern prophets given authority to interpret and clarify Scripture and doctrine.

We have, because of those modern prophets, a clearer idea of the overall plan of redemption for the human family- and are not obliged to accept your interpretation of our Scriptures that is informed by your creedal background.

Instead we wrest and twist the Bible to match our own prophet-informed beliefs despite the historical probability that the biblical writers were secretly sneaking in our modern doctrines in a kind of code into the text being pretty close to zero.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Instead we wrest and twist the Bible to match our own prophet-informed beliefs despite the historical probability that the biblical writers were secretly sneaking in our modern doctrines in a kind of code into the text being pretty close to zero.

I don’t have a problem with inspired reinterpretation of scripture as I see that as Nephi’s likening…making scripture more relevant to our times rather than insisting to view it in the same way over time.

It would be nice if there was more recognition when this goes on in explaining the text and not just in adapting it for personal use rather than assuming there’s only one way to read scripture.

With the Church’s opening up to using different translations of the Bible and greater use of scholarship, I think we will get there eventually.

[teddyaware]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Instead we wrest and twist the Bible to match our own prophet-informed beliefs despite the historical probability that the biblical writers were secretly sneaking in our modern doctrines in a kind of code into the text being pretty close to zero.

When the Apostle Peter testifies that the gospel was preached to the spirits of the dead who had rejected Christ and his gospel in the days of Noah, and this that they might be judged according to men in the flesh while living according to the will of God in the spirit world; and when the Apostle Paul testifies of the ordinance of baptism for the dead, and when he further reveals that in the resurrection there will be one glory likened to the brightness of the sun, a second glory likened to the brightest of the moon, and a third glory likened to the brightness of the various stars in the firmament; and when the Savior himself testifies that varying degrees of fruitfulness will be found among his believers, with some bringing forth yields of 100 fold, while others will bringing forth yields of 60 fold, and still others who will bring forth yields of 30 fold — I hereby contest validity of your conclusion and assert that the chance that Peter, Paul and the Lord didn’t know about the the more expansive and inclusive plan of salvation of the dead accepted by the Latter-Day Saints are fractionally less than one. And when one adds into the equation the verity that God is a perfect Being of infinite and eternal love, compassion, kindness, long suffering, empathy, justice and mercy,- the chances that Peter, Paul and the Lord were unaware of the same glorious plan of salvation presently found in Doctrine and Covenants Sections 76, 88, 128, 137 and 138 are zero. The only way to believe otherwise is to either deny the existence of God or accept the unsettling possibility that for some unfathomable reason God doesn’t feel bound to practice what he preaches.

Edited January 3 by teddyaware